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Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread - Page 305

post #4561 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkimchi View Post

After listening to the HD600 for a night, it has changed my perspective on the whole hi-fi / audiophile industry. It mainly stems from my firm belief that the HD600's sound almost in every way better (for me) than the HD650's. At very best I would just call them different headphones, both with completely different qualities. The HD650's were just too dark for the music types I listen to (most forms of Rock) but the HD600's neutrality and balance are just perfect for my tastes. But if they're just simply different headphones, why does one cost $100 more than the other? Comparing the two side by side it isn't like one of the sets are better built than the other. If anything the cable is of a different quality however (with the HD650 cables being a bit beefier) that is definitely not something worth $100 extra at all*. These two very important headphone models in the current scene represent a completely effective and rather obvious marketing tactic in which Sennheiser is essentially making free profit from a headphone that is just "different" and doesn't cost much more to make but they added 50 to the model name and suddenly people with disposable income are willing to dish out an extra bill for whatever reasons. I am sure that this is not an issue that is exclusive to the headphone scene but is universal to the world as people are always inclined to pay more attention to the newest models as people want the best possible product even when in truth, it might just be a different product. 



 



Sorry to go on a rant on you guys but I am just shocked at how much more I enjoy an older, cheaper, and to many an inferior model as opposed to the current flagship. I remember exactly why I initially started with the HD650, and I'll even admit it that it was for the prestige and elite qualities that for some reason come with owning the flagship model. However this whole experience has taught me not to chase model numbers and prices, but the sound that I truly enjoy. 



 



*Both impressions were made on the same custom Canare cable.


 



Gosh, if only SOMEONE here would have said something...

;-)


[j.k. Sorry, I've been ranting about this for a while. Nice to have someone else saying the same thing. People just assume that because they are "50" more and cost more, the HD650s must be better...]
post #4562 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Well, the HD 700 is a completely different headphone with a lot of the new engineering that came from the HD 800. It may not sound better than the 600, but again, it partially explains the price premium.

 



True, but it is $500 more expensive.



Five.



Hundred.



Dollars.



And if that R&D didn't result in a better sounding headphone, then that money was ill-spent.
post #4563 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

The HD650 drivers are upgraded and are hand picked matched pairs (within 1dB).



I also happen to like the 600 more than the 650, but that doesnt mean the 650 isnt worth the added premium.

 



Well, let's break that statement down:

1. The HD650 drivers are upgraded.

I would disagree. I find the HD650 drivers to be worse than the HD600s.

2. The HD650 drivers are hand picked matched pairs (within 1dB).

Do we know that the HD600s are not? When coming out with a new product that is a marginal upgrade over an existing product, but which will cost more, it is not unusual for manufacturers to suddenly list a lot of "new" features of the new product. Only problem is that these "features" are equally true of the old product, they just weren't listed in the specifications anywhere. Unless Sennheiser has said that the HD600 drivers are not matched and may be off by more than 1dB, then I wouldn't qualify this as an HD650 upgrade.
post #4564 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

 

The HD600 and HD800 are similar in that careful choice of amplifier is required to get the most from them. But the need for "serious" upstream components is highly exaggerated. There are a number of amplifiers that come in below $1000 that have the needed voltage swing and "higher than zero" output impedance that pairs so well with them.

 



I couldn't agree more. Any halfway competent DAC (including the ODAC or a Schiit Modi) coupled with a Bottlehead Crack ($279) will deliver all the performance necessary to make either the HD600 or the HD800 sing. You don't need to spend a fortune, you just need to spend your money wisely on the right gear.
post #4565 of 17154

If I remember right... The HD650 was designed for the upcoming computer audio generation. It's dark and muddy I mean veiled nope, nicely warm! to compensate for badly decoded or low bit mp3's. 

 

But as it turned out, it has become a classic headphone that has stood the test of time. Because people like a sound that smooths over hard recordings. It's a great headphone imo. But much more fickle with amping compared to the 600.

post #4566 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcananey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Well, the HD 700 is a completely different headphone with a lot of the new engineering that came from the HD 800. It may not sound better than the 600, but again, it partially explains the price premium.

 



True, but it is $500 more expensive.



Five.



Hundred.



Dollars.



And if that R&D didn't result in a better sounding headphone, then that money was ill-spent.

Notice I never said the price was commensurate with performance wink.gif
post #4567 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcananey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

The HD650 drivers are upgraded and are hand picked matched pairs (within 1dB).



I also happen to like the 600 more than the 650, but that doesnt mean the 650 isnt worth the added premium.

 



Well, let's break that statement down:

1. The HD650 drivers are upgraded.

I would disagree. I find the HD650 drivers to be worse than the HD600s.

Upgrades dont assure better sound. But if you look at a photo of the two drivers side by side, the 650 driver is clearly different. Money, time, and effort went into making them - whether it paid dividends is subjective.
Quote:
2. The HD650 drivers are hand picked matched pairs (within 1dB).

Do we know that the HD600s are not? When coming out with a new product that is a marginal upgrade over an existing product, but which will cost more, it is not unusual for manufacturers to suddenly list a lot of "new" features of the new product. Only problem is that these "features" are equally true of the old product, they just weren't listed in the specifications anywhere. Unless Sennheiser has said that the HD600 drivers are not matched and may be off by more than 1dB, then I wouldn't qualify this as an HD650 upgrade.

Is is true. We don't know for sure.

My point was (is) that the 650 should not be dismissed as a "higher number" just for the sake of justifying a higher price. Effort was made to "improve" on the 600 and that alone explains the price premium. Whether the "improvements" resulted in better sound is subject to debate.

And for the record, I agree the 600 sounds better to me too. The 650 (which I used to own) is too dark and murky sounding. I replaced mine with 600's.
post #4568 of 17154

I think it boils down to the fact that improvements in sound obviously aren't objective. If you mod your car or get a faster car, there are going to be times to prove that. Here in our audiophile community, you come to this site and yell at each other instead. 

post #4569 of 17154

Although I agree overally with you to say I prefer HD600 to HD650 I find you're a bit unfair with the last iteration of HD6XX family.  For me HD650 and 600 and 580 are equal. Different flavors only. HD800 is consequently superior IMO.  the HD650 offer ( Still in my opinion) a little more lush and refinement compared to my HD580 when I did A/B comparison between the two.  Maybe HD600 offers more lush and refinement than HD580 too ? 

 

For the expensive gear I completely agree . My HD580 and my HD800 offer both a marvelous listening experience with a well built but not so expensive gear . Maybe more Hi-end gear could sound better (I didn't try myself unfortunately)  but these expensive amp or dac are not mandatory. period.

post #4570 of 17154

The 650 is only "improved" over the 600 if you want a smoother sound for pop and mp3's. The 600 was designed for the "classical music producer" in mind. 

 

Your call. 

post #4571 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post
 

Although I agree overally with you to say I prefer HD600 to HD650 I find you're a bit unfair with the last iteration of HD6XX family.  For me HD650 and 600 and 580 are equal. Different flavors only. HD800 is consequently superior IMO.  the HD650 offer ( Still in my opinion) a little more lush and refinement compared to my HD580 when I did A/B comparison between the two.  Maybe HD600 offers more lush and refinement than HD580 too ?

 

Nice post, I personally feel that the HD650 scales better with gear than the HD600 though.  Maybe it's something to do with it's sound signature being more engaging.

 

As for the HD580 and HD600, I don't believe there is much improvement to make there.  They discontinued the HD580 for a reason and that's because they're using the same drivers in the HD600.  Change out the HD580 grills to the HD600 ones and you pretty much have an HD600 for a lot less money.  However, they probably have closer driver matching in the HD600's but that's up for debate.


Edited by Poetik - 10/3/13 at 11:53am
post #4572 of 17154

Sennheiser Service response to my question to them about the small silver sticker inside the left ear cup, which can be seen glinting (annoyingly to me) behind the grille:

 

 


"It sounds to me like that is one of our new holographic product ID tags which we began using recently to help customers identify real Sennheiser products opposed to counterfeit products. There should be no harm in removing the sticker if it bothers you, but just stick it inside your headphone case and keep it rather than throwing it away. You might end up wanting it in the future to prove the authenticity of your headphones".

post #4573 of 17154
A lot of people like the 650 over the 600. I think that if you pick the right amp that compensates for the dark high end, it could very well equal or best the 600. The 600 does have a little bump in the bass which gives it a nice full sound, but the 650 is supposed to go lower. By specs, the 650 should be better. But it takes work. I'm quite content with my 600.
post #4574 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightanswer@ear View Post
 

Sennheiser Service response to my question to them about the small silver sticker inside the left ear cup, which can be seen glinting (annoyingly to me) behind the grille:

 

 


"It sounds to me like that is one of our new holographic product ID tags which we began using recently to help customers identify real Sennheiser products opposed to counterfeit products. There should be no harm in removing the sticker if it bothers you, but just stick it inside your headphone case and keep it rather than throwing it away. You might end up wanting it in the future to prove the authenticity of your headphones".

 

Thanks :)

post #4575 of 17154

My reaction to the sound of the 580 v 600 is different to the previous poster. I had use of a 580 for a few days about 3 months ago and the bass was very noticeably looser than the better-controlled 600. Both are a whole lot better than the flabby, disappointing HD598 I also auditioned recently, but to my ears, my new HD600 is a significant improvement over the 580 I auditioned. No doubt in my mind at all.

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