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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 227

post #3391 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

1 driver 1...what?! Did you read that twice before you posted?
Yes, BA drivers are poor at thoroughly representing the whole range of frequencies. That was the whole point of adding drivers and coming up with hybrid moving armatures.......to overcome that gross deficiency.

My points and real life experiences are well noted above. Onlookers can decide for themselves who's opinion is more convincing.
Keep drinking that Etymotic Kool-Aid!
post #3392 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Yes, BA drivers are poor at thoroughly representing the whole range of frequencies. That was the whole point of adding drivers and coming up with hybrid moving armatures.......to overcome that gross deficiency.

My points and real life experiences are well noted above. Onlookers can decide for themselves who's opinion is more convincing.
Keep drinking that Etymotic Kool-Aid!

Before I or some others point out what was wrong with your statement on "1 frequency", perhaps you should define what you mean by 1 frequency.
post #3393 of 4970

Actually adding drivers is about efficiency as well as load distribution.  Problem is most only get easier to drive while completely wrecking the nice response, impedance and phase curve a single driver regardless of type.  In the case of a ba you use series resistance and acoustic filters to swing/extend the response.  When you go multi driver that gets tricky and performance becomes about crossover network competence.  Which is where that big old scoop comes from.  Better than Heir used to be though, they knocked entire bands right off, not down... gone!

post #3394 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post
 

Actually adding drivers is about efficiency as well as load distribution.  Problem is most only get easier to drive while completely wrecking the nice response, impedance and phase curve a single driver regardless of type.  In the case of a ba you use series resistance and acoustic filters to swing/extend the response.  When you go multi driver that gets tricky and performance becomes about crossover network competence.  Which is where that big old scoop comes from.  Better than Heir used to be though, they knocked entire bands right off, not down... gone!

This right here +1

 

Not having absolute phase and including crossover implementations by utilizing multi-drivers is the #1 destroyer of cohesive music. Even the best crossover isn't perfect.

post #3395 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Yes, BA drivers are poor at thoroughly representing the whole range of frequencies. That was the whole point of adding drivers and coming up with hybrid moving armatures.......to overcome that gross deficiency.

My points and real life experiences are well noted above. Onlookers can decide for themselves who's opinion is more convincing.
Keep drinking that Etymotic Kool-Aid!

This has nothing to do with etymotic. The W4 has no better bandwidth than several single BAs... You must be talking about something else.

Edit: reference above was to a stock W4. Which is what I believe you were referring to.
Edited by vwinter - 12/15/13 at 9:41pm
post #3396 of 4970

Westone 4 isn't to bad, I think a little over priced for what you get though. it lacks detail and impact/dynamics next to ER4S. As another member mentioned good for relaxing with some acoustic music, try throwing EDM, dubstep, pop at W4 and it's a rather lifeless dull experience. I owned both at the same time...only one man stayed, guess which one. I think the confusion with W4 is mainstream consumers purchase the highest number Westone "4" assuming they're getting the best there is, however it's not at all the case. Something like Dunu DN-1000 hybrid for $200 can wipe the floor with W4's lack of detail and semi passable instrument separation for it's price. 

A little over rated but sure....it's ok....

post #3397 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by H20Fidelity View Post
 

Westone 4 isn't to bad, I think a little over priced for what you get though. it lacks detail and impact/dynamics next to ER4S. As another member mentioned good for relaxing with some acoustic music, try throwing EDM, dubstep, pop at W4 and it's a rather lifeless dull experience. I owned both at the same time...only one man stayed, guess which one. I think the confusion with W4 is mainstream consumers purchase the highest number Westone "4" assuming they're getting the best there is, however it's not at all the case. Something like Dunu DN-1000 hybrid for $200 can wipe the floor with W4's lack of detail and semi passable instrument separation for it's price. 

A little over rated but sure....it's ok....

 

The best thing I found about the 4r is that it handled eq very well for me.  I had it eq'd to sound better than the er4s in my opinion overall, but the eq was complex and did not easily translate across devices.  So while "some" multi driver iems may allow more eq modification without the sound falling apart, that's not always the case.  Once I eq the er4s as best as I can, it sounds better than anything.  It's really impressive.  The same goes for the mh1.  Many will knock it, but with a proper bass eq it sounds at the top of the list. *puts arm up to protect from rock throwing*

post #3398 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

The best thing I found about the 4r is that it handled eq very well for me.  I had it eq'd to sound better than the er4s in my opinion overall, but the eq was complex and did not easily translate across devices.  So while "some" multi driver iems may allow more eq modification without the sound falling apart, that's not always the case.  Once I eq the er4s as best as I can, it sounds better than anything.  It's really impressive.  The same goes for the mh1.  Many will knock it, but with a proper bass eq it sounds at the top of the list. *puts arm up to protect from rock throwing*

The problem with the W4 I tried was that it had this wacky soundstage presentation that I couldn't quite put my finger on, and it made the mids sound a bit off in a wholistic way. This was both stock and modded.

Also, looks like I'll have an ER4S for a quick audition in a few days. This 80 year long hype train is finally arriving at my stop. biggrin.gif
Edited by vwinter - 12/15/13 at 9:46pm
post #3399 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

The best thing I found about the 4r is that it handled eq very well for me.  I had it eq'd to sound better than the er4s in my opinion overall, but the eq was complex and did not easily translate across devices.  So while "some" multi driver iems may allow more eq modification without the sound falling apart, that's not always the case.  Once I eq the er4s as best as I can, it sounds better than anything.  It's really impressive.  The same goes for the mh1.  Many will knock it, but with a proper bass eq it sounds at the top of the list. *puts arm up to protect from rock throwing*


I don't use EQ, however not against it in anyway, I rely on different sources, cables, interconnects, amps, etc to try and bring the sound close as possible to my liking which really lessens your options. Westone 4 was good enough for me to buy a pair if that means anything, they do have a specific vibe to them, but the experience was short lived because I would A/B my T-Peos H-200 preferring their clarity and bass impact. Really my preference took control of the situation.  All depends what you're looking for in signature, but having 4 drivers doesn't really make it particularly  special from what I heard. ER4S could blow W4 across the room in raw detail extension imo. *boom*

My ER4S are on their back from Hawaii after being on audition, I've been without them for a month or two! 

post #3400 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

Also, looks like I'll have an ER4S for a quick audition in a few days. This 80 year long hype train is finally arriving at my stop. biggrin.gif

I think the ER4 is the longest standing headphone of all time, 20 years of praise is no joke. Looking forward to your impressions :) Try some red filters too if you can!

post #3401 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

The best thing I found about the 4r is that it handled eq very well for me.  I had it eq'd to sound better than the er4s in my opinion overall, but the eq was complex and did not easily translate across devices.  So while "some" multi driver iems may allow more eq modification without the sound falling apart, that's not always the case.  Once I eq the er4s as best as I can, it sounds better than anything.  It's really impressive.  The same goes for the mh1.  Many will knock it, but with a proper bass eq it sounds at the top of the list. *puts arm up to protect from rock throwing*


Oh goodie the MH1, again.

post #3402 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

I think the ER4 is the longest standing headphone of all time, 20 years of praise is no joke. Looking forward to your impressions smily_headphones1.gif Try some red filters too if you can!

Looking forward to seeing what it can do smile.gif The red filters, unfortunately, aren't gonna happen though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post


Oh goodie the MH1, again.


Lol. One of those commas in there is really throwing me off.
post #3403 of 4970
Wow it's getting crazy around here lol that's why I love this hobby.. I have to say that I at least love the passion you folks have.. I just think it's a matter of personal choice.. These are both great iems.. I think one.. The er4s or p will sound good out of the ipod or phone where I think the w4r don't.. It's like having a really nice pair of high end B&w homes speaker and driving them out of a 300 Sony receiver... Just my opinion of course.. :-)
post #3404 of 4970
Quote:
Oh goodie the MH1, again.

Just tellin' it like it is! :-P

It really is personal preference. No question there. But i believe accuracy is for the most part science. You calibrate a tv with calibration equipment and measurements. You can set the colors how you like them, but accuracy is based on standards and adjusting to meet those standards based on measurements. It's not much different in audio.
post #3405 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Just tellin' it like it is! :-P

It really is personal preference. No question there. But i believe accuracy is for the most part science. You calibrate a tv with calibration equipment and measurements. You can set the colors how you like them, but accuracy is based on standards and adjusting to meet those standards based on measurements. It's not much different in audio.


My issues with the MH1 are of of quality control and overall design. Ergonomically they are a disaster and because of the difficulties involved in recabling them (removing that back cap is only the beginning of what can charitably be called a nightmare) they are at best considered and advanced diy project. The time investment required in them makes IEM's which are a little more pricey look like a bargain.

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