Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 285

post #4261 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by maguire View Post
 

you will love the RE - 272, for me at least it is just as good as ER4...I still love mine. Bit of fiddling with insertion but I found over the ear the best that works for me.

Anyway this is the ER4 thread not the 272....But to my ears not much seperates them....But ofcourse I dont do EQ, or graphs etc etc just my ears tell me....:etysmile:

 

Not to veer from the er4s, but oh... my... goodness. I'm listening to the 272 as as write this. These things can bring tears to my eyes. I won't say they're better than the er4s, but they share a lot of similarities in sound, while being more open and natural sounding. When it comes to not using any eq at all, these would be my number one in a heartbeat. It stinks that they aren't in production, and the current models aren't as reference from what I've read. But if you like the er4s, these are a very nice take on a similarly neutral sound. Wow. Why in the world did they ever stop making these?

post #4262 of 4970
To me the red filters help but not completely tame the upper mid shout.

The RE272 is the technical best of the Hifiman iems but it was just too bright and splashy for me. I prefered the RE262, which also had superb bass.
post #4263 of 4970

If you have the chance, try listening to RE272 with a balanced amp, or balanced-ground amp like Meier Audio StepDance or iBasso T5.

post #4264 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

Not to veer from the er4s, but oh... my... goodness. I'm listening to the 272 as as write this. These things can bring tears to my eyes. I won't say they're better than the er4s, but they share a lot of similarities in sound, while being more open and natural sounding. When it comes to not using any eq at all, these would be my number one in a heartbeat. It stinks that they aren't in production, and the current models aren't as reference from what I've read. But if you like the er4s, these are a very nice take on a similarly neutral sound. Wow. Why in the world did they ever stop making these?


Blasphemer!

 

post #4265 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

If you have the chance, try listening to RE272 with a balanced amp, or balanced-ground amp like Meier Audio StepDance or iBasso T5.
Omg they can get better? Lol
I don't find them too bright personally, but like most they are tip and depth dependent for me. But not too bad. They don't isolate like the er4, they're discontinued, and there are far too many reports of poor cable quality. However, sound wise they are magnificent. The er4 is almost smoother, but the 272 is clearer and more dynamic sounding. Little things stand out better and sound more spacious. And the bass is better for me. I'm not even using eq! Me! The eq fanatic. Haha

Anyway, the er4 still has some awesome benefits and do extremely well with eq. Just wanted to let people know in case they like the er4 but might want a slightly diferent take on neutral.
Edited by luisdent - 5/1/14 at 8:15pm
post #4266 of 4970
Thread Starter 

RE272 is a very good IEM, but I found it lacking musicality, definition and resolution, especially in the treble. The lower treble is too recessed to my liking - definitely more recessed than neutral response IMO. It was also hard for me to a get a proper fit with RE272 due to their very shallow insertion. The treble often sounded peaky to me due to the improper fit. Also, the soundstage was somewhat strange with great width, but not much depth. to be fair, the ER4 doesn't have much depth either, but it makes up for this with its tremendous definition and micro detail. I found RE272 to be lacking in definition and low level resolution compared to the ER4. In particular, RE272 just didn't provide me with vivid outlines of individual instruments in the soundstage that ER4 provides to my ears. Simply, I found RE272 to be clear and fairly detailed and natural, but somewhat dull and blurry sounding. In regards to dynamics, yes RE272 does better, but not by much IMO - ER4 has adequate dynamics to my ears. RE272's only real advantage over the ER4 IMO is its bass depth and impact.

 

BTW, I found RE400 to be superior to any of Hifiman's previous IEMs, including RE272. RE400 has more micro detail, significantly more soundstage depth, a more realistic bass with better sense of impact, an even better sense of dynamics, a more natural frequency response and an overall fuller, richer, more realistic and involving sound to these ears. I also preferred RE262 to RE272, because the former sounds at least 95% identical to the latter and yet was priced far lower. I also thought RE262 was a little richer and more natural sounding than RE272 and its higher impedance made it more agreeable with a wider variety of sources.

 

Also, here are some graphs to back up my experience:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANRE262.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANRE272.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANIE400.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/EtymoticER4PT.pdf

 

I suppose the ER4 measurements actually disprove that ER4 is better than RE272 overall. RE272 (as well as the other two Hifimans) have noticeably less distortion and better bass extension than ER4, but ER4 seems to have the more balanced frequency response and significantly faster transients (compare the 300Hz square wave responses), especially versus RE262 and 272. Now, you can also see from the measurements that RE400 seems to be a technically superior IEM overall compared to RE262 and 272 - it has even lower distortion, a somewhat cleaner impulse response, a significantly nicer looking 300Hz square wave response (but still on the slow side, compared to ER4's 300Hz square wave response) and a seemingly more balanced frequency response too (no treble peaks, slightly more treble volume relative to bass and mids, although still a bit darker than neutral). It does appear to me that RE400 is also superior overall to the ER4, based on the graphs, but I think the graphs don't tell the whole story, especially because we are comparing different types of drivers here. The graphs can't capture ER4 armature driver's superior transients, definition and resolution IMO (ok, the 300Hz square wave response does to some extent and other measurements, like waterfall plots might too). I do feel that ER4, especially the S is superior to RE400 overall, but RE400 does have its advantages like a more believable soundstage and bass, and a fuller, richer sound, while maintaining very respectable transients resolution and definition, unlike the older Hifiman IEMs. That's why I keep both. I would not keep RE272 or 262 along with ER4 though, because I think the older Hifimans do not offer enough advantages over the Etys in sound.


Edited by Pianist - 5/1/14 at 9:32pm
post #4267 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
 

RE272 is a very good IEM, but I found it lacking musicality, definition and resolution, especially in the treble. The lower treble is too recessed to my liking - definitely more recessed than neutral response IMO. It was also hard for me to a get a proper fit with RE272 due to their very shallow insertion. The treble often sounded peaky to me due to the improper fit. Also, the soundstage was somewhat strange with great width, but not much depth. to be fair, the ER4 doesn't have much depth either, but it makes up for this with its tremendous definition and micro detail. I found RE272 to be lacking in definition and low level resolution compared to the ER4. In particular, RE272 just didn't provide me with vivid outlines of individual instruments in the soundstage that ER4 provides to my ears. Simply, I found RE272 to be clear and farily detailed and natural, but somewhat dull and blurry sounding. In regards to dynamics, yes RE272 does better, but not by much IMO - ER4 has adequate dynamics to my ears. RE272's only real advantage over the ER4 IMO is its bass depth and impact.

 

BTW, I found RE400 to be superior to any of Hifiman's previous IEMs, including RE272. RE400 has more micro detail, significantly more soundstage depth, a more realistic bass with better sense of impact, an even better sense of dynamics, a more natural frequency response and an overall fuller, richer, more realistic and involving sound to these ears. I also preferred RE262 to RE272, because the former sounds at least 95% identical to the latter and yet was priced far lower. I also thought RE262 was a little richer and more natural sounding than RE272 and its higher impedance made it more agreeable with a wider variety of sources.

 

Just my 2 cents of course.

 

Strange. I don't know if it's my fit or something else, but I hear the same level of detail and "micro details" in both. However, the 272 have more of a natural sound to me in terms of spaciousness. I'm comparing them side by side with no eq at the moment. I would say to my ears, the 272 sounds more "open" like you are actually outside if you're listening to forest sounds (weird example). However, I can, listening side by side, hear that the er4s seems more clinically flat. But I think the 272 has more depth into the sound. The er4s sounds flat in terms of depth.

 

Another weird example. If I stuck my arm out it would be like hitting a wall of sound with the er4s. I feel like I could stick my arm out and into the depth of the sound with the 272. However, the more I listen critically, the more I can hear how the 272 treble has small dips and peaks, however, they almost seem strategic. I think the dip in the treble adds to that spaciousness. But for me, it doesn't really lose any details because the dip isn't that large. But what it does gain is crispness in attack. Guitars strumming and picking for instance stands out more and sort of jumps out of a 3d space. The er4s would have the guitars perfectly balanced in the mix, but in a flatter more dull way, relatively speaking.

 

I'm not sure which is better, but I find the 272 to be almost more relaxing due to the openness I hear. However, the er4s is really smooth. I always say it, but it's just silky smooth. It's almost like every iem manufacturer uses a cut somewhere in the treble or mid/treble to give the impression of more soundstage and depth. But with the 272 it's like they did it the perfect amount as to not ruin the sound while also achieving the extra depth. I'll keep listening to both and see if the 272 grows on me even more or if I start picking it apart. :-P


Edited by luisdent - 5/1/14 at 9:09pm
post #4268 of 4970
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

Strange. I don't know if it's my fit or something else, but I hear the same level of detail and "micro details" in both. However, the 272 have more of a natural sound to me in terms of spaciousness. I'm comparing them side by side with no eq at the moment. I would say to my ears, the 272 sounds more "open" like you are actually outside if you're listening to forest sounds (weird example). However, I can, listening side by side, hear that the er4s seems more clinically flat. But I think the 272 has more depth into the sound. The er4s sounds flat in terms of depth.

 

Another weird example. If I stuck my arm out it would be like hitting a wall of sound with the er4s. I feel like I could stick my arm out and into the depth of the sound with the 272. However, the more I listen critically, the more I can hear how the 272 treble has small dips and peaks, however, they almost seem strategic. I think the dip in the treble adds to that spaciousness. But for me, it doesn't really lose any details because the dip isn't that large. But what it does gain is crispness in attack. Guitars strumming and picking for instance stands out more and sort of jumps out of a 3d space. The er4s would have the guitars perfectly balanced in the mix, but in a flatter more dull way, relatively speaking.

 

I'm not sure which is better, but I find the 272 to be almost more relaxing due to the openness I hear. However, the er4s is really smooth. I always say it, but it's just silky smooth. It's almost like every iem manufacturer uses a cut somewhere in the treble or mid/treble to give the impression of more soundstage and depth. But with the 272 it's like they did it the perfect amount as to not ruin the sound while also achieving the extra depth. I'll keep listening to both and see if the 272 grows on me even more or if I start picking it apart. :-P

 

I was never impressed with the depth and soundstage of RE272, perhaps because I was spoiled by headphones and IEMs that are much better in those aspects. ER4 is definitely not a step up from RE272 in soundstage size and depth, but to my ears, ER4 is a clear step up in definition which in turn makes them image more realistically, providing a clearer sense of space than RE272 does.

 

If you want to hear a truly excellent soundstage and imaging for an IEM, I recommend that you give RE400 a try. Those are a real step up from both RE272 and ER4 in soundstage depth and imaging IMO. RE400 doesn't have the razor sharp definition of the ER4, but it is more defined than RE272 and has an uncanny ability to give sounds a very convincing 3D quality. I was floored by RE400's holographic soundstage the first time I heard them and it still impresses me now.

 

BTW, I added quite a bit of extra rant to my previous post in case you haven't noticed...


Edited by Pianist - 5/1/14 at 9:56pm
post #4269 of 4970
Just reread it, and i would agree with most of that. If anything these are pretty similar to each other compared to most other iems. Ironically i used to claim the distortion of the pfe was inaudible. After comparing so many iems and eq'ing them i find i can very easily hear it now. Not sure if the er4s's is audible, but the re series are sure lower in that regard.

So you find the 400 superior? Is there anything different about the fit? I'n just curious, because it can make such a big difference. I'll have to try one sometime..
post #4270 of 4970
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Just reread it, and i would agree with most of that. If anything these are pretty similar to each other compared to most other iems. Ironically i used to claim the distortion of the pfe was inaudible. After comparing so many iems and eq'ing them i find i can very easily hear it now. Not sure if the er4s's is audible, but the re series are sure lower in that regard.

So you find the 400 superior? Is there anything different about the fit? I'n just curious, because it can make such a big difference. I'll have to try one sometime..

 

I think fit is probably what made the biggest difference for me with RE400 and what likely lead to the impression of a much better soundstage compared to RE272 and 262. RE400 is much smaller and fit much deeper than RE2** series did. It's noticeably smaller and easier to fit than RE0 too. The new small black dual flange silicone tips may have made the difference too. I think you definitely need to try RE400 if you like RE272 much. Fang himself stated that he believes RE400 to be superior sounding to all his previous IEM efforts.

post #4271 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Omg they can get better? Lol
 

 

Let just put it this way: RE272 alone = really good; RE272 + StepDance = the only way to listen. I guess the most similar analogy I can think of is listen to the normal JH13 Pro and the JH13 Pro FreqPhase.

post #4272 of 4970

Pianist you must have had a magical set of RE-400s, it seems impossible to me that anyone could say they have better detail than the 272, the difference between them is massive by earphone standards to my ears. Not having agao, just think it's amazing how differently we can hear things.


Edited by redrich2000 - 5/2/14 at 1:18am
post #4273 of 4970

Well, call me crazy, but I just talked with hifiman, and since the 272 is discontinued I'm going to try the re400. If it's similar I'll be a happy man, if not they said they would take it back for any reason within 30 days. *crosses fingers*. I expect it to be a different signature based on reviews, but it sounds like it might actually be a good thing. Slightly more bass, which may or may not be a good thing depending on how it's done. Anyway, good or bad at least I'll know for sure in a few days. :-)

 

On another note, I'm back to comply tips with my er4s. I change tips like I change songs. :-P ha. But I'm finding now that I prefer them for the comfort as usual, but also the sound. I'm getting a more balanced sound, and this time I'm making sure to squish them in a way that the opening is completely un-covered by any foam. It seems to be very clear and unaffected by the tips. It may reduce some of the treble a touch, but I'm not really noticing it without a side by side comparison (my triple flange are beyond worn and tossed out). Anyhow, I'm finding the er4s sounds surprisingly good with the comply and no eq using green filters. I still prefer red, but I could totally do no eq with the and comply. Things seem smoother with them to me, but of course making sure they are sufficiently deep. I actually get them deep now with comply than any other tip...

post #4274 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Omg they can get better? Lol
 

 

Let just put it this way: RE272 alone = really good; RE272 + StepDance = the only way to listen. I guess the most similar analogy I can think of is listen to the normal JH13 Pro and the JH13 Pro FreqPhase.

 

You evil man. I want this setup.

post #4275 of 4970
At luisdent, can you post your EQ for making the PFE sound like an ER-4S?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you...