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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 147

post #2191 of 4932

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovyd View Post

I have the custom fit plugs and was wondering soundwise how do they compare to using the small triple flange in terms of response?  Certainly block all outside noise and seem to have plenty of bass but just wondering if for best sound quality if perhaps it is preferred to use either the flanges or foam plugs instead of the custom fit mold?  Or does the mold create a tilted response of its own that needs compensated?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


The molds typically create treble spikes and ruin the ety sound. I can't speak for everyone's ears/molda, but it's pretty common. Check out rin's blog "ety custon tips an inconvenient truth" i thin it's called.

 

I have the ACS custom molds. Fortunately I have no adverse affect on the ER4 or HF2, I get vastly improved comfort and slightly better isolation, I would say also slightly improved sound as the custom moulds seem to direct better than the stock tips. I guess custom tips are risk that must be taken if you want the comfort with Etymotics.

post #2192 of 4932

I agree they are much more comfortable then the flanges or foam.  The sound seems a bit stronger across the board when comparing fitted in one ear and flange in the other.  Just curious what the consensus was on this.  I only wish they were a little easier to put in and pull out.  Using the gel provided seems to cause less jaw movement noises then dampening with saliva does.  Still prefer my T1's for at home listening and ease of on/off but the IEMs will prove their value in flight and on the road.

 

Returned my Paradigm H15Nc as they didn't really cancel noise, were boomy in bass, and uncomfortably pressed on the ears. Unfortunate for me because I really wanted to love them since I love their desktop speakers so much ;)

 

Any idea how the Beyer IEMs compare to Ety's?

post #2193 of 4932

I just got a genuine ER4P to ER4S adapter in the mail, and I've been using it all morning on my HF5.

 

The differences are exactly what have been described going from P to S.

 

On first listen and A/B, my reactions could be summed up as: "Wow, that's a lot clearer"

 

My final conclusion was "why would anyone want to listen to music with this?"

 

It's like someone locked up the HF3 in an underground cellar for months, until it lost every bit of character it had. 

 

As for the ER4S vs HF5 graphs, they don't nearly tell the full story. The ER4S may extend slightly further, but quantity seems lacking to my ears. The HF5 sounds like a sub-bass monster in comparison. I also find the HF5's treble response to be better. I hear much more tizz and sharpness with the S. Now the HF5's treble isn't the most full-bodied around, but the S is just not appealing to me. I see why you guys have been switching filters and adding EQ.

 

 

All this assumes that the adapter really does emulate the ER4S from the HF5. I hope not.

post #2194 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

I just got a genuine ER4P to ER4S adapter in the mail, and I've been using it all morning on my HF5.

The differences are exactly what have been described going from P to S.

On first listen and A/B, my reactions could be summed up as: "Wow, that's a lot clearer"

My final conclusion was "why would anyone want to listen to music with this?"

It's like someone locked up the HF3 in an underground cellar for months, until it lost every bit of character it had. 

As for the ER4S vs HF5 graphs, they don't nearly tell the full story. The ER4S may extend slightly further, but quantity seems lacking to my ears. The HF5 sounds like a sub-bass monster in comparison. I also find the HF5's treble response to be better. I hear much more tizz and sharpness with the S. Now the HF5's treble isn't the most full-bodied around, but the S is just not appealing to me. I see why you guys have been switching filters and adding EQ.


All this assumes that the adapter really does emulate the ER4S from the HF5. I hope not.

All that should change is an increase in the treble peaks, and they vary with every millimeter in insertion depth. They should still be behind the mids and bass though. For me I appreciate the extra emphasis, which is still not as harsh to me as the SUI, ASG-2, IE800, or DBA-02, which all have much bigger treble peaks to my ears.

Of course they have more bass on the other end, but are missing mids to some degree comparatively.
post #2195 of 4932

This is an adendum to my previous posts about improving the linearity of the ER4S using Rins measurements.


The ER4S is designed to be inserted up to the reference plane. Not all users can achieve the deep fit and the treble responce suffers:

From Rins blog



Difference between ref-plane and 3mm

Fortunately a relatively simple filter is required to reverse the effect with a high degree of accuracy. It's a high-shelf with a shifted resonance, the same basic filter is strongly asociated with Pultec EQs designed in the 1950, praised to this day by studio engineers. The following is an example of its use DMG Audio Equality.

3mm from the reference plane

6mm from the reference plane.


Edited by markanini - 8/17/13 at 1:09pm
post #2196 of 4932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

I just got a genuine ER4P to ER4S adapter in the mail, and I've been using it all morning on my HF5.

 

The differences are exactly what have been described going from P to S.

 

On first listen and A/B, my reactions could be summed up as: "Wow, that's a lot clearer"

 

My final conclusion was "why would anyone want to listen to music with this?"

 

It's like someone locked up the HF3 in an underground cellar for months, until it lost every bit of character it had. 

 

As for the ER4S vs HF5 graphs, they don't nearly tell the full story. The ER4S may extend slightly further, but quantity seems lacking to my ears. The HF5 sounds like a sub-bass monster in comparison. I also find the HF5's treble response to be better. I hear much more tizz and sharpness with the S. Now the HF5's treble isn't the most full-bodied around, but the S is just not appealing to me. I see why you guys have been switching filters and adding EQ.

 

All this assumes that the adapter really does emulate the ER4S from the HF5. I hope not.

 

HF5 + the adapter is no ER4S at all. You must get an ER4P + adapter or the original ER4S to hear the true ER4S sound IMO.  I definitely prefer the stock HF5 to HF5 with the adapter as well. Unlike ER4P, HF5 actually sounds worse with the added resistance IMO - the natural balance is ruined and sound becomes overly peaky, thin and oddly colored. Adding the adapter to ER4P is a different story altogether. Actually, I find the stock ER4P to be somewhat oddly colored with an unnatural nasal quality to the midrange. The adapter fixes the tonal balance of the ER4P and the sound becomes exceptionally natural. The highs on the ER4S extend better with way more precision and definition compared to ER4P and the mids are more even and transparent. The resolution is also increased throughout the entire spectrum, but especially in the highs. I prefer HF5 treble to that of ER4P, because it sounds more present and lively to my ears, but ER4S takes treble quality to a whole new level with way more refinement and resolution compared to HF5 and ER4P. However, it is absolutely imperative to get a proper fit with the ER4S to hear that perfect natural frequency balance from them. Without a perfect fit, the bass will be lacking. With the right seal, the bass quantity is just about perfectly neutral IMO.

post #2197 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

HF5 + the adapter is no ER4S at all. You must get an ER4P + adapter or the original ER4S to hear the true ER4S sound IMO.  I definitely prefer the stock HF5 to HF5 with the adapter as well. Unlike ER4P, HF5 actually sounds worse with the added resistance IMO - the natural balance is ruined and sound becomes overly peaky, thin and oddly colored. Adding the adapter to ER4P is a different story altogether. Actually, I find the stock ER4P to be somewhat oddly colored with an unnatural nasal quality to the midrange. The adapter fixes the tonal balance of the ER4P and the sound becomes exceptionally natural. The highs on the ER4S extend better with way more precision and definition compared to ER4P and the mids are more even and transparent. The resolution is also increased throughout the entire spectrum, but especially in the highs. I prefer HF5 treble to that of ER4P, because it sounds more present and lively to my ears, but ER4S takes treble quality to a whole new level with way more refinement and resolution compared to HF5 and ER4P. However, it is absolutely imperative to get a proper fit with the ER4S to hear that perfect natural frequency balance from them. Without a perfect fit, the bass will be lacking. With the right seal, the bass quantity is just about perfectly neutral IMO.

+1 couldn't have said it better myself.

post #2198 of 4932

Is fit really an issue with Etys?

 

Straight plug with a tri-flange.  Isn't it foolproof for everyone?  Push in till it stops and bingo.  Perfect fit.

 

What am I missing?

post #2199 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Is fit really an issue with Etys?

Straight plug with a tri-flange.  Isn't it foolproof for everyone?  Push in till it stops and bingo.  Perfect fit.

What am I missing?

Where to stop isn't obvious. Also ear canals aren't always straight. And creating a vacuum can affect sound. And there are different length tips. And Etys are more acoustically sensitive to fit than most iems. There are plenty of reasons why fit can present sound issues.
post #2200 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

HF5 + the adapter is no ER4S at all. You must get an ER4P + adapter or the original ER4S to hear the true ER4S sound IMO.  I definitely prefer the stock HF5 to HF5 with the adapter as well. Unlike ER4P, HF5 actually sounds worse with the added resistance IMO - the natural balance is ruined and sound becomes overly peaky, thin and oddly colored. Adding the adapter to ER4P is a different story altogether. Actually, I find the stock ER4P to be somewhat oddly colored with an unnatural nasal quality to the midrange. The adapter fixes the tonal balance of the ER4P and the sound becomes exceptionally natural. The highs on the ER4S extend better with way more precision and definition compared to ER4P and the mids are more even and transparent. The resolution is also increased throughout the entire spectrum, but especially in the highs. I prefer HF5 treble to that of ER4P, because it sounds more present and lively to my ears, but ER4S takes treble quality to a whole new level with way more refinement and resolution compared to HF5 and ER4P. However, it is absolutely imperative to get a proper fit with the ER4S to hear that perfect natural frequency balance from them. Without a perfect fit, the bass will be lacking. With the right seal, the bass quantity is just about perfectly neutral IMO.

 

I'm glad to see this. For a second I thought you were all insane beerchug.gif

post #2201 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Is fit really an issue with Etys?

 

Straight plug with a tri-flange.  Isn't it foolproof for everyone?  Push in till it stops and bingo.  Perfect fit.

 

What am I missing?

 

Fit is a massive issue. I completely wrote off the Etys until I bought another set and finally achieved the correct depth. They key here is to get it past the second bend, which is almost always until the bottom flange isn't visible anymore in the mirror. It's a single BA that won't move much air across great distances, so getting it into ideal position is critical.

 

Basically, when it stops the first time, twist and keep going until the only thing stopping deeper insertion is the strain relief.

post #2202 of 4932
^ Me too, those impressions of the 3 Etys matches mine, exactly.
post #2203 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJHeadfi View Post



I have the ACS custom molds. Fortunately I have no adverse affect on the ER4 or HF2, I get vastly improved comfort and slightly better isolation, I would say also slightly improved sound as the custom moulds seem to direct better than the stock tips. I guess custom tips are risk that must be taken if you want the comfort with Etymotics.
Mine were microsonics. ::
post #2204 of 4932
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Fit is a massive issue. I completely wrote off the Etys until I bought another set and finally achieved the correct depth. They key here is to get it past the second bend, which is almost always until the bottom flange isn't visible anymore in the mirror. It's a single BA that won't move much air across great distances, so getting it into ideal position is critical.

Basically, when it stops the first time, twist and keep going until the only thing stopping deeper insertion is the strain relief.
Your rite. Also I make sure that I only wet them a little bit. Just enough to get them in there. I if I wet them too much that the seal will break easier. I know I have the perfect seal when the music isn't playing I can't hear like anything at all basically in the outer world lol it's actually insane just how much these can really block out once you have that perfect seal. And makes a HUGE difference in the sound.
post #2205 of 4932

i guess the thing i really like most about the custom fits is you take this whole insertion sensitivity out of the equation.  perhaps the sound isn't exactly what you would get with flanges in the right spot but it is always the same with little fuss about it.  i can also leave them in for hours without any discomfort.

 

the logical question here is assuming you use the custom molds what should the EQ settings look like to give the same response as the ideal setup using flanges?  i have been using Accudio Pro on my iPod except that is established for flanges and so how do i need to tweak the settings for customs?

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