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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 117

post #1741 of 4657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

Pianist, 

 

Do the highs extend on the RE-400? I'm not a big fan of the dark sound. I gotta have treble. 

 

If you love treble, RE-400 may not be for you. It's a bit uneven and quite soft/laid back sounding in the highs. I think the treble character may improve if you remove the foams, although that may create unpleasant peaks in the treble response. However, EQ'ing should definitely help - just ask tigon_ridge. biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

ER4S = Treble Master. lol

 

+1 Without a doubt, ER4S has the best treble I ever heard in IEMs.


Edited by Pianist - 6/17/13 at 7:44pm
post #1742 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

 

EDIT: SILLY ME! That version on Youtube is freakin' 128 kbps at best, because I just compared it to my 320 kbps copy and the latter sounds way better, especially in the highs. Arghh, I should've known better. The Youtube version has that horrible treble compression of 128 kbps and under MP3. :puke: Sorry man, but if you really want to AB such high quality headphones using this track, you need the proper quality version. PM me your email and I will send you a copy in 320 kbps. Then you will have to redo the comparison and will have to hear the Etys crush your poor RE-400. Buahahahaha! evil_smiley.gif

 

   The file on grooveshark sounds pretty good. Better than the 128K  http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/The+New+Edge/748899

post #1743 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

Hey, I am glad you enjoy the music. smily_headphones1.gif What tips are you using with your ER4? I find that Etys perform this music best with silicone tips. I was using the standard, grey Ety triple flanges. I am trying out the Shure black foam tips (the "olives") and they make the Etys sound a little muddy for my tastes. I find the both HF5 and ER4 P/S with the standard, grey triple flanges have superior resolution, speed and definition with this track compared to all my other headphones, except for HE-500 which do keep up with the Etys in these aspects quite well. I find the bass of the Etys to be the tightest, fastest, most precise that I've ever heard along with my HE-500 and maybe a handful of other high end cans that I auditioned. RE-400 has impressive bass as well for a dynamic, but it doesn't quite have the rock solid quality in the bottom end that Etys have IMO. On this particular track, RE-400 comes off sounding a bit bloated to my ears - very slightly, but audibly so compared to the Etys or HE-500. Make no mistake, RE-400 still has better bass than most other headphones I tried and beat out the Etys in some aspects too, like dynamics, punch, extension and maybe texture as well. However, for light, acoustic tracks such as this one, the Etys simply have the upper hand with that crazy bottom end control and precision of theirs. The mids and highs also sound less precise to me on RE-400 than on the Etys, but then almost all other headphones sound less precise than Etys too. lol I am not sure why you feel that it is hard to tell instrument placement with the Etys, because I find them absolutely razor sharp and perfectly precise in their instrument placement. RE-400 does have more dimensionality to the soundstage and perhaps more realistic imaging, but Etys definitely have more precise imaging.

 

Oh BTW, if you want RE-400 to sound brighter, you should try taking out the foams from the nozzles. Since it's an easily reversible mod, you really should give it a try. Maybe you won't need to EQ the RE-400 then. Personally, I am still on the fence about RE-400 FR balance and still can't decide whether it's just right or too dark for me. I find that their sound changes a lot with fit and tips, so I am still experimenting with different tips and insertion depths...

 

EDIT: SILLY ME! That version on Youtube is freakin' 128 kbps at best, because I just compared it to my 320 kbps copy and the latter sounds way better, especially in the highs. Arghh, I should've known better. The Youtube version has that horrible treble compression of 128 kbps and under MP3. :puke: Sorry man, but if you really want to AB such high quality headphones using this track, you need the proper quality version. PM me your email and I will send you a copy in 320 kbps. Then you will have to redo the comparison and will have to hear the Etys crush your poor RE-400. Buahahahaha! evil_smiley.gif

I'm a bit confused. If I prefer one over the other in 128 kbps (not by a small margin either, btw), how is 320 kbps supposed to change that around? Keep in mind that I EQ'd my RE-400 to sound even better and more accurate than its stock sound, which I knew from the get go before I even purchased it that it would not be as accurate as I would like. Unlike most head-fiers, I view equalization as an immensely useful tool that is much neglected. If we're comparing the unEQ'd ER4S (which, btw, I also only listen to with EQ on) to the unEQ'd ER-400, I I would only prefer the 400 by only a hair; since its imaging and soundstaging are just on another level. I did that comparison with that particular song you linked, as well as EQ'd vs EQ'd. The EQ'd RE-400 won that one without even trying... it's super accurate, but at the same time quite musical. It made me feel the music, rather than just hear in the case of the ER4S. Now, if I hadn't ever touched the 400, I would probably enjoy the song with 4S just as much as you did; but my EQ'd 400 had me spoiled with a new standard of musical enjoyment.

 

Btw I'm kinda disappointed that you didn't already know I use the my modded gray double flange for my ER4S... I only mentioned it 3 times in this whole thread, and even posted pictures. LOL It's cool.

 

"The mids and highs also sound less precise to me on RE-400 than on the Etys"

 

Indeed. In fact, I posted about that in the RE-400/600 thread yesterday, I think. I had EQ'd the 400 to have more energy in the upper mids, lower treble, and upper treble. For the bass emphasis that comes with the stock sound, I leveled it slightly, which lends even greater clarity and accuracy to the sound. My EQ'd 400 sounds as vibrant but more accurate than even my EQ'd ER4S, for the following reasons: more powerful and thicker sub-bass, more bodied/liquid sound overall, more accurate soundstaging and imaging, and (please don't lynch me for this) more accurate treble! Yes. To me, I couldn't EQ the ER4S enough to make its treble sound more realistic and natural. The treble on the RE-400 just sounds so real, so detailed, extended, and so unoffending. Before EQ, it may sound slightly too relaxed for someone who is used to the ER4S; but after EQ, they gain the clarity and brightness of the ER4S while surpassing it in realism.

 

I must admit that I didn't know what truly good soundstage sounded like, until I heard the RE-400. So, when you add everything up altogether, I don't see how a 320kbps file is going to make enough of a difference that it would change my mind. Almost my entire music collection consists of lossless, and I've done enough A/Bing for today. It's time for nap. :)

post #1744 of 4657
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gozzer View Post

 

   The file on grooveshark sounds pretty good. Better than the 128K  http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/The+New+Edge/748899

 

Yep, that one sounds great! Nice find!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

I'm a bit confused. If I prefer one over the other in 128 kbps (not by a small margin either, btw), how is 320 kbps supposed to change that around? Keep in mind that I EQ'd my RE-400 to sound even better and more accurate than its stock sound, which I knew from the get go before I even purchased it that it would not be as accurate as I would like. Unlike most head-fiers, I view equalization as an immensely useful tool that is much neglected. If we're comparing the unEQ'd ER4S (which, btw, I also only listen to with EQ on) to the unEQ'd ER-400, I I would only prefer the 400 by only a hair; since its imaging and soundstaging are just on another level. I did that comparison with that particular song you linked, as well as EQ'd vs EQ'd. The EQ'd RE-400 won that one without even trying... it's super accurate, but at the same time quite musical. It made me feel the music, rather than just hear in the case of the ER4S. Now, if I hadn't ever touched the 400, I would probably enjoy the song with 4S just as much as you did; but my EQ'd 400 had me spoiled with a new standard of musical enjoyment.

 

Btw I'm kinda disappointed that you didn't already know I use the my modded gray double flange for my ER4S... I only mentioned it 3 times in this whole thread, and even posted pictures. LOL It's cool.

 

"The mids and highs also sound less precise to me on RE-400 than on the Etys"

 

Indeed. In fact, I posted about that in the RE-400/600 thread yesterday, I think. I had EQ'd the 400 to have more energy in the upper mids, lower treble, and upper treble. For the bass emphasis that comes with the stock sound, I leveled it slightly, which lends even greater clarity and accuracy to the sound. My EQ'd 400 sounds as vibrant but more accurate than even my EQ'd ER4S, for the following reasons: more powerful and thicker sub-bass, more bodied/liquid sound overall, more accurate soundstaging and imaging, and (please don't lynch me for this) more accurate treble! Yes. To me, I couldn't EQ the ER4S enough to make its treble sound more realistic and natural. The treble on the RE-400 just sounds so real, so detailed, extended, and so unoffending. Before EQ, it may sound slightly too relaxed for someone who is used to the ER4S; but after EQ, they gain the clarity and brightness of the ER4S while surpassing it in realism.

 

I must admit that I didn't know what truly good soundstage sounded like, until I heard the RE-400. So, when you add everything up altogether, I don't see how a 320kbps file is going to make enough of a difference that it would change my mind. Almost my entire music collection consists of lossless, and I've done enough A/Bing for today. It's time for nap. :)

 

No, that Youtube copy just sounds awful. It is missing too much depth and details, and is full of horrible compression artifacts. Listen to the one in the link posted by Gozzer. That one sounds much better. Listen to it when you will have the time and compare the Etys and RE-400 with it. Then report back and we will go from there.

 

BTW guys, I really recommend "Until Always," "The Notting Hill Two-Step" and "Cool as a Rule" from that Grooveshark link posted by Gozzer. In "Cool as a Rule," RE-400 actually overtakes the Etys for me with their superior bass impact. The bass punch that RE-400 can produce is really something special.


Edited by Pianist - 6/17/13 at 8:06pm
post #1745 of 4657
Great thank you so much..I can't wait to get this little beauty..smily_headphones1.gif costs a small fortune but to me it's so worth it smily_headphones1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post

Definitely. DX100 has more than sufficient power for the ER4S. IPC wasn't really that bad but getting it amp'ed or using DX100 is definitely better.
post #1746 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

+1 Without a doubt, ER4S has the best treble I ever heard in IEMs.

 

I won't argue with you too much about this point, but I still remember the old HifiMan RE0 as having the best, smothest, and most cleanly extended treble I had ever heard when I first got it -- 6+ years ago.  I didn't have the ER4 at that time to compare with, and I was only just discovering amplification at that time, as well as clean EQ, so I wasn't able to get enough bass out of the RE0 that I now can get out of the ER4, so I sold the RE0 and began moving up the SQ ladder to land on the ER4 3-4 years ago.  

 

Note: I just read your previous post saying the ER4 treble is better than the RE0, so if you have both, I'll take your word on that!


Edited by kmhaynes - 6/18/13 at 7:46am
post #1747 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

Yep, that one sounds great! Nice find!

 

 

 

No, that Youtube copy just sounds awful. It is missing too much depth and details, and is full of horrible compression artifacts. Listen to the one in the link posted by Gozzer. That one sounds much better. Listen to it when you will have the time and compare the Etys and RE-400 with it. Then report back and we will go from there.

 

BTW guys, I really recommend "Until Always," "The Notting Hill Two-Step" and "Cool as a Rule" from that Grooveshark link posted by Gozzer. In "Cool as a Rule," RE-400 actually overtakes the Etys for me with their superior bass impact. The bass punch that RE-400 can produce is really something special.

That was much better sounding than the youtube link. :) Hmmm... I it's almost a tie. I preferred the RE-400 just a bit. That file sounds great through the ER4S, indeed. It still has that stark dryness that leaves me wanting for more body and presence in each pluck, which the RE-400 fills in nicely without overdoing it... and the RE-400 still has better soundstage. Now, I wasn't able to download the file, so I couldn't play it through my EQ settings... but I have no doubt that with my current setting enabled, the RE-400 would've easily taken the win.

post #1748 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhaynes View Post

 

I won't argue with you too much about this point, but I still remember the old HifiMan RE0 as having the best, smothest, and most cleanly extended treble I had ever heard when I first got it -- 6+ years ago.  I didn't have the ER4 at that time to compare with, and I was only just discovering amplification at that time, as well as clean EQ, so I wasn't able to get enough bass out of the RE0 that I now can get out of the ER4, so I sold the RE0 and began moving up the SQ ladder to land on the ER4 3-4 years ago.  

 

Note: I just read your previous post saying the ER4 treble is better than the RE0, so if you have both, I'll take your word on that!

The RE-400 has less treble energy than the ER4S overall. However, when I use EQ to enhance the treble on the RE-400, it becomes apparent that the RE-400 has more natural and realistic sounding treble than the Etys. The RE-400 has more 'shimmer' in each cymbal strike. More weight to each treble sound. Each strike on the ER4S is fleeting and dry. It's been so long since I last heard the RE0, but I do remember loving its treble. The RE-400's treble reminds me alot of the RE0's treble. Unoffending. Extended. Just like the ER4S used the help of a resistor to increase its treble quantity and extension, you can help the RE-400 do the same with EQ. Not sure why people are so allergic to the idea of doing this, when they wouldn't hesitate at buying $300 cables. EQ is free. *rolls eyes*

post #1749 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

The RE-400 has less treble energy than the ER4S overall. However, when I use EQ to enhance the treble on the RE-400, it becomes apparent that the RE-400 has more natural and realistic sounding treble than the Etys. The RE-400 has more 'shimmer' in each cymbal strike. More weight to each treble sound. Each strike on the ER4S is fleeting and dry. It's been so long since I last heard the RE0, but I do remember loving its treble. The RE-400's treble reminds me alot of the RE0's treble. Unoffending. Extended. Just like the ER4S used the help of a resistor to increase its treble quantity and extension, you can help the RE-400 do the same with EQ. Not sure why people are so allergic to the idea of doing this, when they wouldn't hesitate at buying $300 cables. EQ is free. *rolls eyes*
I wish I could eq my iPod classic but all it had is the pre set eqs..and I think they all sound horrible lol hope with my new ibasso dx100 coming I can personalize my eq settings..
post #1750 of 4657

I've read some of the review link'd from the Hifiman's website. After reading them and some of the hype on headfi, I'm going to assume the RE-400 is benefiting a little from shiny new toy syndrome and is a great value at $100. REO went through the same thing and eventually settled in its place... a nice value... Back to Etys etysmile.gif

post #1751 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

The RE-400 has less treble energy than the ER4S overall. However, when I use EQ to enhance the treble on the RE-400, it becomes apparent that the RE-400 has more natural and realistic sounding treble than the Etys. The RE-400 has more 'shimmer' in each cymbal strike. More weight to each treble sound. Each strike on the ER4S is fleeting and dry. It's been so long since I last heard the RE0, but I do remember loving its treble. The RE-400's treble reminds me alot of the RE0's treble. Unoffending. Extended. Just like the ER4S used the help of a resistor to increase its treble quantity and extension, you can help the RE-400 do the same with EQ. Not sure why people are so allergic to the idea of doing this, when they wouldn't hesitate at buying $300 cables. EQ is free. *rolls eyes*

 

Tigon do you eq for portable use? If so how? I've spent hours and hours eqing my rockboxed fuze with no real end game. I never come close to being satisfied. 

 

Also about the RE-400. If you eq it to have more treble than the ER4S, then it will have more treble. Is that what you're saying? More shimmer than the ER4S isn't a good thing imo, although I can respect that it might suit your tastes. I used to hold the DBA-02 in the highest regard. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

I've read some of the review link'd from the Hifiman's website. After reading them and some of the hype on headfi, I'm going to assume the RE-400 is benefiting a little from shiny new toy syndrome and is a great value at $100. REO went through the same thing and eventually settled in its place... a nice value... Back to Etys etysmile.gif

 

 

I think I agree. The RE-400 looks extremely similar to the RE0 but with less treble and more bass. If we're talking good sound for the price though, I actually prefer the $7 Monoprice 9927, even if it were to cost much more.

post #1752 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

Not sure why people are so allergic to the idea of doing this, when they wouldn't hesitate at buying $300 cables. EQ is free. *rolls eyes*

I hate using EQ for several reasons (TL;DR: It's impractical).

1. My iPhone battery life gets significantly reduced when using EQ. I've tried several applications (EQu, Denon audio, Capriccio, Accudio, and more)
2. EQ not possible on all sources. Even if EQ is possible, the EQ implementation may not be accurate enough to obtain desired sound (Eg: EQ with frequency bands instead of parametric EQ).
3. I use my IEMs on a wide range of sources that does not belong to me and will only be used once off so it will be a hassle/impossible to set up EQ every time. For example I may use library computers, use friend's computers, listen to demo portable DAPs in stores, borrow a friend's DAP, etc. Imagine what it would be like if I had to set up EQ every time in these instances.
4. Have to reduce gain to prevent clipping meaning that I may need amplification to reach desirable volume level.
post #1753 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by zowki View Post

I hate using EQ for several reasons (TL;DR: It's impractical).

1. My iPhone battery life gets significantly reduced when using EQ. I've tried several applications (EQu, Denon audio, Capriccio, Accudio, and more)
2. EQ not possible on all sources. Even if EQ is possible, the EQ implementation may not be accurate enough to obtain desired sound (Eg: EQ with frequency bands instead of parametric EQ).
3. I use my IEMs on a wide range of sources that does not belong to me and will only be used once off so it will be a hassle/impossible to set up EQ every time. For example I may use library computers, use friend's computers, listen to demo portable DAPs in stores, borrow a friend's DAP, etc. Imagine what it would be like if I had to set up EQ every time in these instances.
4. Have to reduce gain to prevent clipping meaning that I may need amplification to reach desirable volume level.
I agree completey. The overall quality of the er4s is close enough for me to not need eq on other people's devices, as i wouldn't have my music anyway. I'd basically just be losing a little bass, and the c5 has a decent bass boost if i have that. But i'm of the same opinion on eq. I wish i at least had an er4s specific bass boost device. Which would pretty much be a bass boost no higher than 80 hz or so with level adjustment. Haven't found anything yet.

Do you think there would be a good reception for a portable eq device that is strictly a high quality eq?
post #1754 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

I agree completey. The overall quality of the er4s is close enough for me to not need eq on other people's devices, as i wouldn't have my music anyway. I'd basically just be losing a little bass, and the c5 has a decent bass boost if i have that. But i'm of the same opinion on eq. I wish i at least had an er4s specific bass boost device. Which would pretty much be a bass boost no higher than 80 hz or so with level adjustment. Haven't found anything yet.

Do you think there would be a good reception for a portable eq device that is strictly a high quality eq?

Digizoid ZO may be what you want: http://www.digizoid.com/zo/

It increases the 30-70hz frequencies by a customizable amount. However, when I owned one I found it very gimmicky. It sounded pretty much the same when I used software EQ.
post #1755 of 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

Tigon do you eq for portable use? If so how? I've spent hours and hours eqing my rockboxed fuze with no real end game. I never come close to being satisfied. 

 

Also about the RE-400. If you eq it to have more treble than the ER4S, then it will have more treble. Is that what you're saying? More shimmer than the ER4S isn't a good thing imo, although I can respect that it might suit your tastes. I used to hold the DBA-02 in the highest regard. 

 

 

 

 

I think I agree. The RE-400 looks extremely similar to the RE0 but with less treble and more bass. If we're talking good sound for the price though, I actually prefer the $7 Monoprice 9927, even if it were to cost much more.

When it comes to portable use, there's very little you can do. Most of my listening is done next to the computer. Regarding "shimmer," I was referring to the decay of each cymbal strike, not the loudness of it. Of course, I do EQ up the treble to make it more pronounced, but that's not what I meant by shimmer. The DBA-02 seems like it would destroy my ears. More treble than the ER4S?? Fuhghettaboutit.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

I've read some of the review link'd from the Hifiman's website. After reading them and some of the hype on headfi, I'm going to assume the RE-400 is benefiting a little from shiny new toy syndrome and is a great value at $100. REO went through the same thing and eventually settled in its place... a nice value... Back to Etys etysmile.gif

In the case of the RE0, it never really gave me a wow moment. Its bass was so bad, I just couldn't enjoy it as much I would like, even though bass isn't even a high priority for me. The RE-400 is something completely different... you can't EQ a headphone to have 3D soundstage, or better quality bass, that's for sure.

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