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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 177

post #2641 of 4677

I'm not crazy after all!  I was saying i don't like my ipod touch 5g vs. the other ipods.  Just look at these:

 

http://en.goldenears.net/16149

http://en.goldenears.net/13182

 

The ipod touch has less high treble.  Maybe this is the only reason it sounds different, but I would say it is EXACTLY the difference I hear.  A loss of the very very high crispness to a very small degree.  I know from testing I can hear a .5db difference, and I know i'm not hearing this because I'm consciously aware of it.  It has bugged me since before I knew it.  In fact I thought the response graphs were flatter.  It irritated me enough that I started only using the touch with my LOD and C5 amp, which sounds perfect.

 

Anyway, just saying for anyone super critical out there and considering a new touch.  The graph doesn't show it being a huge difference, and the difference might not only be frequency response, but for someone very discerning there are definitely times that the touch is noticeably less "micro" detailed.

post #2642 of 4677

Luis, how are you getting LOD out from a 5G? Do you have the lightning-to-30pin connector/cable in between?

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

I'm not crazy after all!  I was saying i don't like my ipod touch 5g vs. the other ipods.  Just look at these:

 

http://en.goldenears.net/16149

http://en.goldenears.net/13182

 

The ipod touch has less high treble.  Maybe this is the only reason it sounds different, but I would say it is EXACTLY the difference I hear.  A loss of the very very high crispness to a very small degree.  I know from testing I can hear a .5db difference, and I know i'm not hearing this because I'm consciously aware of it.  It has bugged me since before I knew it.  In fact I thought the response graphs were flatter.  It irritated me enough that I started only using the touch with my LOD and C5 amp, which sounds perfect.

 

Anyway, just saying for anyone super critical out there and considering a new touch.  The graph doesn't show it being a huge difference, and the difference might not only be frequency response, but for someone very discerning there are definitely times that the touch is noticeably less "micro" detailed.

post #2643 of 4677
Yes. Lod to 30pin adapter.
post #2644 of 4677

Got it. Btw, here are more measurements you might want to check out. They seem to suggest different.

 

iPod Touch 5G: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm

 

iPhone 5: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

post #2645 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by brofeelgood View Post

Got it. Btw, here are more measurements you might want to check out. They seem to suggest different.

iPod Touch 5G: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm

iPhone 5: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm
the iPhone was a bad example. I've never used one. I just grabbed the first fr graph I could find from another idevice. Maybe it's all if the touch devices like the iPhone? It doesn't really matter I guess. The point was that there is an audible difference between every other ipod and the 5g that I have. And that sucks. It's not placebo. I can easily differentiate it. I wouldn't buy another 5g ever. I don't get why it's lower quality, but it is. Sort of a waste of an otherwise amazing device in my opinion. It's still excellent, but I consider most iPods pretty much reference quality. But not this one.
Edited by luisdent - 9/22/13 at 11:23pm
post #2646 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
 

Random thoughts.

 

Been a HF'er for nearly 5 years and though I often feel I've got used to so much BS and nonsense posted in these forum threads, there are times when I still react (mostly inwardly) to said BS & nonsense. Apologies if anyone feels uncomfortable about some of my comments — they're not directed at anyone in particular, but this is more like speaking out loud to myself... but in public—in a thread I've unexpectedly come to feel rather comfortable. So, here goes:

 

I cannot believe how good the ER4S sounds out of the HPO of my Touch. Time and time again I see people insisting the 4S needs an amp — I say yes, you do, if you want to damage your hearing even more than you would with the iPod Touch at full blast (the 4S gets very, very loud at 75% of the volume slider (not the case if you have one of the volume-capped EU DAPs, of course, which I don't). To claim that an amp improves the actual sonics... well, I have my serious doubts...

 

The nonsensical exaggeration about portable amps & DACs… and all the parroting, people repeating and spreading the same nonsense.

 

The nonsensical exaggeration about audio file formats (lossy vs lossless and now also HiRes & DSD)… and all the parroting, people repeating and spreading the same nonsense.

 

The nonsensical exaggeration and cliché that full-size headphones sound (so much) better than (good) earphones… and all the parroting, people repeating and spreading the same nonsense.

 

The nonsensical exaggeration re: TOTL IEMs… and all the parroting, people repeating and spreading the same nonsense.

 

The nonsensical exaggeration re: custom IEMs… and all the parroting, people repeating and spreading the same nonsense.

 

The nonsensical exaggeration re: aftermarket cables… and all the parroting, people repeating and spreading the same nonsense — so refreshing to not see (expensive) aftermarket cables being discussed in this thread.

 

So many people remain very ignorant not just of the so-called placebo effect but other aspects that make us believe we actually hear things (so) differently.

 

It's great to see Etymotic charge very reasonable prices for their accessories and several of their IEMs; great to learn they offer a two-year warranty and that their CS and out of warranty service is excellent. The ER4S is not cheap (though when you actually look at the likes of Westone, Shure, Earsonics, etc...), but build seems (and is reported to be) solid; accessories are more than adequate and packaging is so right (unpretentious, professional, yet quite nice, really up my street [I'd change the small carrying case, though, but that's really a non-issue]). And the added option to eventually get extra filters at very reasonable prices is simply brilliant.

 

The ER4S sounds so good that I've happily gone through the fairly short fit-adapting period and have even got used to using the 'dreaded' shirt-clip already which, thank God, has completely got rid of microphonics.

 

The best audio purchase I've made in a long time.

 

I'm not much for the term "synergy" myself, and tend to try to keep things simple as far as source components and material goes. After all, my iphone has been my primary source with 320kbps tracks for many years. My attitude has been more to pick something i like, and stick with it - not to go out to buy a specific amp/dac/whatever to attenuate some feature of a pair of headphones i don't like (my understanding of how synergy tends to be applied). If i don't like the way a pair of phones sound with whatever sources i have, i'd likely move on to something else. I like to think of these components as completely transparent and not even consider them as variables to the sound - however impossible that is.

 

That being said, all debates aside, I gotta say I'm definitely hearing a difference with my new HRT microStreamer playing lossless files - particularly with the ER-4S. Whatever the cause (files, amp section ect), they definitely sound different than out of my iPhone 4 with 320kbps files, even after A/B testing and I'm liking it a lot. I wouldn't go so far as saying distinct, but enough for me to like the ER-4 much more than i did before. You know, for what it's worth.

 

I can say, at the moment, I no longer have any problem with the bass quality/quantity with the stock green filters - at least not with what i've been listening to tonight (Royal Concept EP). I'm surprised!

 

https://soundcloud.com/the-concept-band/the-concept-d-d-dance


Edited by dnullify - 9/22/13 at 11:37pm
post #2647 of 4677

I'm sorry to hear it's not working out for you - oh the curse of having more sensitive ears!

 

On another note, did you get a chance to compare HPO > C5 (effectively double amping) versus LOD > C5? I have seen claims that for newer iDevices there is no additional benefit to bypassing the internal amp since:

 

1) the internal amp introduces very little distortion

2) the DAC in the converter isn't very efficient

 

My own experiments (non scientific, just based on listening) on an iPhone 5 seem to suggest such is the case. Or it could be my hearing is far from perfect :(

post #2648 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by brofeelgood View Post

I'm sorry to hear it's not working out for you - oh the curse of having more sensitive ears!

On another note, did you get a chance to compare HPO > C5 (effectively double amping) versus LOD > C5? I have seen claims that for newer iDevices there is no additional benefit to bypassing the internal amp since:

1) the internal amp introduces very little distortion
2) the DAC in the converter isn't very efficient

My own experiments (non scientific, just based on listening) on an iPhone 5 seem to suggest such is the case. Or it could be my hearing is far from perfect frown.gif
I did compare HO to LOD. HO is a bit more spacious sounding with the C5, but the difference is very minute. It doesn't fix the micro detail issue. The LOD with C5 does. Again, a very slight increase in spaciousness or instrument distinction. But overall not much difference. It's basically removing the micro detail problem. However, I've since started using a fuze v2 and won't go back until they make a 128 touch with no audio issues.

I now use the c5 essentially for an impedance corrector to lower any sources to <2 ohms. Plus any minor improvements it might add. I've never heard any negative impact. In fact the impedance factor really helps things.
post #2649 of 4677
So i switched back to reds. The greens just aren't for me. They're great, yes, but the red take the slight edge off of things from the green that make me feel fatuiged. Now that i'm using no eq at all and the triple flange tips, this is more obvious. The reds sound just amazing. I missed them and was trying to get used to the greens, but even with my bass eq the treble just had that slight edge to it.

I think i'm a huge red fan. :-P the orange might be tied though. I feel like the red are perfect treble. The red reduce the problematic areas of the green with absolutely no negative effect for me. In fact there are other improvements. The mid treble area is lowered allowing the high treble to be more present. This brings instrument clarity out and has the effect of making things jump out more distinctly. The orange have the same effect, but more bass, or technically less everything-above-the-bass.. This gives the orange a very slight warm tilt. I find the orange need absolutely no eq to sound great with everything. Some bass focused music is a little lacking in sub bass still, but not as much as the green. The orange might technically be lacking the slightest lowest sub bass still, but i find no eq neccessary with any music at all.

So if you want a bit more bass while retaining almost all of the treble quality, orange it is. If you want superb treble with just a tad sub bass missing, red it is...

I also found an easier way to equalize pressure with the triple flange tips. I screw them in like normal, but then pull them down a lot. Sort of like a see saw, which, if done right, breaks the seal just enough to equaluze pressure and fill the bass in. Otherwise, it's a back and forth screwing motion the whole time trying to retain balance while progressively inserting them deeper.

UPDATE: i forgot to add that the ety filters go in much easier than the metal filters. The metal filters have a fair amount of tightness, while the plastic ety filters are generally looser in nature. In fact, i successfully removed an ety green filter with tweezers causing no harm (wasn't easy), this would probably be impossible with the tightness of the metal filters.
Edited by luisdent - 9/23/13 at 3:57pm
post #2650 of 4677

Received the red and orange filters from Luis yesterday. I've been only listening to the orange filters to far and think they reduce the lower treble/upper mids too much while leaving the upper treble untouched making the sound a bit unbalanced and sibilant. Will try the red filters later.

post #2651 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

So i switched back to reds. The greens just aren't for me. They're great, yes, but the red take the slight edge off of things from the green that make me feel fatuiged. Now that i'm using no eq at all and the triple flange tips, this is more obvious. The reds sound just amazing. I missed them and was trying to get used to the greens, but even with my bass eq the treble just had that slight edge to it.

I think i'm a huge red fan. :-P the orange might be tied though. I feel like the red are perfect treble. The red reduce the problematic areas of the green with absolutely no negative effect for me. In fact there are other improvements. The mid treble area is lowered allowing the high treble to be more present. This brings instrument clarity out and has the effect of making things jump out more distinctly. The orange have the same effect, but more bass, or technically less everything-above-the-bass.. This gives the orange a very slight warm tilt. I find the orange need absolutely no eq to sound great with everything. Some bass focused music is a little lacking in sub bass still, but not as much as the green. The orange might technically be lacking the slightest lowest sub bass still, but i find no eq neccessary with any music at all.

So if you want a bit more bass while retaining almost all of the treble quality, orange it is. If you want superb treble with just a tad sub bass missing, red it is...

I also found an easier way to equalize pressure with the triple flange tips. I screw them in like normal, but then pull them down a lot. Sort of like a see saw, which, if done right, breaks the seal just enough to equaluze pressure and fill the bass in. Otherwise, it's a back and forth screwing motion the whole time trying to retain balance while progressively inserting them deeper.

UPDATE: i forgot to add that the ety filters go in much easier than the metal filters. The metal filters have a fair amount of tightness, while the plastic ety filters are generally looser in nature. In fact, i successfully removed an ety green filter with tweezers causing no harm (wasn't easy), this would probably be impossible with the tightness of the metal filters.

 

Wow how funny, I just put the greens back in today too and my impressions are EXACTLY the same. To add to these thoughts, I think the greens make certain vocals a little too shrill, with less body compared to the reds. Love love love the reds. 

post #2652 of 4677

Received the black 2-flang recommended earlier in this thread and cut the stem down to where the IEM end is flush with the tip and they sound amazing and are also very comfortable.  Brought back a bit of the crisp highs toned down by the red filters and of course leaving the nice solid bass.  Better sound then my custom fits for sure and no microphonics or sound changes when I open/close my mouth or move my jaw, eat, etc... very nice! Also way easier to insert/remove.

 

The only thing I wish now was the cable was lighter and slightly shorter (cutting off 6" would be perfect).  Is the 100 ohm resistor inside the molding where the cable splits?  Wondering if I could have the cables replaced with something lighter.


Edited by groovyd - 9/23/13 at 5:36pm
post #2653 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Wow how funny, I just put the greens back in today too and my impressions are EXACTLY the same. To add to these thoughts, I think the greens make certain vocals a little too shrill, with less body compared to the reds. Love love love the reds. 
Reds all the way.
post #2654 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovyd View Post

Received the black 2-flang recommended earlier in this thread and cut the stem down to where the IEM end is flush with the tip and they sound amazing and are also very comfortable.  Brought back a bit of the crisp highs toned down by the red filters and of course leaving the nice solid bass.  Better sound then my custom fits for sure and no microphonics or sound changes when I open/close my mouth or move my jaw, eat, etc... very nice! Also way easier to insert/remove.

The only thing I wish now was the cable was lighter and slightly shorter (cutting off 6" would be perfect).  Is the 100 ohm resistor inside the molding where the cable splits?  Wondering if I could have the cables replaced with something lighter.

These tips yes?



They're working very well for me also. It seems necessary for me to make the ends of the tips sit flush with the ends of the barrel. For some reason it allows me to push for a deeper fit. If the tips are slightly longer I can't get them to comfortably sit past the second bend of the ear canal.

Apuresound makes cables for the ER4S (I think they still do) here. I'd actually love to get one but I'm not spending $180. I also wish the cable was lighter, but I use a shirt clip for the gym which completely takes care of the issue. The cable does feel strong enough to take some abuse, which is nice.
post #2655 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovyd View Post
 Is the 100 ohm resistor inside the molding where the cable splits?  Wondering if I could have the cables replaced with something lighter.

Yes, the resistors are in the plastic split.

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