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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 680

post #10186 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyClown View Post
 

 

Just to chime in on this as I have owned both, I would say you are correct in thinking it is quite subjective.

 

In a nutshell Etymotic have a curve which they consider neutral, this is what the ER4-SR is based upon, however they recognise many of their customers like a tiny bit more bass like the Harman Kardan curve suggests is neutral, therefore rather than saying 'No, we measure it differently' they released the ER4-XR which adds a tiny bit of bass to their existing curve.

 

They both sound wonderful and after a lot of tooing and froing, I settled on a little bit of extra bass with the XR

 

Honestly though, you can't really go wrong with either  :)


I dearly wish folk would refer to that as the Sean Olive curve. There is a large marketing component involved there as they lured him out of private research and co opted him into a corporate scenario. His own mentor in fact casts more than a few aspersions on to his conclusions and manufacturing to those standards invariably becomes a matter of bias. Some do in fact conclude that manipulation of marketing to tailor sound sigs to use bass to fill out the gaps MP3 introduced has undully impacted the design of audio.

post #10187 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post
 


I dearly wish folk would refer to that as the Sean Olive curve. There is a large marketing component involved there as they lured him out of private research and co opted him into a corporate scenario. His own mentor in fact casts more than a few aspersions on to his conclusions and manufacturing to those standards invariably becomes a matter of bias. Some do in fact conclude that manipulation of marketing to tailor sound sigs to use bass to fill out the gaps MP3 introduced has undully impacted the design of audio.

 

I've heard it described as both the Olive and Welti target curve and the Harman headphone target response curve. Is it such a problem to describe it as either?

post #10188 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyClown View Post
 

 

I've heard it described as both the Olive and Welti target curve and the Harman headphone target response curve. Is it such a problem to describe it as either?


The problem only arises when one discounts the gensys and motivation behind it.

 

Humble opinion here but ety had it right long before the inustry pundits validated conclusions they had arrived at 15 years previously. The current gen has little to do with hearing perception and more to do with manipulation of market.

 

Que sera sera.

post #10189 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larethio View Post


Thanks you very much castle. I should ask you this though. In your opinion, which one of the new er 4 iems has a more neutral sound signature? Etymotic states that the er-4sr is more neutral, but i saw Tyll's video on youtube and he states that the increased bass on the er4xr makes it the most neutral of the two since he considers the er4sr to be bass light. I know that this is quite subjective, but since youre an adept on sonics, i thought id ask your opinion on the matter. I will buy one of the two later and i need help finding out which of the two creates a more realistic sound signature.

Many thanks.

eheh, you're wrong I'm a horrible audiophile, I make almost all my personal choices with practical priorities instead of audio ones, and I EQ(and other tortures) 100% of my IEMs and headphones ^_^.

for someone with zero experience with etymotic products, I'll agree with Tyll and say go for the XR without ever looking back. that's my very subjective opinion. more people will like the XR.

but you have or had an er4s, so you just have to answer that one simple question: "do I feel like it's lacking in sub frequencies? do I wish I would get a little more rumble?"  

yes=XR

no=SR

post #10190 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post

eheh, you're wrong I'm a horrible audiophile, I make almost all my personal choices with practical priorities instead of audio ones, and I EQ(and other tortures) 100% of my IEMs and headphones ^_^.
for someone with zero experience with etymotic products, I'll agree with Tyll and say go for the XR without ever looking back. that's my very subjective opinion. more people will like the XR.
but you have or had an er4s, so you just have to answer that one simple question: "do I feel like it's lacking in sub frequencies? do I wish I would get a little more rumble?"  
yes=XR
no=SR

Or if "no" jjust stock with the er4s if you still have it

Im certainly happy with mine and somehow have rejected the calling of a new etymotic toy
post #10191 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrow View Post

Or if "no" jjust stock with the er4s if you still have it

Im certainly happy with mine and somehow have rejected the calling of a new etymotic toy

For now! biggrin.gif
post #10192 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrow View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post

eheh, you're wrong I'm a horrible audiophile, I make almost all my personal choices with practical priorities instead of audio ones, and I EQ(and other tortures) 100% of my IEMs and headphones ^_^.
for someone with zero experience with etymotic products, I'll agree with Tyll and say go for the XR without ever looking back. that's my very subjective opinion. more people will like the XR.
but you have or had an er4s, so you just have to answer that one simple question: "do I feel like it's lacking in sub frequencies? do I wish I would get a little more rumble?"  
yes=XR
no=SR

Or if "no" jjust stock with the er4s if you still have it

Im certainly happy with mine and somehow have rejected the calling of a new etymotic toy


of course, but he mentioned that he would get one of the 2 at some point so I just considered that alternative.:wink_face:

the er4s certainly didn't turn to crap overnight just because something new has come.

post #10193 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrow View Post

Or if "no" jjust stock with the er4s if you still have it

Im certainly happy with mine and somehow have rejected the calling of a new etymotic toy

That may be quite a cost benefit but the er-4 is an iem that id keep in my collection for a very long time. The fact that the new ones have a metal body assures me it will endure through more than the old ones. That doesnt mean i wont treat them as one of my most valuable possesions though! smily_headphones1.gif So ill still treat them with the utmost care.

The two year warranty makes me feel even more assured.

Does anyone know if there is a list of authorized etymotic dealers that the warranty will be eligible for?

I can save a few $$ on this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ER4SR-Reference-Monitors/dp/B01GW785KQ

Thanks to all the head fiers that have helped me to this point.
post #10194 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larethio View Post


That may be quite a cost benefit but the er-4 is an iem that id keep in my collection for a very long time. The fact that the new ones have a metal body assures me it will endure through more than the old ones. That doesnt mean i wont treat them as one of my most valuable possesions though! smily_headphones1.gif So ill still treat them with the utmost care.

The two year warranty makes me feel even more assured.

Does anyone know if there is a list of authorized etymotic dealers that the warranty will be eligible for?

I can save a few $$ on this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ER4SR-Reference-Monitors/dp/B01GW785KQ

Thanks to all the head fiers that have helped me to this point.

I had been told by Ety last year that while Amazon would be covered, Amazon Warehouse would Not.. as they were 'used', i.e. warranty only covers original owner.  (extremely rare is the transferable warranty.. which I believe should be the norm.. but not a slam on Ety, just U.S. business practices on whole)

post #10195 of 10222

Hey Ety Dave.. ever think of expanding availability by selling at MusicDirect (I have credit there ! )

post #10196 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougr33 View Post
 

Hey Ety Dave.. ever think of expanding availability by selling at MusicDirect (I have credit there ! )

 

They are actually a dealer but they currently only sell our high-fidelity earplugs.

 

While I don't handle sales accounts, I'll hazard a guess that nobody would object if they decided they wanted to carry the earphones as well.  :D

post #10197 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larethio View Post

So i have a question from the difference in synergy between the er-4s and the er-4sr when it comes to a common consumer device such as my htc one m9. Now assuming that the sound pf tue two iems are practically the same, does the lower impedance and higher sensitivity produce any sonic difference on a similar volume level beyween the two? Im just asking since the er-4sr is easier to drive and carrying a dap and a phone are pain to me.

Care
So i have a question about the difference in synergy between the er-4s and the er-4sr when it comes to a common consumer device such as my htc one m9. Now assuming that the sound of the two iems are practically the same, does the lower impedance and higher sensitivity produce any sonic difference on a similar volume level between the two? Im just asking since the er-4sr is easier to drive. Im asking sonic difference purely when it comes to the impedance and sensitivity variables. Not the slightly different driver tunings that you stated earlier.

Care to share your input dave?

 

While the ER4SR has a lower impedance than the ER4S, it's not exactly a low impedance earphone at 45 ohms.  I  have not measured the output stage of the HTC one m9, but I would expect that the impedance would need to be quite a bit lower before it presented any issues.

 

To answer your question: the ER4 and ER4SR don't have identical frequency responses in general and that holds true when they are driven to the same output level.  I'll leave the significance of those differences to the listener.

post #10198 of 10222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larethio View Post


Thanks you very much castle. I should ask you this though. In your opinion, which one of the new er 4 iems has a more neutral sound signature? Etymotic states that the er-4sr is more neutral, but i saw Tyll's video on youtube and he states that the increased bass on the er4xr makes it the most neutral of the two since he considers the er4sr to be bass light. I know that this is quite subjective, but since youre an adept on sonics, i thought id ask your opinion on the matter. I will buy one of the two later and i need help finding out which of the two creates a more realistic sound signature.

Many thanks.

 

In some ways, this is more of an academic discussion than anything.  I actually had a long phone call with Tyll a couple of weeks ago and we went back and forth on this exact subject.

 

The Etymotic target curve (which has a flat bass response) is based on probe measurements at the ear drum with a flat reference signal.  There's some variability from person to person, so this is that average curve.  Others have repeated this research and come up with a nearly identical curve.

 

Tyll's argument (I'm paraphrasing to the best of my ability, so please please don't quote me on this) accounts for the fact that most people are used to listening to speakers in a real world room, which usually has some low end room reinforcement, causing a deviation from flat.

 

So what's correct?  I think the flat bass target curve fits the term "accurate" better as it is presenting it at the ear drum exactly as it is recorded.  There is practical merit to what Tyll is arguing as most people are used to a bit more low end and find it pleasing.

 

UItimately, it boils down to preference.  We decided to offer the SR and the XR because not everybody has the same taste.  You'll be shocked to find out that sometimes people often have *very* strong opinions about whether SR or XR is better.  :D

post #10199 of 10222
I got the ER4XR yesterday day and I like them pretty well.

I have been using etymotic ear plugs for years so the fit is a not issue with a mod for me. The triple flange was unbearable but I cut off the smallest flange and can wear them all day. This did not seem to cause any negative effect.

I have a pair of Tripple Fi10s that are about 10 years old and these are about the same caliber of sound quality but the ER4XR has much better tuning. The UE always had too much bass and a dip in the mids that sounded very commercial to me and not hifi. The ER4XR have more forward mids and a little less bass making them over all more enjoyable.

On the subject of bass I was surprised how much bass the etymotic had and I would have actually liked a little less. However I still feel the SR would have been a hair thin sounding for my tastes.

But the best part about the etys is the isolation. It is the best isolation I have ever had in an IEM and I have owned a handful.

The down side is they are very microphonic and the angle of the wire makes them not lay over the ear easily as other IEM.

All in all I will be keeping them.
post #10200 of 10222

Are the newer models Harder to route over the ears than the ER-4s ?  Pretty much eliminates cable noise for me.

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