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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 240

post #3586 of 10020
I almost don't want to let these go haha. They're not without flaws but "satisfying" is a word that very much comes to mind when listening to these. And that's big IMO.

I'll try to get a bit if of notes together but I can't guarantee anything with my current schedule.
post #3587 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I almost don't want to let these go haha. They're not without flaws but "satisfying" is a word that very much comes to mind when listening to these. And that's big IMO.

I'll try to get a bit if of notes together but I can't guarantee anything with my current schedule.


Almost?

post #3588 of 10020
I’ve received a loaner Noble 4 universal from a friend and have some instant first impression, as well as comparisons with the ER-4S this morning. My initial reaction is that this is the best Wiz designed universal to date. I’ve previously heard the Heir 4.ai, 3.ai, Tzar90 and Tzar350 and I think the Noble 4 is superior to all those previous offerings in both sound quality as well as looks. The Noble universals, in all black with crown logo, look much better than the dark wood of the Heir universals. Plus the stock cable is very nice too- supple, flexible but with a little bit of heft compared to the standard epic style removable cable; although I do not like the 45 degree connector- give me straight or give me a right angle; don’t give me a wishy, washy 45’er! And of course don't get me started on the Ety cable...

The first question from the Ety crowd, I’m sure, is, “is it neutral?” Well sort of. I suppose it is neutralish in the sense of the DBA02 being neutralish. For the most part I find the bass and midrange fairly neutral but the treble is definitely boosted, and I find the Noble 4 a good bit brighter than the ER-4S (in both green and red filtered versions). The treble has a peak, using test tones, between 6k and 6.5k that gives it this brightness and it also slightly accentuates sibilance (but nothing unmanageable) and negatively affects treble timbre IMO. The ER-4S comes across as much smoother and even polite in treble with better treble timbre in comparison.

The midrange of the Noble 4 is the best part- it’s clear, articulate and neither harsh nor lush, or sweet or any other descriptor of colored mids. In this regard it shares some similarity with the ER-4S with red filters (with green I find the ER-4S just a tad hot in the 2k-4k range).

For the most part the Noble 4 bass is pretty neutral but it sounds a little more rounded, rather than flat, across the bass frequencies compared the ER-4S. I don’t mean that it has a mid bass hump, but I do find it ever so slightly rounded where mid/upper bass is a little louder in volume than the deeper bass, whereas the ER-4S sounds completely flat across the bass spectrum to me. Both seem to roll off in sub bass at a similar point with test tones but due to the slight rounding in the Noble 4, it gives the perception of rolling off sooner than the ER-4S when music is playing. The flatness of the ER-4S bass, IMO, is the secret to its great bass texture, which is better in the Ety than in the Noble.

The Noble 4 sounds taller in headstage to me than the ER-S4 but I really think width is similar; it’s just that the Noble comes across as more upfront and closer to me than the Ety. The Ety has better imaging and coherency, creating more space around the images, whereas the Noble’s images sound more compressed in contrast. This may be impacted by the treble peak in the Noble 4, as the ER-4S sounds deeper to me b/c treble cues aren’t placed so forward in the headstage. Your perception may vary.

Overall I find the ER-4S more accurate, more neutral and overall smoother than the Noble 4, which I find brighter, peakier, punchier and bolder sounding (the Noble 4 has harder edged notes). This is of course how I hear the two and I can completely understand if someone finds the Noble 4 more enjoyable or more musical, while still maintaining a neutralish presentation.
post #3589 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I’ve received a loaner Noble 4 universal from a friend and have some instant first impression, as well as comparisons with the ER-4S this morning. My initial reaction is that this is the best Wiz designed universal to date. I’ve previously heard the Heir 4.ai, 3.ai, Tzar90 and Tzar350 and I think the Noble 4 is superior to all those previous offerings in both sound quality as well as looks. The Noble universals, in all black with crown logo, look much better than the dark wood of the Heir universals. Plus the stock cable is very nice too- supple, flexible but with a little bit of heft compared to the standard epic style removable cable; although I do not like the 45 degree connector- give me straight or give me a right angle; don’t give me a wishy, washy 45’er! And of course don't get me started on the Ety cable...

The first question from the Ety crowd, I’m sure, is, “is it neutral?” Well sort of. I suppose it is neutralish in the sense of the DBA02 being neutralish. For the most part I find the bass and midrange fairly neutral but the treble is definitely boosted, and I find the Noble 4 a good bit brighter than the ER-4S (in both green and red filtered versions). The treble has a peak, using test tones, between 6k and 6.5k that gives it this brightness and it also slightly accentuates sibilance (but nothing unmanageable) and negatively affects treble timbre IMO. The ER-4S comes across as much smoother and even polite in treble with better treble timbre in comparison.

The midrange of the Noble 4 is the best part- it’s clear, articulate and neither harsh nor lush, or sweet or any other descriptor of colored mids. In this regard it shares some similarity with the ER-4S with red filters (with green I find the ER-4S just a tad hot in the 2k-4k range).

For the most part the Noble 4 bass is pretty neutral but it sounds a little more rounded, rather than flat, across the bass frequencies compared the ER-4S. I don’t mean that it has a mid bass hump, but I do find it ever so slightly rounded where mid/upper bass is a little louder in volume than the deeper bass, whereas the ER-4S sounds completely flat across the bass spectrum to me. Both seem to roll off in sub bass at a similar point with test tones but due to the slight rounding in the Noble 4, it gives the perception of rolling off sooner than the ER-4S when music is playing. The flatness of the ER-4S bass, IMO, is the secret to its great bass texture, which is better in the Ety than in the Noble.

The Noble 4 sounds taller in headstage to me than the ER-S4 but I really think width is similar; it’s just that the Noble comes across as more upfront and closer to me than the Ety. The Ety has better imaging and coherency, creating more space around the images, whereas the Noble’s images sound more compressed in contrast. This may be impacted by the treble peak in the Noble 4, as the ER-4S sounds deeper to me b/c treble cues aren’t placed so forward in the headstage. Your perception may vary.

Overall I find the ER-4S more accurate, more neutral and overall smoother than the Noble 4, which I find brighter, peakier, punchier and bolder sounding (the Noble 4 has harder edged notes). This is of course how I hear the two and I can completely understand if someone finds the Noble 4 more enjoyable or more musical, while still maintaining a neutralish presentation.

 

Thanks for your perspective and I enjoyed reading it and I can very much agree on many points.. Both are neutral, within a range of what is considered neutral. The Ety-ER4-S (the environmental color of filter) I do experience to be more on analytically/accurate side of the board and the N4 on the more musical side within the neutral range. That's what you said too.. so does this mean that we agree on conclusion? :-)

 

So technically the ER4-S IMO as well as your opinion performs better but the N4 offers what I experience as an overall more pleasant view of the ocean from a nice beachfront seating without having to boggle my mind about the texture of every single wave or how it got there :-) Then, when I really need to boggle with the detail of a certain rock on the beach I will anytime pick up the ETY's since I'm way too lazy to drag my ass down to the beach and even bend over to pick up the rock.. But that is just me..

 

I really and awfully truly enjoy both units as I tend to have a strong preference for a relative neutral sounding in ear presentation and I feel they kind of complement each other within this, more or less broad range. I will also add that I really like the Ety's ("much, all relative speaking") better when amplified by a relative decent source whereas I so far feel that the N4 performs pretty much at a similar level with and without any type of amplification.

post #3590 of 10020

what sound signature differences do the filters make? the ones ety sells?

 

is there anyone that has graphs showing the frequency differences between filters?

post #3591 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post
 

what sound signature differences do the filters make? the ones ety sells?

 

is there anyone that has graphs showing the frequency differences between filters?

 

If you're looking for a valid scientific proof for the differences? Sorry, but I highly doubt that you will find it. I could be very much wrong..but so far I haven't been introduced to the opposite.

 

 I believe that this topic was explore somewhere in this link, although I can't find the exact post, but based on one/multiple measurement of one unit etc.

 

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/search/label/Etymotic%20Research


Edited by Jupiterknight - 1/16/14 at 8:03pm
post #3592 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiterknight View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

 
what sound signature differences do the filters make? the ones ety sells?

is there anyone that has graphs showing the frequency differences between filters?

If you're looking for a valid scientific proof for the differences? Sorry, but I highly doubt that you will find it. I could be very much wrong..but so far I haven't been introduced to the opposite.

 I believe that this topic was explore somewhere in this link, although I can't find the exact post, but based on one/multiple measurement of one unit etc.

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/search/label/Etymotic%20Research
Wait, what? Rin had some graphs that clearly showed the sound differences of the filters. They're in this thread,
post #3593 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Wait, what? Rin had some graphs that clearly showed the sound differences of the filters. They're in this thread,

 

Correctly, but measured with his single unit and the filters he had in hand. Absolutely, not questioning his effort since I have deep respect for Rin and may actually want to hug him if I ever met him in person.. you too.. if you feel comfortable about this :-)

 

 I was merely asking if he was looking for a purely scientific, valid proof/opinion between the differences or just what we/some very much can agree on a subjective level, but yet not completely correct..

post #3594 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiterknight View Post
 

 

Correctly, but measured with his single unit and the filters he had in hand. Absolutely, not questioning his effort since I have deep respect for Rin and may actually want to hug him if I ever met him in person.. you too.. if you feel comfortable about this :-)

 

 I was merely asking if he was looking for a purely scientific, valid proof/opinion between the differences or just what we/some very much can agree on a subjective level, but yet not completely correct..

right, i am really a subjective person and dont normally care to see data sheets as everyone hears things subjectively so one persons love for A filter might not be a lover of B filter.

 

so i was just curious for something to look at that objectively compared the 2 to see if there was any differences in the frequency responses or if the frequency curve changed.

 

i mean for instance, i have some beater HF5's and i put a knowles brown filter in and i noticed a good difference, but obviously its subjective, and i unfortunately cant see if there really is any measureable differences in the filter changes in the frequency spectrum.

post #3595 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post
 

what sound signature differences do the filters make? the ones ety sells?

 

is there anyone that has graphs showing the frequency differences between filters?

 

There's a good introduction here, and Rin has detailed measurement comparisons here. Here's a quick to the point picture:

 

post #3596 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post
 

 

There's a good introduction here, and Rin has detailed measurement comparisons here. Here's a quick to the point picture:

 

thats a good start, but from what i see, it doesnt look as smooth as the ones that etymotic uses. seems like there are alot more dips and spikes....maybe ety has it down for their own product at least, thats just my opinion, well opinion from look at the graphs.

 

i mean to be honest i almost feel like the er4p and s are like the pyramids of giza, they pretty much are perfect and have been for a long time, trying to reinvent the wheel really.

 

i got my er4s in today and i definitly respect BOTH the P and the S. they both have their niches

post #3597 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

There's a good introduction here, and Rin has detailed measurement comparisons here. Here's a quick to the point picture:


thats a good start, but from what i see, it doesnt look as smooth as the ones that etymotic uses. seems like there are alot more dips and spikes....maybe ety has it down for their own product at least, thats just my opinion, well opinion from look at the graphs.

i mean to be honest i almost feel like the er4p and s are like the pyramids of giza, they pretty much are perfect and have been for a long time, trying to reinvent the wheel really.

i got my er4s in today and i definitly respect BOTH the P and the S. they both have their niches
in fairness to the red filters, they have a similar smoothness when you consider that the "dips" are actually reductions in the areas most people consider problematic to begin with. The rest i agree are not as accurate as the ety greens. But the red offer a slight improvement with no eq imo. The orange are a bit less accurate in treble, yes, but for those wanting more bass they offer a reasonable balance...
post #3598 of 10020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post
 

right, i am really a subjective person and dont normally care to see data sheets as everyone hears things subjectively so one persons love for A filter might not be a lover of B filter.

 

so i was just curious for something to look at that objectively compared the 2 to see if there was any differences in the frequency responses or if the frequency curve changed.

 

i mean for instance, i have some beater HF5's and i put a knowles brown filter in and i noticed a good difference, but obviously its subjective, and i unfortunately cant see if there really is any measure able differences in the filter changes in the frequency spectrum.

Sorry, I may have introduced more worries to you or on your behalf than intended.. but I highly recommend you to try out any other filter's like the red in particular  vs. green on our own and then do your own judgment.

 

I think it is worth it (not too expensive), I purely mean to test it out/explore this for a few $$ more and see what you prefer. Reading the random graphs, although I highly respect and love those/efforts included, is not going to fully answer your question. Maybe try your HF5 with a red filter and you may like it, they have the green filter right?  I have no clue what the red filter would do to the HF5 but maybe "tame" their upper mid range/treble forwardness slightly and an increased perception of bass impact ? if you are looking for that it may work for you... (I do have a pair of HF.. so I'm not completely second guessing)

 

Please, do not take me to seriously and accept that I have no clue what I'm talking about..

post #3599 of 10020

Makes me smile boyz I tell ya.

 

Adding JDS C421 (OP2227) to IHIFI 760 line out is the best thing I could of done for my ER4S. I've discovered new layers of detail and hidden extension in vocals. Crisp, clean overly transparent. It's like shooting off to heaven briefly with the isolation and SQ combined, :tongue: nothing but the music around me. The only thing stopping me using this full time is the cost of foam tips as I'm not fond of the triple flange silicon. Because foam deteriorates rather quickly I just sit the rig on my mantle piece and stare in awe most of the time. Use it as a bench mark for neutral / reference sound. It's really pleasing to listen to, also satisfying. If only I could find a silicon tip that performed like foam. :(  

Hail the long living ER4S...and C421. 

The rig weighs about 500grams so it's not pocketable more stationary.

post #3600 of 10020

Help me! this is real bad, nobody told me about this when I'm buying my ER4P, there should be some disclaimer on the first post at least. I just couldn't listen to any other IEM anymore! I tried to love my PFE232 back by changing filters, ear tips, including ety triple flanges! damn nothing works, I just couldn't love the PFE sound. Back to ER4P(or S with adapter), I'm really home, and I want to keep listening to songs nothing else. This is addiction, this is madness!

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