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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 151

post #2251 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


I've had the opposite experience. I'll probably never try customs again. Everything you said is the exact opposite for me. With how difficult it is to get the perfect fit, i think it is 99% likely i'd never come close with customs.

 

Then you might have had a bad earmold done. I am talking about custom tips, not custom earphones. And the material that's used to make the tips makes quite a bit of differences too. There're acrylic, vinyl, silicone, etc. Mine are heat activated vinyl tips from Westone. I got 2 pairs for the price of 1, and that's nice of Westone. I once had the JH16, and the fit on that was awful. So in regards to custom stuff, there're more variables that affect the fit, one of them being the craftsmanship of the person making the tips/CIEM.

 

The problem I have with normal tips, is that the opening of the tips often get constricted, affecting the treble quality a lot. The length and width of the opening affects the peak frequency, I read somewhere. All I can say for sure is, the sound from the stock triflange is noticeably worse than from the custom tips. 

 

I value comfort, so I prefer the custom tips. I could wear them for 4 to 5 hours without any problem. But with the stock triflange, 2 hours is the most before discomfort sets in.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

You'd be surprised to learn what IEMs such as the K3003, TG334, Parterre & KAEDE are capable of, or even the new 385€ FA-4E. (Not the F111, which sounds decidedly 2D [I had the exact same fit, same tips, same angle of insertion with Parterre & F111, BTW])

 

I guess so. The only one that I will consider buying would be the K3003, but at 1300 the price is steep. I'd much rather pay save up that 1/3 to go for the SR-009. IMO, the TOTL cans are in another class altogether. There's a huge review here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13

 

Also no offense, but it's rather impossible to get the exact same fit everytime. There's no way you can guarantee there's the same level of oil and humidity on the skin everytime. You could say it's very similar fit, but no way it can be exactly the same.

 

Edit: Like you I like vented drivers too. Those do sound a bit more natural. But I prefer to have it on headphones that I use at home. With IEM I just want isolation, comfort, and accuracy, in order of preference.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Well said. I agree for the most part, but with just a little eq i don't think there's any genre the er4s doesn't excel at. Stock, yes the 650 trumps the er4s in low end for electronic, etc. eq, nit so much. Better bass impact, yes, quality... Not so sure. They're just different sounding bass due to the technologies. I'd choose the 600/650 in most cases if environmental noises and a few other things didn't matter. But the er4s has an almost silky quality the 600/650 lacks..,

 

No offense again but why would you want to EQ the flat response (assuming you get proper fit) of the ER4S to something that's non flat, except perhaps personal preference? With proper source and amp, I don't find the ER4S anemic. Even though it's true that the bass doesn't linger too long but it's not anemic to me. One will always feel the bass from headphones better just because they move magnitudes amount more air than tiny drivers in earphones. That's what bypassing the outer ear does (pinna and ear canal).

 

In fact, I find the low end from the ER4S rather linear. The low end from the HD600 rolls off from 50Hz downwards. Have you heard of planar dynamic/orthodynamic headphones? Bass from those headphones are what I call proper bass. If you like linear bass down infrasonic range, I think you might like it.


Edited by koonhua90 - 8/22/13 at 4:42am
post #2252 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildblue View Post

Hey all--longtime audio/video enthusiast, new member here.  Air Force pilot in Alaska, been part of the A/V/home theater industry for over a decade now.  Have used Etymotic ER-4P's for that long, and I'm on my third set now.  My second set just got damaged, and I had them repaired/replaced again with the third set, which has prompted me to delve even more into portable audio.  So I just sent Ray Samuels a check for an SR-71 amp and LOD cable, and I'm also waiting for my custom mold plugs to come back from the manufacturer.  Between those two things, it should take me to a whole new portable audio level.

 

I also just replaced my broken ER-6i's with Ety HF3's as backup earphones.

 

I do miss my original ER4-P set.  I actually preferred the slightly rubberized cord, and the all red and blue ear stems that made it easy to discern left and right to put them in the correct ears.  Now, if the light level is low in the room, I have a tough time seeing which one has the red dot for the right ear.  My original review on the ER-4P was listen on Ety's website back when, but they've move on to newer stuff.  I use my Etys constantly while travelling, whether it's me flying, or riding in back while somebody else flies.  Sometimes I'll even wear my Etys instead of earplugs while doing a walkaround inspection of the aircraft exterior, right next to running jet engines, which is quite a testament to the sound isolation.

 

Etymotic customer service has been top notch all along, as I've tried some different products, and had to have damaged products repaired/replaced.  (all out of warranty, too)  This most recent time around, they charged me more than they have in the past, but I don't necessarily expect them to be so generous every time.

 

I had great service from Etymotic too, I sent my HF2 to them with faulty channel and they sent me back a new set. I live in Australia. World wide excellent service, I think they assess the cause of the problem and don't simply throw a new set to customers if there is any problem.

 

I use the old style ER4S with the red/blue indicator, grey splitter and ACS custom tips. I don't think there has been any improvements to the sound only the aesthetics and cable geometry?

 

Hope the SR-71 works well with the ER4P, I recommend a high quality DAC too to improvement the signal to the amp, the ER4 respond well. Also according to posters here the custom tips can vary in success with each individual. Any which way the Etymotic provide an excellent show of the connected equipment once you get them settled. Probably the greatest value high quality product along with Sennheisers HD600/650.

post #2253 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by koonhua90 View Post

Then you might have had a bad earmold done. I am talking about custom tips, not custom earphones. And the material that's used to make the tips makes quite a bit of differences too. There're acrylic, vinyl, silicone, etc. Mine are heat activated vinyl tips from Westone. I got 2 pairs for the price of 1, and that's nice of Westone. I once had the JH16, and the fit on that was awful. So in regards to custom stuff, there're more variables that affect the fit, one of them being the craftsmanship of the person making the tips/CIEM.

The problem I have with normal tips, is that the opening of the tips often get constricted, affecting the treble quality a lot. The length and width of the opening affects the peak frequency, I read somewhere. All I can say for sure is, the sound from the stock triflange is noticeably worse than from the custom tips. 

I value comfort, so I prefer the custom tips. I could wear them for 4 to 5 hours without any problem. But with the stock triflange, 2 hours is the most before discomfort sets in.

 

I guess so. The only one that I will consider buying would be the K3003, but at 1300 the price is steep. I'd much rather pay save up that 1/3 to go for the SR-009. IMO, the TOTL cans are in another class altogether. There's a huge review here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13


Also no offense, but it's rather impossible to get the exact same fit everytime. There's no way you can guarantee there's the same level of oil and humidity on the skin everytime. You could say it's very similar fit, but no way it can be exactly the same.

Edit: Like you I like vented drivers too. Those do sound a bit more natural. But I prefer to have it on headphones that I use at home. With IEM I just want isolation, comfort, and accuracy, in order of preference.
 


No offense again but why would you want to EQ the flat response (assuming you get proper fit) of the ER4S to something that's non flat, except perhaps personal preference? With proper source and amp, I don't find the ER4S anemic. Even though it's true that the bass doesn't linger too long but it's not anemic to me. One will always feel the bass from headphones better just because they move magnitudes amount more air than tiny drivers in earphones. That's what bypassing the outer ear does (pinna and ear canal).

In fact, I find the low end from the ER4S rather linear. The low end from the HD600 rolls off from 50Hz downwards. Have you heard of planar dynamic/orthodynamic headphones? Bass from those headphones are what I call proper bass. If you like linear bass down infrasonic range, I think you might like it.
first, i was talking about custom tips for my er4s, not custom iems. Second, it does seem like a bad mold, but i've been molded twice with and without a bite block. Both are sub par. Perhaps it's my audiologist, but i'm guessing it is microsonics. As you said, the craftsmanship matters.

As for not getting a perfect fit every time, i disagree. I can fit the pfe112/232, er4s foam/triple flange, sony xba3, westone 4r, shure 535, etc. identically every time. I get consistent sound and comfort. All of the time. I could do this as well with the f111, but i would achieve the non-perfect response that is warmer and less accurate. The graphs i've seen show er4 like response. To achieve the desired response the fit is very inconsistent. The question is which response were they designed for? If the warmer sound, then they are consistent. Either way, for accuracy the perfect fit is required. In that case they are inconsistent. If they were designed so that accurate response could be achieved the same way all those other earphones achieve their target response with normal insertion, then i'd be happy. But perhaps they wanted it warmer, I'm not sure.

Regarding bass, my preference isn't the issue. The eq i discuss is to make the bass flat technically. It is not flat stock. Very close, but not flat. I never described it as anemic personally. It's not. But it rolls off in the sub bass region starting around 50hz or so. This isn't my preference though. I based this eq off of frequency response graphs from multiple sources, my ears, and the ears of other experienced audiophiles looking fir flat reference sound. Even with a perfect fit this is the case. I am aware that different types of phones portray bass differently, and i'm not compensating for that, but simply aiming for perfectly flat response in general.

Regarding an amp, sure with the "right" amp you could get more bass and need no eq. However, that amp wouldn't be flat if you're talking technically. Nothing wrong with that. But i want my gear to be reference in every way possible including frequency response. I can always adjust eq to tailor to my preferences, although my preference is pretty flat to begin with if the phones are good.

The hd600 also suffers from sub bass rolloff as well as mid bass boost despite what sone people say. I eq the mid bass down a tad and sub bass up. It really opens the sound up, although they still sound great stock.

I haven't heard those other headphone types. Perhaps sone day. Personally i don't really have an issue with iem bass if it's flat. I can't listen to bass boosted earphones anymore even. :-P
post #2254 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

Check out what tomscy2000 had to say about Canalworks custom iems on page 138 of this thread: 

 

 
 

Thanks. It sounds awesome.

 

Is my understanding correct that 100,000 of Japanese yen (the price of 5 driver CIEM from Canalworks) equals more or less USD 1,000? Canalworks page is only in Japanese and does not contain a choice of currency.

post #2255 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


first, i was talking about custom tips for my er4s, not custom iems. Second, it does seem like a bad mold, but i've been molded twice with and without a bite block. Both are sub par. Perhaps it's my audiologist, but i'm guessing it is microsonics. As you said, the craftsmanship matters.

As for not getting a perfect fit every time, i disagree. I can fit the pfe112/232, er4s foam/triple flange, sony xba3, westone 4r, shure 535, etc. identically every time. I get consistent sound and comfort. All of the time. I could do this as well with the f111, but i would achieve the non-perfect response that is warmer and less accurate. The graphs i've seen show er4 like response. To achieve the desired response the fit is very inconsistent. The question is which response were they designed for? If the warmer sound, then they are consistent. Either way, for accuracy the perfect fit is required. In that case they are inconsistent. If they were designed so that accurate response could be achieved the same way all those other earphones achieve their target response with normal insertion, then i'd be happy. But perhaps they wanted it warmer, I'm not sure.

Regarding bass, my preference isn't the issue. The eq i discuss is to make the bass flat technically. It is not flat stock. Very close, but not flat. I never described it as anemic personally. It's not. But it rolls off in the sub bass region starting around 50hz or so. This isn't my preference though. I based this eq off of frequency response graphs from multiple sources, my ears, and the ears of other experienced audiophiles looking fir flat reference sound. Even with a perfect fit this is the case. I am aware that different types of phones portray bass differently, and i'm not compensating for that, but simply aiming for perfectly flat response in general.

Regarding an amp, sure with the "right" amp you could get more bass and need no eq. However, that amp wouldn't be flat if you're talking technically. Nothing wrong with that. But i want my gear to be reference in every way possible including frequency response. I can always adjust eq to tailor to my preferences, although my preference is pretty flat to begin with if the phones are good.

The hd600 also suffers from sub bass rolloff as well as mid bass boost despite what sone people say. I eq the mid bass down a tad and sub bass up. It really opens the sound up, although they still sound great stock.

I haven't heard those other headphone types. Perhaps sone day. Personally i don't really have an issue with iem bass if it's flat. I can't listen to bass boosted earphones anymore even. :-P

 

Did you use the same audiologist? Maybe should try another one.

 

Based on some graphs here, http://sonove.angry.jp/FitEarToGo334.html, it does seem like the ER4S rolls off to close to 6dB SPL down to 30Hz.

 

Are you running stock green filters? I have some red 2.2kohm coming today, maybe that'll make the bass slightly more prominent.

 

I am talking about amps with flat response. ER4S has 100 ohm impedance, so an amp is somewhat needed.

 

Earphones are good, but they only go so far. Then when one gets enough good headphones, it will dawn upon them that headphones only go so far. They will want speakers then. I got tired of trying out earphones, and as I have said most have obvious flaw, so I went on to headphones instead. I used to scorn on expensive headphones, until I hear the orthos and electrostats.

 

Planar magnetic headphones are the only kind of headphones that I have seen that have a flat response down below 20Hz. Then again I don't mind slight roll off in IEM or headphones. There are more important aspects that I care.

 

Enough of me harping around. I shall report back later when I put in the red filters.

post #2256 of 4667

OK...I thought the filters come in pairs, but nope you have to buy each of them. Each is each. I bought 3 reds...

 

The stock filters have plastic housing. The Knowles filters have metal housing. Those things are tiny. Since it's metal it's tougher to put it into the earphones. Some force is needed.

 

Just started listening, nothing significantly different, perhaps a tinge more warmth, and the bass is a bit more prominent now, compared to the rest of the spectrum.


Edited by koonhua90 - 8/22/13 at 12:11pm
post #2257 of 4667

They don't damage the housing do they?

 

If they're really wedged in there, there's likely very little chance of a non-destructive removal.

post #2258 of 4667

No not really. Shouldn't be hard to remove the filters using the remover that Ety provided.

post #2259 of 4667

By the way, a stupid little customization I did a while back, but I forgot to mention it...  In addition to the cord adjuster I made, I also added a similar device to the right ear cable.  It does slide, however, it stays in place pretty good if you make it tight enough, and even though it slides, it always stays above the cord adjuster.  So, it's always easy to find.  It has been extremely useful to me, because I listen to music in bed in the dark.  It makes it very easy to tell which ear is right and left.  Just a thought...  Thick paper and tape.  Bam.  Any paper will probably do, but I used a little sliver of an index card rolled over itself once or twice and taped around a few times, so they end up stiff and tough.

 

I could have put something right on the phones, but I didn't want to get sticky residue or anything on there.  This is completely removable and won't affect anything.

 

post #2260 of 4667

I'm just waiting on three more payments.  Please check your messages if you didn't already pay.  I'm ready to order!  :-P

 

ALSO, I had a couple of stragglers in there after the request period.  I said "what the heck" and figured them, but there are no more requests.  So please don't request any more filters.  If we do another buy at a later date I'd be happy to organize it again if I have the time.  However, for now I have a good amount of filters to ship out and don't want to do any more math! haha ;) ;)  1 + 2 is 6 right?


Edited by luisdent - 8/23/13 at 3:24pm
post #2261 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

I'm just waiting on three more payments.  Please check your messages if you didn't already pay.  I'm ready to order!  :-P

ALSO, I had a couple of stragglers in there after the request period.  I said "what the heck" and figured them, but there are no more requests.  So please don't request any more filters.  If we do another buy at a later date I'd be happy to organize it again if I have the time.  However, for now I have a good amount of filters to ship out and don't want to do any more math! haha wink.gifwink.gif  1 + 2 is 6 right?

clue+1+2+1+1.jpg
post #2262 of 4667

Would any ER4 lovers be interested in an Etymotic HF5 (black) as a venerable fun backup to the ER4?

 

I'm selling because I've been very irresponsible with my money lately.

post #2263 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

I've been very irresponsible with my money lately.
Isn't that why we join these forums? :-P
post #2264 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Would any ER4 lovers be interested in an Etymotic HF5 (black) as a venerable fun backup to the ER4?

 

I'm selling because I've been very irresponsible with my money lately.

 

You just bought them!

post #2265 of 4667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildblue View Post

Hey all--longtime audio/video enthusiast, new member here.  Air Force pilot in Alaska, been part of the A/V/home theater industry for over a decade now.  Have used Etymotic ER-4P's for that long, and I'm on my third set now.  My second set just got damaged, and I had them repaired/replaced again with the third set, which has prompted me to delve even more into portable audio.  So I just sent Ray Samuels a check for an SR-71 amp and LOD cable, and I'm also waiting for my custom mold plugs to come back from the manufacturer.  Between those two things, it should take me to a whole new portable audio level.

 

I also just replaced my broken ER-6i's with Ety HF3's as backup earphones.

 

I do miss my original ER4-P set.  I actually preferred the slightly rubberized cord, and the all red and blue ear stems that made it easy to discern left and right to put them in the correct ears.  Now, if the light level is low in the room, I have a tough time seeing which one has the red dot for the right ear.  My original review on the ER-4P was listen on Ety's website back when, but they've move on to newer stuff.  I use my Etys constantly while travelling, whether it's me flying, or riding in back while somebody else flies.  Sometimes I'll even wear my Etys instead of earplugs while doing a walkaround inspection of the aircraft exterior, right next to running jet engines, which is quite a testament to the sound isolation.

 

Etymotic customer service has been top notch all along, as I've tried some different products, and had to have damaged products repaired/replaced.  (all out of warranty, too)  This most recent time around, they charged me more than they have in the past, but I don't necessarily expect them to be so generous every time.

 

Welcome to head-fi Wildblue. You flying Raptors at Elmendorf?

beerchug.gif

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