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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 173

post #2581 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


I laughed pretty good at that one. :-P

As for comply tips, if price were no object they would be my preferred tips. But at the prices they charge, you might as well bend over when you insert them. I would only ever buy them when they have a 25% off sale. Even then, I'm not sure yet. I'm still using the tips from my pfe112, so I haven't had to buy any...

I want to try those clear tips. They sound interesting. I don't get why people get so stubborn about iems. I think the EarPods are amazon earphones. For $30 they are pretty darn good. I'd never use them over my er4s unless I was looking to hear my environment more, but they're better than most people will admit in that they're like the er4s where there are no major flaws. The response isn't as good, but there are no spikes or big drops in the response. And even the sony ex85lp are extremely competent with a little bass cut eq.

For me though the er4s is it so far. Not always by a large margin. The pfe112 are amazing! At half the cost they are at least 90% the quality. But the er4s just really nails almost everything and does nothing bad. The only thing I'd want most is just a little sub bass, but that's easy to fix in a few ways. Most other iems would need eq treatment equivalent to a Picasso painting to sound close to the er4s.

Blah blah. You get the picture. I think we need another group buy. Hahaha

I wonder what Etymotic could do in the way of pricing on a group order........

post #2582 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

I wonder what Etymotic could do in the way of pricing on a group order........

I don't know. Do they do that?
post #2583 of 4667

Never hurts to ask.  I do know that they sometimes send 25% codes when accessories or earphones are purchased directly through them via phone or online.  

post #2584 of 4667
Now I'm curious. Can someone who has a new set of er4s take a photo of the filters in the earphone? I think I'm putting them in the correct direction based on online photos...
post #2585 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Now I'm curious. Can someone who has a new set of er4s take a photo of the filters in the earphone? I think I'm putting them in the correct direction based on online photos...

 

post #2586 of 4667
Just letting you guys know the ER4S and iBasso DX50 pair together overly well, plenty of driving power on medium gain, setting. it's still a little buggy at the moment, but keep your ears open, as it sounds really rich in detail and accurate in timbre.
post #2587 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Now I'm curious. Can someone who has a new set of er4s take a photo of the filters in the earphone? I think I'm putting them in the correct direction based on online photos...

 

The Ety green (plastic) replacement filters that I have in possession look *almost* the same to me from either end. Instructions that came with them didn't specify which end has to go in first, so I don't believe they are uni-directional.

 

That said... in the interests of research, I just removed the original filters from my ER4. The mesh/cloth that's nearer the filter edge is on the side of the eartip, just like the way you inserted yours.

 

Update: Ok, I've been squinting into the little bugger for the last one hour and my tired old eyes aren't sure anymore if it's asymmetrical. If there's a difference, it's got to be a millimetre or less.


Edited by brofeelgood - 9/19/13 at 8:09am
post #2588 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by brofeelgood View Post

The Ety green (plastic) replacement filters that I have in possession look *almost* the same to me from either end. Instructions that came with them didn't specify which end has to go in first, so I don't believe they are uni-directional.

That said... in the interests of research, I just removed the original filters from my ER4. The mesh/cloth that's nearer the filter edge is on the side of the eartip, just like the way you inserted yours.

Update: Ok, I've been squinting into the little bugger for the last one hour and my tired old eyes aren't sure anymore if it's asymmetrical. If there's a difference, it's got to be a millimetre or less.

Mine are definitely closer on one side. Photos from a google search show the filter material closer to the eardrum than the driver. If my stock tips were the other way (I don't think they were) then the sound is the same either way...
post #2589 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by H20Fidelity View Post  Just letting you guys know the ER4S and iBasso DX50 pair together overly well, plenty of driving power on medium gain, setting. it's still a little buggy at the moment, but keep your ears open, as it sounds really rich in detail and accurate in timbre.

 

Just a friendly reminder --- make sure you balance the digital attenuation to make sure you're getting the maximum amount of dynamic range on the DX50. At low gain, the DX50 outputs 1.2 Vrms, which is plenty of juice for the ER4S (or any BA IEM for that matter, no matter how high the impedance is; a single BA like the ER4 especially has less input headroom before distortion). Juicing the ER4S to 1.7 Vrms is not really necessary, especially when it only gains 3 dB in dynamic range, from 103 to 106. Digitally attenuating the volume to acceptable levels in medium gain mode would lower dynamic range to way lower levels. It's not like the DX50 uses a Sabre DAC, where you can take advantage of the 32-bit digital volume control inside. The DX50's digital volume control throws away a lot more than just the least significant bits, the more you attenuate away from full scale. By -30 dB, you're losing a ton of dynamic range. Thus, you're better off using low gain and cranking the volume a little higher. A lot of people think higher gain "sounds better", but it's not necessarily true, especially when your IEM doesn't need the power. In this case, you're actually losing sound quality because the absolute dynamic range delivered is lower because you've had to digitally attenuate the music level to a point where you're listening to essentially 9-bit, 10-bit music.

post #2590 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Mine are definitely closer on one side. Photos from a google search show the filter material closer to the eardrum than the driver. If my stock tips were the other way (I don't think they were) then the sound is the same either way...

 

I don't think the direction affects the sound, especially considering that any tips that extend past the end of the barrel (any of the tri-flange tips) should have the same affect as putting the filters in cloth side down. The end result is that there is more tube for the sound to travel down. Plus the filters are only like 2mm long lol. 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

Just a friendly reminder --- make sure you balance the digital attenuation to make sure you're getting the maximum amount of dynamic range on the DX50. At low gain, the DX50 outputs 1.2 Vrms, which is plenty of juice for the ER4S (or any BA IEM for that matter, no matter how high the impedance is; a single BA like the ER4 especially has less input headroom before distortion). Juicing the ER4S to 1.7 Vrms is not really necessary, especially when it only gains 3 dB in dynamic range, from 103 to 106. Digitally attenuating the volume to acceptable levels in medium gain mode would lower dynamic range to way lower levels. It's not like the DX50 uses a Sabre DAC, where you can take advantage of the 32-bit digital volume control inside. The DX50's digital volume control throws away a lot more than just the least significant bits, the more you attenuate away from full scale. By -30 dB, you're losing a ton of dynamic range. Thus, you're better off using low gain and cranking the volume a little higher. A lot of people think higher gain "sounds better", but it's not necessarily true, especially when your IEM doesn't need the power. In this case, you're actually losing sound quality because the absolute dynamic range delivered is lower because you've had to digitally attenuate the music level to a point where you're listening to essentially 9-bit, 10-bit music.

 
 

This makes a lot of sense. Sounds like the same principle behind why it's better to use full volume for playback on windows when outputting to an external amp. 

 

Also I wonder if this is the reason companies like Leckerton still use analog volume control, because it doesn't sacrifice dynamic range at lower volumes. What are your thoughts on using the Fuze or clip without an amp to power the ER4S? Always enjoy tapping into your wealth of knowledge. :etysmile:

post #2591 of 4667
Well the tips wouldn't relate to filter direction exactly, because the distance from the driver to the filter is fixed. Whether the filter material is closer to the driver or not wouldn't be affected by insertion depth or tip sleeve depth. The question would be, does the sound change at all by having 2mm or so more distance to travel and bounce around before going through the filter material?

I don't think it matters either way. Just saying. :-p
post #2592 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

Just a friendly reminder --- make sure you balance the digital attenuation to make sure you're getting the maximum amount of dynamic range on the DX50. At low gain, the DX50 outputs 1.2 Vrms, which is plenty of juice for the ER4S (or any BA IEM for that matter, no matter how high the impedance is; a single BA like the ER4 especially has less input headroom before distortion). Juicing the ER4S to 1.7 Vrms is not really necessary, especially when it only gains 3 dB in dynamic range, from 103 to 106. Digitally attenuating the volume to acceptable levels in medium gain mode would lower dynamic range to way lower levels. It's not like the DX50 uses a Sabre DAC, where you can take advantage of the 32-bit digital volume control inside. The DX50's digital volume control throws away a lot more than just the least significant bits, the more you attenuate away from full scale. By -30 dB, you're losing a ton of dynamic range. Thus, you're better off using low gain and cranking the volume a little higher. A lot of people think higher gain "sounds better", but it's not necessarily true, especially when your IEM doesn't need the power. In this case, you're actually losing sound quality because the absolute dynamic range delivered is lower because you've had to digitally attenuate the music level to a point where you're listening to essentially 9-bit, 10-bit music.

I will keep this is mind, thank you for the informative information, appreciate it.
post #2593 of 4667
Digital volume control isnt quite that simple...

You lose dynamic range with analog too. For example, if a music track was recorded with peaks of 120 dB and you listen at a lower volume on your analog amplifier so that peaks are at 90 dB (a reasonable level to preserve your hearing), then you have "lost" 30 dB of dynamic range. This loss is the same whether the volume of your DAC is 100% or not.
post #2594 of 4667

I think this might be why the bass sounds better to me with the c5 from my apogee interface.  More dynamic range.  Makes the bass sound a little more impactful from dynamics.  That's why everything else sounds identical.  It's a small amount, but it really adds to the bass...

post #2595 of 4667

Ok, I just plonked in the red filters, cloth side up.

 

Bass has more presence, sweeeet! ... but this has come at the expense of some of that Ety treble magic. It's still delivering heaps of details yes, but a nice chunk has become less discernible.

 

Still too early to say which one I like better, but there is definitely a noticeable difference between the green and red filters.

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