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post #5101 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalb View Post
 

Yeah, placebo is a real thing.

 

minus 2:tongue_smile:

post #5102 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalb View Post
 

Yeah, placebo is a real thing.

I think cables do have an audible difference though whether this or that cable is better is subjective. I was skeptical about cables making a change and i was sure that they don't especially after getting an aftermarket cable for my TF10(didn't hear any difference really). But recently just for fun I changed back to the stock cable not expecting any change, but I heard a difference especially in staging. So yea, after hearing for myself on an IEM, i would expect even more difference on high end headphones like HD600. Not that I have tried (yet) ;)

post #5103 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophiel View Post
 

I think cables do have an audible difference though whether this or that cable is better is subjective. I was skeptical about cables making a change and i was sure that they don't especially after getting an aftermarket cable for my TF10(didn't hear any difference really). But recently just for fun I changed back to the stock cable not expecting any change, but I heard a difference especially in staging. So yea, after hearing for myself on an IEM, i would expect even more difference on high end headphones like HD600. Not that I have tried (yet) ;)


So, placebo is a real thing..  :D 


Edited by Quinto - 11/21/13 at 7:19am
post #5104 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinto View Post
 


So, placebo is a real thing..  :D 

Yes, and thinking that something is placebo can have a reverse placebo effect :p

post #5105 of 8644
Quote:dalb
 Yeah, placebo is a real thing.

I am really getting sick of people saying that cables make no difference, placebo effect, confirmation bias, etc, etc, ad hoc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

 

For the record, I was a skeptic until I changed over the lousy standard RCA interconnects between a preamp and an amp for an oxygen free copper interconnect because the one I had failed in one channel.

When I tried the system, I could not believe the difference in clarity I was hearing to the point I changed the new cable for another standard RCA interconnect.

I swapped the cables about 5 to 6 times because I could not believe the difference.

Does that sound like placebo, confirmation bias etc...?

 

I bought a Cardas cable that was 5 metres long only because I wanted to listen to my HD600's while lying on my bed reading, as the standard cable was too short.

I had tried an extension cable with a volume control, but threw it out because the control was playing up.

When I first listened to the new Cardas cable, I was again astonished at the clarity of the sound.

When I replaced the standard cable, I heard what is termed the Sennheiser veil for the first time.

 

When I got my HD650, I noticed the cable was thicker than the HD600 cable.

So, one day, out of interest, I decidet to try out all the cables I had to see what differences there were.

The Zu Mobius Silver cable reduced the laid back nature of the HD600, The Equinox cable was the best compromise of the aftermarket cables I had. The Cardas was the smoothest sounding.

The Standard HD650 cable definitely had less veil than the Standard HD600 cable, and both weren't as clear as the aftermarket cables.

 

If someone cannot hear the difference in their cables, there could be a variety of reasons, including, but not necessarily one of the following:-

Lack of hearing acuity on part of the hearer,

Lack of fidelity of the system being used,

Lack of integrity on part of the hearer to the point of being in denial as to what they are hearing.

Fear of admitting that they hear a difference because they are afraid of the scorn and other derogatory claims that would be levelled against them.

 

Remember, just because someone can't hear something someone else can doesn't mean that the one who can is a liar.

 

Just because I can't run the 100 metres in under 10 seconds doesn't mean Usain Bolt et al cannot.

Just because I can't see clearly without my glasses doesn't mean everyone else can't see without them.


Edited by wink - 11/21/13 at 8:24am
post #5106 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post
 

I am really getting sick of people saying that cables make no difference, placebo effect, confirmation bias, etc, etc, ad hoc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

 

For the record, I was a skeptic until I changed over the lousy standard RCA interconnects between a preamp and an amp for an oxygen free copper interconnect because the one I had failed in one channel.

When I tried the system, I could not believe the difference in clarity I was hearing to the point I changed the new cable for another standard RCA interconnect.

I swapped the cables about 5 to 6 times because I could not believe the difference.

Does that sound like placebo, confirmation bias etc...?

 

I bought a Cardas cable that was 5 metres long only because I wanted to listen to my HD600's while lying on my bed reading, as the standard cable was too short.

I had tried an extension cable with a volume control, but threw it out because the control was playing up.

When I first listened to the new Cardas cable, I was again astonished at the clarity of the sound.

When I replaced the standard cable, I heard what is termed the Sennheiser veil for the first time.

 

When I got my HD650, I noticed the cable was thicker than the HD600 cable.

So, one day, out of interest, I decidet to try out all the cables I had to see what differences there were.

The Zu Mobius Silver cable reduced the laid back nature of the HD600, The Equinox cable was the best compromise of the aftermarket cables I had. The Cardas was the smoothest sounding.

The Standard HD650 cable definitely had less veil than the Standard HD600 cable, and both weren't as clear as the aftermarket cables.

 

If someone cannot hear the difference in their cables, there could be a variety of reasons, including, but not necessarily one of the following:-

Lack of hearing acuity on part of the hearer,

Lack of fidelity of the system being used,

Lack of integrity on part of the hearer to the point of being in denial as to what they are hearing.

Fear of admitting that they hear a difference because they are afraid of the scorn and other derogatory claims that would be levelled against them.

 

Remember, just because someone can't hear something someone else can doesn't mean that the one who can is a liar.

 

Just because I can't run the 100 metres in under 10 seconds doesn't mean Usain Bolt et al cannot.

Just because I can't see clearly without my glasses doesn't mean everyone else can't see without them.


I'm once like you before. But after I compare cheap vs canare interconnect, I guess that's not a placebo. I try to deny but I can't since it's the truth. I just want to know how much for the HD 650 cable can improve the sound of HD 600. Because part of me said get HD 650 cable, another part said get Van Damme DiY cable for HD 600.

post #5107 of 8644

Almost anything seems to be better than the stock cables, it's just that the HD650 stock cable is slightly better than the HD600 stock cable.

post #5108 of 8644
I assume that a thicker gauge cable gives a louder volume as with speakers? I swapped cables for my speakers on numerous occasions to different gauges and silver versions etc but only noticed that the thicker gauge you go the louder the sound gets to a point but I didn't notice a change in the sound quality. When I went down in cable size all I needed to do was to bump up the volume on the amp slightly and I would get the same sound. So there is a definite change for cables but just in volume for me.

Can the same be said for headphones since it works on the same principles? Is volume change where people perceive the change and both of the people are hearing the same thing except one says there's no change is SQ while the other says there is just because of the volume. Sorry for the rant and if things are misunderstood, it's 4.30am
post #5109 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post
 

I am really getting sick of people saying that cables make no difference, placebo effect, confirmation bias, etc, etc, ad hoc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

 

For the record, I was a skeptic until I changed over the lousy standard RCA interconnects between a preamp and an amp for an oxygen free copper interconnect because the one I had failed in one channel.

When I tried the system, I could not believe the difference in clarity I was hearing to the point I changed the new cable for another standard RCA interconnect.

I swapped the cables about 5 to 6 times because I could not believe the difference.

Does that sound like placebo, confirmation bias etc...?

 

I bought a Cardas cable that was 5 metres long only because I wanted to listen to my HD600's while lying on my bed reading, as the standard cable was too short.

I had tried an extension cable with a volume control, but threw it out because the control was playing up.

When I first listened to the new Cardas cable, I was again astonished at the clarity of the sound.

When I replaced the standard cable, I heard what is termed the Sennheiser veil for the first time.

 

When I got my HD650, I noticed the cable was thicker than the HD600 cable.

So, one day, out of interest, I decidet to try out all the cables I had to see what differences there were.

The Zu Mobius Silver cable reduced the laid back nature of the HD600, The Equinox cable was the best compromise of the aftermarket cables I had. The Cardas was the smoothest sounding.

The Standard HD650 cable definitely had less veil than the Standard HD600 cable, and both weren't as clear as the aftermarket cables.

 

If someone cannot hear the difference in their cables, there could be a variety of reasons, including, but not necessarily one of the following:-

Lack of hearing acuity on part of the hearer,

Lack of fidelity of the system being used,

Lack of integrity on part of the hearer to the point of being in denial as to what they are hearing.

Fear of admitting that they hear a difference because they are afraid of the scorn and other derogatory claims that would be levelled against them.

 

Remember, just because someone can't hear something someone else can doesn't mean that the one who can is a liar.

 

Just because I can't run the 100 metres in under 10 seconds doesn't mean Usain Bolt et al cannot.

Just because I can't see clearly without my glasses doesn't mean everyone else can't see without them.

 

Oh yeah. It takes golden ears for this hogwash to work, that's right.

 

The only difference is Usain Bolt's achievements are measurable and observable and exist in the real world. While your observations and beliefs of having 'golden ears' are just... Nothing.

post #5110 of 8644

This thread is still going on and on about cables?  :blink:

post #5111 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineReggae View Post
 

 

Oh yeah. It takes golden ears for this hogwash to work, that's right.

 

The only difference is Usain Bolt's achievements are measurable and observable and exist in the real world. While your observations and beliefs of having 'golden ears' are just... Nothing.

 

Look, I used to hold similar beliefs that cables do nothing to the sound. I've tried a few before that did nothing on some iems. This summer I got to try out a silver&gold hybrid cable on my IEMs and instantly noticed a difference. Whether the difference is good will be up to the user. 

 

I'm a legitimate scientist, with certification in Computer Science, and a Bachelor's in Biology. I'm also deep into my doctorate of pharmacy program. I'm extremely familiar with the scientific method at this point in my life, and I applied it to my cable testing. I even sent it out my iems and the cable to head-fi members here in the States and in Europe. They all heard differences. 

 

Note that I said "differences", and not "improvements", as the latter can be a very subjective thing. Just don't be dismissive of what others seem to genuinely hear. It's not the proper way to approach things.

post #5112 of 8644

Fair enough I guess. I agree that if you want to hear differences, you can.

post #5113 of 8644

I guess the fair thing for anyone who thinks they hear a clear difference would be to try both cables without being able to recognize them if its possible - blind or something. That is how I tested out Amp, Cable differences a while back. I'm a objectivist since.

 

Anyway, its a dead horse and will never be a resolved problem. Objective vs Subjective arguments are pointless as both sides tend to get out of control, and lets be honest we will never ever convince everyone to either side.

 

 

--------

 

Anyway to the person who asked if the HD600 was a great option for heavy metal/post metal/black metal - well I listen to Metal a bit and I wouldn't ever do it on the  HD600 as the headphone lacks speed as far as those genres go. Sennheiser 25 II I might be worth looking into, they are phenomenal for fast metal, I also liked the DT770 and Grado RS1i. I don't really enjoy many lower end headphones for heavy metal personally though, its up to things like the HE-500, HE-6, LCD-2/X/3 for me due to their higher driver speeds and clarity.

post #5114 of 8644

Guys, please stop and move the cable disscusion to more fitting thread please? I don't want this thread closed... You see, I learn a lot by just reading this thread. Anyway, my HD600 is still going strong, and I enjoy every bit of it.

 

I just wish my Aune T1 less bright.

 

I'm wondering, is there any OTL tube AMP on USD 350 price range beside Crack and LF 336?


Edited by jipan - 11/21/13 at 4:54pm
post #5115 of 8644
Quote:
Originally Posted by jipan View Post
 

 

I'm wondering, is there any OTL tube AMP on USD 350 price range beside Crack and LF 336?

 

 

 

 

http://schiit.com/products/valhalla

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