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Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread - Page 324

post #4846 of 8157

Hello, everybody! I hope I haven't screwed up choosing the right thread to post my question.

So, I've been listening hd600+dr.dac2dx(it's usb dac+amp) almost for 5 years and always enjoyed the sound. Recently I bought some nice portable gear: fiio x3 player and sennheiser ie-80. Afterwards I realized that all this 5 years I didn't here the bass. Drums and bass guitars sound so much better with my portable stuff that I started to dislike my stationary gear even though other than the bass it sounds a way better.

 

So I want to somehow improve the bass experience on hd600+dr.dac2dx and, as I think, one of the wise ways is to get a standalone amp and connect it to the line-outs of dr.dac2dx. After looking through the market my attention was attracted by Burson Soloist, mainly coz it's just an awesome peace of gear technically. But after reading reviews I considered it to be an overshot for HD600, coz mainly this amp is used with around $2k-sound-sources and HD800 or similar $1k-headphones.

 

So, guys, please share some experience of successfully driving hd600 in terms of the bass experience without going hd800-like-price-range-catagory.

post #4847 of 8157
Tube amp.
Little dot maybe?

I have a Little dot mkiii with some nice upgraded tubes and the Bass is perfect to me.
It reaches deep and has some punch, too.
Would not compare it to denons, but to me, it sounds like it should.
But maybe you should test the Sennheiser HD 650 if you want more Bass?
post #4848 of 8157
Valhalla is known to have good pairing with 300 ohms sennheiser, check it out.
post #4849 of 8157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oversemper View Post
 

Hello, everybody! I hope I haven't screwed up choosing the right thread to post my question.

So, I've been listening hd600+dr.dac2dx(it's usb dac+amp) almost for 5 years and always enjoyed the sound. Recently I bought some nice portable gear: fiio x3 player and sennheiser ie-80. Afterwards I realized that all this 5 years I didn't here the bass. Drums and bass guitars sound so much better with my portable stuff that I started to dislike my stationary gear even though other than the bass it sounds a way better.

 

So I want to somehow improve the bass experience on hd600+dr.dac2dx and, as I think, one of the wise ways is to get a standalone amp and connect it to the line-outs of dr.dac2dx. After looking through the market my attention was attracted by Burson Soloist, mainly coz it's just an awesome peace of gear technically. But after reading reviews I considered it to be an overshot for HD600, coz mainly this amp is used with around $2k-sound-sources and HD800 or similar $1k-headphones.

 

So, guys, please share some experience of successfully driving hd600 in terms of the bass experience without going hd800-like-price-range-catagory.

 

The Bottlehead Crack has been highly recommended in this thread and apparently is the best amp you could get for the HD600. I've been really wanting to hear one myself. Unfortunately it is a DIY kit so you'd need some soldering abilities, unless you buy a used one off the forums.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CollectoR13 View Post

Tube amp.
Little dot maybe?

I have a Little dot mkiii with some nice upgraded tubes and the Bass is perfect to me.
It reaches deep and has some punch, too.
Would not compare it to denons, but to me, it sounds like it should.
But maybe you should test the Sennheiser HD 650 if you want more Bass?

 

To me the HD650 seems to be more a case of "less treble" than "more bass" unfortunately, the crucial difference being the mids. If the mids are more in line with the bass, and both are more present than the treble, then it sounds more veiled, which is the case with the HD650.

post #4850 of 8157
blueangel2323 his the nail on the head.

1. I've owned Burson gear before. Frankly, I thought it sounded boring and dull. Technically competent? Yes. But not musical. The Burson Soloist is the wrong choice for the HD600s, but not because it is expensive or over the top. It is the wrong choice because it isn't the best match. Of all the amps I've tried with the HD600 (and HD800, for that matter), the Bottlehead Crack is easily the best. Yes, it is a DIY kit, but if you watch a couple of YouTube videos and spend 20-30 minutes practicing with some spare wire, you'll be able to solder. That's how I learned. Assembling the Bottlehead kits isn't hard, nor does it require highly evolved technical skills. The directions are incredibly clear. Go slowly, read carefully, follow directions, and you will be fine. Anyone can do it.

2. When comparing bass-heavy music between the HD600s and HD650s, I've found that they sound almost identical. It's when listening to music that is mid-centric or has lots of treble that the HD650 veil becomes obvious. The HD650s sound flat and boring in comparison to the HD600s.

This is just my opinion, blah, blah, blah....take it for what it's worth.
Adam
post #4851 of 8157

Would any CONUS HD600 owners be interested in loaning or temporarily trading for a pair of HD650s? I'd like to hear the 600s but don't have the funds to purchase a pair.

 

PM me if you're interested.

post #4852 of 8157
 
Originally Posted by Oversemper View Post
 

Hello, everybody! I hope I haven't screwed up choosing the right thread to post my question.

So, I've been listening hd600+dr.dac2dx(it's usb dac+amp) almost for 5 years and always enjoyed the sound. Recently I bought some nice portable gear: fiio x3 player and sennheiser ie-80. Afterwards I realized that all this 5 years I didn't here the bass. Drums and bass guitars sound so much better with my portable stuff that I started to dislike my stationary gear even though other than the bass it sounds a way better.

 

So I want to somehow improve the bass experience on hd600+dr.dac2dx and, as I think, one of the wise ways is to get a standalone amp and connect it to the line-outs of dr.dac2dx. After looking through the market my attention was attracted by Burson Soloist, mainly coz it's just an awesome peace of gear technically. But after reading reviews I considered it to be an overshot for HD600, coz mainly this amp is used with around $2k-sound-sources and HD800 or similar $1k-headphones.

 

So, guys, please share some experience of successfully driving hd600 in terms of the bass experience without going hd800-like-price-range-catagory.

 

It's been recommended here a million times.. but I'll repeat it.. my vote goes to the BH Crack + Speedball.  The HD600 (and HD800) sound phenomenal off of them... for any genre.  I listen to a lot of hip hop, electronica, DnB, funk/soul, etc... genres with plenty of thumping, muscular bass.. and the Crack/HD600 are a total treat to listen with.  I've had the Crack for the better part of six plus months, and have absolutely no desire to find another amp for it.  It's totally satisfying.  I had the HD800 before the HD600 and felt the same way about the Crack/HD800 combo.

 

For those not wanting to build their own Crack.. I think Doc B said here (or on the BH Forum) that they've "partnered" with a third party who will offer a build-to-order service (for an additional fee, of course).

post #4853 of 8157

Just received a pair of 600s.  Surprisingly good without dedicated amplification, though I  need to get some.  Quite a step up from the 580s.  Much more comfortable than the Grade R2s.

post #4854 of 8157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oversemper View Post
 

Hello, everybody! I hope I haven't screwed up choosing the right thread to post my question.

So, I've been listening hd600+dr.dac2dx(it's usb dac+amp) almost for 5 years and always enjoyed the sound. Recently I bought some nice portable gear: fiio x3 player and sennheiser ie-80. Afterwards I realized that all this 5 years I didn't here the bass. Drums and bass guitars sound so much better with my portable stuff that I started to dislike my stationary gear even though other than the bass it sounds a way better.

 

So I want to somehow improve the bass experience on hd600+dr.dac2dx and, as I think, one of the wise ways is to get a standalone amp and connect it to the line-outs of dr.dac2dx. After looking through the market my attention was attracted by Burson Soloist, mainly coz it's just an awesome peace of gear technically. But after reading reviews I considered it to be an overshot for HD600, coz mainly this amp is used with around $2k-sound-sources and HD800 or similar $1k-headphones.

 

So, guys, please share some experience of successfully driving hd600 in terms of the bass experience without going hd800-like-price-range-catagory.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Dr.Dac2 have very good headphone amp (up to 1W in 32 Ohm load with flat frequency responce and very low output impedance), and that difference you hear, I think it is difference in the headphones sound signature. IE80 have boomy midbass, 100-200 Hz range is very upped. 
Korean goldenears.net measured both headphones, and you can compare it:
HD 600 : http://en.goldenears.net/8072
IE 80 : http://en.goldenears.net/17497

 

I really recommend you  to direct compare HD600 and IE80. Simply connect your IE80 to Dr.Dac2.

I think you will hear, that is not Dr.Dac2 lacking in bass, but IE80 simply sounds too different from HD600. That difference can not be simply corrected by replacing headphone amplifier.
You can try equalize HD600, to reach desired effect, it will be much more cost-effective.

P.S. Dr.Dac2 can be tweaked slightly by opamp rolling (2хOPA627(I/U) - LME49720(LPF) - OPA627(HP Out)), but that will be off topic in this thread.
 

post #4855 of 8157
I don't know anything about the Dr.Dac2, but it is clearly a solid state amp. I also don't know anything about the IE 80s. But I do know that bass out of the HD600s is radically different out of the Crack than it is out of any solid state amp I've tried, including Burson, Violectric V181, HiFiMAN EF-6, the ECP Audio DSHA-1, Beta 22, etc. etc.

Will using a Crack achieve what Oversemper is looking for? I don't know. I haven't heard the IE 80. But I wouldn't discount the fact that it will go a long way in improving bass on the HD600s.

Best regards,
Adam
post #4856 of 8157
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcananey View Post

I don't know anything about the Dr.Dac2, but it is clearly a solid state amp. I also don't know anything about the IE 80s. But I do know that bass out of the HD600s is radically different out of the Crack than it is out of any solid state amp I've tried, including Burson, Violectric V181, HiFiMAN EF-6, the ECP Audio DSHA-1, Beta 22, etc. etc.

Will using a Crack achieve what Oversemper is looking for? I don't know. I haven't heard the IE 80. But I wouldn't discount the fact that it will go a long way in improving bass on the HD600s.

Best regards,
Adam

Many solid state amps are designed for lower impedance cans and can't develop the voltage swing to adequately drive 300 ohm cans. IMO a good solid state amp can do a great job of it. Much of this is subjective to each individual, if you like it, then it's good for you.

post #4857 of 8157
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcananey View Post

I don't know anything about the Dr.Dac2, but it is clearly a solid state amp. I also don't know anything about the IE 80s. But I do know that bass out of the HD600s is radically different out of the Crack than it is out of any solid state amp I've tried, including Burson, Violectric V181, HiFiMAN EF-6, the ECP Audio DSHA-1, Beta 22, etc. etc.

Will using a Crack achieve what Oversemper is looking for? I don't know. I haven't heard the IE 80. But I wouldn't discount the fact that it will go a long way in improving bass on the HD600s.

Best regards,
Adam

Yes, I think it is true about of bass rise on Bottlehead Crack. Crack have a pretty much high output impedance, about a 120 Ohm. That means frequency response of HD600 will have a "bump" on a resonance frequency (100 Hz in case of HD600). It is not good in terms of "honest" and "transparent" sound, but if user is deliberately seeking for colorized sound - why not? And sweet even harmonics, of course. 
In any case, with good ss amp already in hands, and a wish for some "different" sound, tube amp maybe not a bad idea. Personally, I think, good software equalizer give that bass rise without any money loss, but it's not for me to decide.

post #4858 of 8157
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Many solid state amps are designed for lower impedance cans and can't develop the voltage swing to adequately drive 300 ohm cans. IMO a good solid state amp can do a great job of it. Much of this is subjective to each individual, if you like it, then it's good for you.

 

My G109 puts out a ton of power & voltage and generally has really good bass. The HD600's bass did improve slightly when I moved to the G109 but they are still bass-light in comparison to most of my other cans though usually only slightly. I wouldn't even characterize the G109+HD600 as bass-light really, just not emphasized at all in the bass, relative to the other frequencies (neutral). If I use the HD600's exclusively I quickly get used to their signature and the bass quantity is just about perfect. It isn't until I compare them directly with slightly bassier 'phones like the K712 that I notice they are a bit bass shy. The bass is there when called upon and all of the details are there but it stays out of the way of the other frequencies. So if you like bass emphasis they probably wouldn't satisfy you. Personally I really like their signature. It could use just a hair more very low bass extension but overall I think the smooth and neutral signature of the HD600 does a lot for it, in a lot of ways, and it keeps them interesting and satisfying despite the "boring" neutral presentation you hear initially or in comparison to some other cans.

 

I've heard the Crack increases the bass response and I can't wait to try it out. I'll be building one soon. As far as SS amps I'd say don't expect the actual quantity of bass to increase or the HD600's sound signature to change markedly. For that look into EQ'ing. I've done a lot of EQ'ing with the HD600 to great effect. With proper EQ you can get as much beautiful, clean bass out of them as you'll ever need.

post #4859 of 8157
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

Many solid state amps are designed for lower impedance cans and can't develop the voltage swing to adequately drive 300 ohm cans. IMO a good solid state amp can do a great job of it. Much of this is subjective to each individual, if you like it, then it's good for you.

 



I agree it is a matter of taste, but I don't think it is just a question of being able to generate enough voltage swing. Take a look at the solid state amps I listed. I owned all of those (and still own some of them). As a group, those are pretty powerful amps with plenty of voltage swing. It may be that the HD600s are over-damped with the low output impedance on those amps -- I can't say for sure. All I know is that the Crack pairs incredibly well with the HD600s, in a way that no other amp I've tried has been able to replicate. The closest was the Little Dot Mk VI+, but that is also an OTL tube amp.

Best regards,
Adam
post #4860 of 8157

Basically, it's not needed to spend money on another amp if you want to test how change in output impedance of the amplifier will change the sound. Pair of good 120 Ohm (or some else value) resistors, connectors, some wire and soldering iron - that's all. It is very old trick.
http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm


Edited by Vinni Sanders - 10/23/13 at 12:20pm
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