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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 230

post #3436 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

ER4S loan has arrived.

Through the iPhone 5S:
Impressive sound. A bit different than I had expected over the years. Has its share of problems though that are very quickly apparent.

Wish I could run it through the 4S > Quickstep but it's on loan. I'll try the 4S and the D100 II and see what's up.

Most unexpected part:
Surprisingly heavy and dense images.

 

Looking forward to your impressions! I curious as to whether the mids sound louder to you than midbass or treble using tones. Also, you might want to check out some useful eq settings we've posted in this thread. They're basically a 6-7dB boost at 20Hz, and a 1-2dB boost at ~7.5Hz (this area tends to differ from user to user). Luisdent might be using a cut somewhere too. Overall though the eq needed is quite minimal imo, less than anything else I've heard except maybe the MH1. It would be really cool if you were able to try red filters, but I realize it is a loan...

post #3437 of 4810

Here's my latest EQ settings for ER4S:

 


Like previously it's based on Rins measurements, including compensation for quarter wavelength resonance and the new Olive-Welti target. This time I took some ideas from a new room correction package and tuned the thresholds manually by listening to various sources. You can expect a "bigger" tonality with smoother highs.


Edited by markanini - 12/26/13 at 11:29pm
post #3438 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by markanini View Post

Here's my latest EQ settings for ER4S:





Like previously it's based on Rins measurements, including compensation for quarter wavelength resonance and the new Olive-Welti target. This time I took some ideas from a new room correction package and tuned the thresholds manually by listening to various sources. You can expect a "bigger" tonality with smoother highs.

I'll give it a try, but honestly I'm having trouble seeing what you're trying to do. I have a few questions. If you're using Rin's measurements, shouldn't you be lowering 5k and raising 7k? What about sub-bass? Also your Q values seem extremely narrow, like 1/7th BW according to the conversion chart on this page. Also I'm pretty sure the ER4 only extends to ~17k, and I see you have a 19k correction.

Like I said I'll try your setting because I'm curious to hear it, and to learn a little about how you're applying room correction here. Thanks for sharing. smily_headphones1.gif
post #3439 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


I'll give it a try, but honestly I'm having trouble seeing what you're trying to do. I have a few questions. If you're using Rin's measurements, shouldn't you be lowering 5k and raising 7k? What about sub-bass? Also your Q values seem extremely narrow, like 1/7th BW according to the conversion chart on this page. Also I'm pretty sure the ER4 only extends to ~17k, and I see you have a 19k correction.

Like I said I'll try your setting because I'm curious to hear it, and to learn a little about how you're applying room correction here. Thanks for sharing. smily_headphones1.gif

It's no accident the correction doesn't correspond to any single ER4S graph Rin has published. You can definitely disregard the 19.4K band, these erroneous bands show up in the last 1/2 octave for different reasons. I'll make blogpost detailing which targets and measurements are considered later that will give you an idea of why. Each band improves the accuracy, but no more than the previous band, so you could leave out for example 5-10 and get a comparable result. The max 6dB correction threshold I've chosen makes the bass linear down to 70Hz. You could extrapolate from my previous posts how much boost to use below that. It's 2-2.5dB by 40Hz, I wouldn't bother personally.


Edited by markanini - 12/27/13 at 4:07am
post #3440 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Looking forward to your impressions! I curious as to whether the mids sound louder to you than midbass or treble using tones. Also, you might want to check out some useful eq settings we've posted in this thread. They're basically a 6-7dB boost at 20Hz, and a 1-2dB boost at ~7.5Hz (this area tends to differ from user to user). Luisdent might be using a cut somewhere too. Overall though the eq needed is quite minimal imo, less than anything else I've heard except maybe the MH1. It would be really cool if you were able to try red filters, but I realize it is a loan...

He lives!!!
Q values gnarl, Q values. Don't make me do detective work. biggrin.gif

All I have to say so far is that we've come a long way in oh 22 years in this game rolleyes.gif

On a more serious side note that really says nothing about their performance, there is no way that you could EQ the ER4S to sound anything like the UERM except tonally. The overall tuning characteristics are just so incredibly different.
post #3441 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by markanini View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I'll give it a try, but honestly I'm having trouble seeing what you're trying to do. I have a few questions. If you're using Rin's measurements, shouldn't you be lowering 5k and raising 7k? What about sub-bass? Also your Q values seem extremely narrow, like 1/7th BW according to the conversion chart on this page. Also I'm pretty sure the ER4 only extends to ~17k, and I see you have a 19k correction.


Like I said I'll try your setting because I'm curious to hear it, and to learn a little about how you're applying room correction here. Thanks for sharing. smily_headphones1.gif
It's no accident the correction doesn't correspond to any single ER4S graph Rin has published. You can definitely disregard the 19.4K band, these erroneous bands show up in the last 1/2 octave for different reasons. I'll make blogpost detailing which targets and measurements are considered later that will give you an idea of why. Each band improves the accuracy, but no more than the previous band, so you could leave out for example 5-10 and get a comparable result. The max 6dB correction threshold I've chosen makes the bass linear down to 70Hz. You could extrapolate from my previous posts how much boost to use below that. It's 2-2.5dB by 40Hz, I wouldn't bother personally.

I'll post my eq settings again later.
post #3442 of 4810
The Centrance HiFiM8 is even more at $700 but I just got mine and it sure scales up the sound of my ER4p's (with p to s convertor). Adjustable output impedance, a subtle bass or treble adjustment, balanced power for other cans, other flexibility. I have happy ears.
post #3443 of 4810

O.k.  I'm sorry, but I'm too lazy to write these settings down.  Here's a screenshot though using q-values.  This is that same setting I use on my fuze, and as far as I can tell the values transfer almost identically.  I have a low-shelf filter on the fuze from 30hz and down, to boost the very lowest bass a few db based on graphs, but the audible difference is negligible as it's so low.

 

 

I use these settings with my pfe small silicone tips (so awesome), but again, as far as I can tell they sound identical with the large triple flange.  I think any tight, deep silicone tips should sound similar.  I mean deep though. :-P  As long as you get them deep and fully sealed you should be good, but the deeper the better.  I swear every time i wear them they get deeper.  It's insane.  Ha!  Look at this photo:

 

AppleMark

 

Soon I will become one with the er4s and never need to take them out.  I'll just have them permanently embedded in my ear canal.

 

Anyway, I've never heard anything as good as the er4s with this eq personally.  The second best is the sony mh1, yea, yeah, give me a break already, I know.  But it's true.  They might even have more perfect mids, but the treble of the er4s is just more smooth to me.  Not overall per se, but in the general detailed sense.  I find the mh1 is almost "airy" in a bad way sometimes, but it really seems to depend on my mood (not even the music).  Sometimes they sound perfect.  Whereas the er4s is a bit less "airy" sounding, but smoother to my ears.  But after listening to the mh1, the "body" of the bass and mids seems slightly more "hollow" in comparison.  So each has it's strengths.  But with my eq the er4s is very very awesome to me.  It's my top sound quality iem of all.  My mh1 eq makes those more awesome as well by flattening out the bass, but I can never get the treble "perfectly smooth", at least as it sounds sometimes when I'm not in the right mood.  It's a strange beast.

 

Anyway, try these eq settings.  I think they are a must.  :-P  Please let me know what you think.  Give them a while to get used to the difference and report back.

 

The great thing is that you can listen to a beautiful acoustic track like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUXZThUx3Tc&hd=1

and it sounds so beautiful and natural.

 

Then you can listen to something like this (youtube doesn't do it justice):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR38z2Eb3hM

 

and it kicks butt and romps the bass with er4s goodness.

 

p.s. I haven't found a multi point parametric eq audio unit on the mac yet for a system wide setting.  vst doesn't work with the audio routing app, so i need to use an eq insert for each point, but it's ultimately the same thing.


Edited by luisdent - 12/27/13 at 11:23pm
post #3444 of 4810

I currently have an ER4P and an ER4S adapter. I'm interested in trying out the ER4B, but don't have the budget to track down and purchase an official one. So, I was wondering if anyone here has experience with one of these and can confirm that it works: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300621573822

 

If not, are there other options for an ER4B adapter?

 

Regardless of whether the ER4B version of the adapter is legitimate, I'm interested in switching to a different cable to make overear wear easier and further reduce cable noise. Would the Shure adapter and a Shure style cable accomplish this? I'm currently considering this one as it is both the cheapest one I've found with a 90 degree plug and looks to have solid strain reliefs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181285206289

 

Finally, would the Shure adapter and cable cause any issue with achieving proper insertion depth? I've read about the Shure cable connectors being a bit bulky.


Edited by OceanGuru - 12/30/13 at 11:50am
post #3445 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markanini View Post

Here's my latest EQ settings for ER4S:





Like previously it's based on Rins measurements, including compensation for quarter wavelength resonance and the new Olive-Welti target. This time I took some ideas from a new room correction package and tuned the thresholds manually by listening to various sources. You can expect a "bigger" tonality with smoother highs.

I'll give it a try, but honestly I'm having trouble seeing what you're trying to do. I have a few questions. If you're using Rin's measurements, shouldn't you be lowering 5k and raising 7k? What about sub-bass? Also your Q values seem extremely narrow, like 1/7th BW according to the conversion chart on this page. Also I'm pretty sure the ER4 only extends to ~17k, and I see you have a 19k correction.

Like I said I'll try your setting because I'm curious to hear it, and to learn a little about how you're applying room correction here. Thanks for sharing. smily_headphones1.gif
I must have missed this. Awesome that you can convert values. I'll have to try it.
post #3446 of 4810
Huge ER4S surprise #2:
Shockingly not critical of terrible quality files. I was floored.

The sadness:
Too deep a fit creates a suction seal that absolutely hurt my ear with any movement of the IEM.

The confirm:
Best isolation I have ever... heard...
Edited by vwinter - 12/31/13 at 6:44am
post #3447 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

Huge ER4S surprise number 2:

Shockingly not critical of terrible quality files. I was floored.

The sadness:
Too deep a fit creates a suction seal that absolutely hurt my ear with any movement of the IEM.

The confirm. Best isolation I have ever... heard...

 

You should try the Westone star tips. I found the medium sized one, while still going deeper than my personal ideal, was less invasive than the tri-flange, still sealed well and offered great isolation. 

post #3448 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

Huge ER4S surprise #2:
Shockingly not critical of terrible quality files. I was floored.

The sadness:
Too deep a fit creates a suction seal that absolutely hurt my ear with any movement of the IEM.

The confirm:
Best isolation I have ever... heard...

I guess you have sensitive ear canals like me. I've had luck with Klipsch bi-flanges wrt maintaining deep insertion, but you give up some isolation. Another thing that helps is not wearing them for extended periods at first, work your way up. When you get irritation take a break for a day or two.

post #3449 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by markanini View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

Huge ER4S surprise #2:
Shockingly not critical of terrible quality files. I was floored.

The sadness:
Too deep a fit creates a suction seal that absolutely hurt my ear with any movement of the IEM.

The confirm:
Best isolation I have ever... heard...

I guess you have sensitive ear canals like me. I've had luck with Klipsch bi-flanges wrt maintaining deep insertion, but you give up some isolation. Another thing that helps is not wearing them for extended periods at first, work your way up. When you get irritation take a break for a day or two.

 

+1 on all of that.  However, my ears are still sensitive sometimes.  I can wear the er4s with large triflange as deep as the pictures I've shown for hours with no problems.  Other times I swear I wear them like that for 30 minutes and my ear has a bad pain the entire next day.  Perhaps the tip pushed against my canal just enough in one case and not the other?  I don't know.  I just know that they do have the unfortunate side effect of sometimes being very painful.  It's too bad, because otherwise I think they're the best iem i've ever heard.

 

My solution is to use the small silicone tips from my pfe series.  Those don'e cause any pain and seal even easier in general.  However, they are more prone to popping out of the seal and losing the perfect response because of it.  So with those I usually only wear them when I'm not moving at all (sitting at computer, lying in bed).  Otherwise they just don't work.

 

Absolutely best isolation ever.  Better than any earplug I've ever used too.  Noticeably.

 

As for criticality of tracks, I never found this a problem like some people.  I think if you don't have a perfect fit and therefore not a perfect bass response, the treble will then exaggerate any sibilance and flaws in that regard.  However, with a perfect fit and especially with a bit of sub bass boost eq, I don't find this at all.


Edited by luisdent - 12/31/13 at 11:14am
post #3450 of 4810

foam!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no suction+ comfy and less microphonics, who cares about those trebles, I never invited them anyway.

seriously the real challenge is to get deep enough with foam, else the sound really suffers.

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