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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 74

post #1096 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post


When i hear foggy bloated bass, that sounds like not enough driver damping, but i may be wrong. Depends which headphones youre labeling.

 

#foggybloatedbass

 

:)

post #1097 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Keep in mind the ER4 is strictly a monitor.  The thing with the bass is it is very good reproducing bass "tones" but in an effort to reproduce "live" music one would also require a certain element of a tactile emphasis of bass.  It's what differentiates bass from treble and midrange.  The problem is that the ER4 has none.  It can only reproduce bass tones and this is why most people prefer a little more viceral impact which is more realistic.

I concur with your observation.  I think I've convinced myself that the bass knob on the ALO RX MK3-B yields a little more bass with the ER4, however.  I would guess the same could be said about any form of equalization, however.

post #1098 of 4669

Has anyone tried getting them recabled? I mean I know there was APS who offered this, but I dont think he is doing much theses days?

Can they be re cabled? Say you wanted to go to a straight S from a PT etc....

How can it be done? If it could then all those many cable possibility's.......

post #1099 of 4669
I think your rite it gets lost with multi drivers.. That must be what I'm hearing when I go from my etys to the 535.. Don't get me wrong the shures sound great but just not as detailed as the etys
post #1100 of 4669
Hmm, I think it also depends on what sort of music your listening to. For instance I think they reproduce the lower registers of Cello or Piano very accurately to the live performance ( It should be noted that I use mine a great deal in recording studio's monitoring live performances). These and the new T5P's I got last week are really authentic to natural instrument I am finding. I spend a lot of time listening to live performances and I think with intimate music they convey fairly accurately bass levels.

I do think though that what is going on more is about how we perceive music now rather than actuality. I know when working on records with younger artist the expectation is for everything to be emphasized and I think that is the world we live in now. For it to work it has to be exaggerated beyond what is often natural I have found and reading on this forum I would say that is proven time and time again, not even though by the young. I see old fart members as myself falling for it as well tongue.gif

I also think a great many peoples perception of music now is exclusively through recordings rather than live and that effects things greatly. I have yet to go to a concert where bass notes are felt more than they are heard ( A great one for this as it is often over emphasized in recordings is Reggae) I think that is where I come from in terms of how I perceive bass. Don't get me wrong, if you like your bass door rattling fine, we all find our musical nirvana in personal ways but I do think it important to note that is not natural bass from an electric or non electric bass instrument, least not any i have heard that have not been distorted in the amplification of live amps and speakers!
post #1101 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

Hmm, I think it also depends on what sort of music your listening to. For instance I think they reproduce the lower registers of Cello or Piano very accurately to the live performance ( It should be noted that I use mine a great deal in recording studio's monitoring live performances). These and the new T5P's I got last week are really authentic to natural instrument I am finding. I spend a lot of time listening to live performances and I think with intimate music they convey fairly accurately bass levels.

I do think though that what is going on more is about how we perceive music now rather than actuality. I know when working on records with younger artist the expectation is for everything to be emphasized and I think that is the world we live in now. For it to work it has to be exaggerated beyond what is often natural I have found and reading on this forum I would say that is proven time and time again, not even though by the young. I see old fart members as myself falling for it as well tongue.gif

I also think a great many peoples perception of music now is exclusively through recordings rather than live and that effects things greatly. I have yet to go to a concert where bass notes are felt more than they are heard ( A great one for this as it is often over emphasized in recordings is Reggae) I think that is where I come from in terms of how I perceive bass. Don't get me wrong, if you like your bass door rattling fine, we all find our musical nirvana in personal ways but I do think it important to note that is not natural bass from an electric or non electric bass instrument, least not any i have heard that have not been distorted in the amplification of live amps and speakers!

 

I disagree.

 

My undergrad university has a fantastic music program, and regularly put on performances featuring violinists, celloists, etc. 

 

None of the Etys I've tried have been able to capture the feel of the instruments. Sure, the notes are there (mostly. There is zero sub-bass), but what's especially lacking is the "feel" of the instrument. Same goes for larger works. My favorite classical recording is Jochum's 1968 recording of Carmina Burana. I know it very well, and I use it as one of my test tracks for headphones. Here are my notes on Ave Formossissima/O Fortuna

 

 

 

Quote:
HF3: There is considerably less note weight here, though not to the extent that I was expecting. The notes are clearer, but a bit sharper. The timpani doesn't quite carry the power that the other two phones can provide, but it still packs a decent punch. Vocals are more distinguishable, and you can hear the voices in the choir more clearly. The price of this clarity is the enjoyment factor. I didn't get into the recording quite like I did with the other two phones.

 

And I'd like to point out that the HF3 has almost double the bass response of the ER-6, which in turn has even more bass than the ER4, if I recall correctly.

 

I sincerely hesitate to call a phone neutral, when it has such severely recessed bass.

post #1102 of 4669

In addition to this, take an album like Mickey Hart's Planet Drum, which is percussion based. The ERs will fail to properly represent the instruments. Heck, even my HD600 fails somewhat due to the less than visceral bass response.

post #1103 of 4669
What are you listening to the ETY's through? As I find when monitoring string instruments they do a grand job of giving a good interpretation of them. I have used them to monitor recordings both in the studio and in small halls through the mixing amp and an avalon tube stage. I agree with the drums though!
post #1104 of 4669
For visceral impact, you need speakers. Headphones and IEMs can fake it by adding excessive bass which is artificial and misses the mark. The side effect is usually a muddy sound that effects all frequencies.

I'd rather have a clear picture of what's on the recording than excessive bass trying to simulate live music or speakers. I can understand why some would prefer the extra bass though. Accuracy has many aspects, but Etys are accurate where it counts for me. If you want more than what they have to offer, listen to live music or get speakers and properly treat the room.
Edited by robm321 - 4/3/13 at 8:39am
post #1105 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

For visceral impact, you need speakers. Headphones and IEMs can fake it by adding excessive bass which is artificial and misses the mark. The side effect is usually a muddy sound that effects all frequencies.

I'd rather have a clear picture of what's on the recording than excessive bass trying to simulate live music or speakers. I can understand why some would prefer the extra bass though. Accuracy has many aspects, but Etys are accurate where it counts for me. If you want more than what they have to offer, listen to live music or get speakers and properly treat the room.

 

I seriously doubt you've listened to very many iems/headphones.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

What are you listening to the ETY's through? As I find when monitoring string instruments they do a grand job of giving a good interpretation of them. I have used them to monitor recordings both in the studio and in small halls through the mixing amp and an avalon tube stage. I agree with the drums though!
 
The effect is constant across all my sources.
post #1106 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by GN-0015 View Post

To me, it's very different. I think I prefer the bass when I'm paying attention to it. When I don't focus to it, it's pretty much got lost in the mix. When I listen specifically to it, I can hear the bass rumbles clearly with just the right amount that I want.

 

That's not what I meant.  I meant if you listen to it with the mindset that it isn't enough.  In other words, if you are listening thinking "is the bass enough?  should it be louder? does it sound right?".  If you listed to the bass in general it sounds great.  This applies to any property of sound on any IEM.  Some people don't mind a slight treble rolloff, but then someone mentions it to them and they can never hear details the same again, because they're always analyzing the treble thinking "it is rolled off, i'm missing more details"...

post #1107 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

For visceral impact, you need speakers. Headphones and IEMs can fake it by adding excessive bass which is artificial and misses the mark. The side effect is usually a muddy sound that effects all frequencies.

I'd rather have a clear picture of what's on the recording than excessive bass trying to simulate live music or speakers. I can understand why some would prefer the extra bass though. Accuracy has many aspects, but Etys are accurate where it counts for me. If you want more than what they have to offer, listen to live music or get speakers and properly treat the room.

 


I agree.  The problem is that you don't feel bass.  I couldn't agree with this at first, but now I do.  Speakers move air and your body feels shaking of air, rumbling, vibrations, etc.  This applies to real drums in a "live" space as well.  IEMs can't do that.  You can't feel it anywhere other than your ear.  So no matter how much bass you add you perceive it as more bass, but it isn't really the same.  I'm not saying er-4s is perfectly flat bass.  I've already said it's slightly low.  But most people don't want an extra few decibels at 80hz or so, they want a huge bass boost.  I find the er-4s absolutely have sub bass.  If someone isn't hearing that they're not getting the best sound from their er-4s.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

In addition to this, take an album like Mickey Hart's Planet Drum, which is percussion based. The ERs will fail to properly represent the instruments. Heck, even my HD600 fails somewhat due to the less than visceral bass response.

 

Less than visceral on the HD600?  Although it is considered fairly flat in frequency response overall (and I agree with that) I find the HD600 bass to be too much.  I eq it lower.  Now, it doesn't feel the same as a speaker, as mentioned above, so you might lack some visceral feel, but it doesn't needs more bass.  It might seem more realistic and neutral to someone that wants to hear more bass, but that doesn't make it accurately flat.  In order to get more bass feeling and the level most people are asking for you have to mask all the other frequencies by nature.  That makes them less accurate.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

None of the Etys I've tried have been able to capture the feel of the instruments.

 

I have to disagree here.  I would agree if I had them half way out of my ears or something, but for me they are the only IEM that has ever really sounded like a real instrument with anything i give it. :-o  And for the record I record all sorts of real instruments and have a lot of live music experience. :)  Just saying.  I know i've said it a million times, but I swear some people that think they are getting a good seal still aren't.  Also, again, I'm not saying they're perfect, but just closer than anything else in-ear i've heard. :-o


Edited by luisdent - 4/3/13 at 9:06am
post #1108 of 4669
I don't know anything about classical music as I really can't stand it.. Each there own. I understand that.. I listen to everything from.. Zeppelin to the stones.. From the beattles to no doubt.. And these just sound good with everything to me.. When the some calls for bottom end you get bottom end.. I can actually hear the bass lines as they are played and it doesn't just all blend in.. I like that alot in a headphone/ iems.. I haven't really got that from any other iems I have tried and I own quit a few.. I believe that I have read on here that the westone um2 shares the same one driver as the er4s.. But as good as the um2 sounds it really can't hold a note to the etys.. My opinion of course..
post #1109 of 4669

I think you misunderstand me. When I talk about visceral bass, I'm referring to frequencies below 40 Hz that are more felt than heard. You'd be shocked at how much information is down there.

 

BA based earphones have never really been able to capture this due to their sealed design. The ONLY BA based headphone that I've heard deliver this is the FAD FI-BA-SS, and that was only because its balanced air movement (fancy term for vented BA).

 

I'm not speaking based on what I want to hear. I'm drawing on my experience as a drummer, and the several live (acoustic) events I've been to.

post #1110 of 4669

Eke, I think it's a bad idea to go into the heart of Ety-head territory and post statements such as these... I hope you make it out alive! tongue_smile.gif

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