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Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread - Page 17

post #241 of 17113

Has anyone done any extended comparisons between the HD-650 cable and the HD-600 cable on the HD-600? Everyone in the world say's that the HD-650 cable is clearly better and worth the upgrade. I think there may be a reason Sennheiser doesn't include a better cable on the HD-600 and it's not because of being cheap! Ok, or maybe it is.

 

I did some side by side comparisons and I prefer the HD-600's default cable. Why? The HD-650 cable seems to change them too much and make them less neutral. It's very easy to tell the difference between the two. Anyone could. At first when you attach the HD-650 cable the first thing you think of is..."Wow, this adds so  much detail and treble!". I also think it adds a bit of extra bass perhaps.

 

It seems when I add the HD-650 cable it gives me the effect that the size of the soundstage has increased and there is more air between the instruments and between my ears AND vocals. Compare specific songs and I'm sure you'll agree. I was listening to an Eddie Vedder song and on the HD-600 cable the mids are much more forward and male/female vocals sound so much better and more forward. Basically most mids were so much more forward, but you had less treble and bass. The bass seems to be effected the least. The treble and soundstage the most. Strange.

 

I kept comparing female and male vocals on the HD-600 and HD-650 cable and there was clearly a difference and I'm not crazy after all. With the HD-600 cable the mids are very very slightly more forward than on the HD-650 cable, but at the same time you lose the extra treble and bass.

 

I read a similar post on another website and checked myself and there was clearly a lot of differences, but all very subtle. You get the impression of more detail on the HD-650 cable, but I don't think this is the case. For those that want a more neutral signature, try and HD-600 cable and compare it to the HD-650 cable!


Edited by tdockweiler - 4/9/11 at 7:42pm
post #242 of 17113

I'm considering buying a Matrix Mini I for my HD600s. I'm not gonna use it with any other amp so do you guys think this will be good?

Will possibly add an Asgard/Valhalla/Lyr in the future but not for a while

post #243 of 17113

trying to make up my mind about senn cables has been a thorny issue. on one hand, there are very senior head-fi members who swear that the 650 cable improves the sound of the HD600. on the other, you have stefan of stefan audio art who swears that the 600 cable is sonic superior to the 650 cable and is itself, an upgrade.

 

i've gone back and forth between the stock 600 cable and the 650 cable. there is no doubt in my mind that the 650 cable deepens bass response and adds a bit more kick. by itself, this would be a very good thing, but it also seems to blunt the highs and slightly muddy the midsection. moving back to the stock cable opens up the mids but you lose the added authority on the low end. this seems to be the opposite of what other head-fi members have experienced and i'm at a loss to explain why.

 

i wish there was a way to audition a high quality replacement cable without having to fork over the cash for one. it would be interesting to see how a cardas or APS cable compares.

 

 

post #244 of 17113
Quote:
Originally Posted by drandall View Post

trying to make up my mind about senn cables has been a thorny issue. on one hand, there are very senior head-fi members who swear that the 650 cable improves the sound of the HD600. on the other, you have stefan of stefan audio art who swears that the 600 cable is sonic superior to the 650 cable and is itself, an upgrade.

 

i've gone back and forth between the stock 600 cable and the 650 cable. there is no doubt in my mind that the 650 cable deepens bass response and adds a bit more kick. by itself, this would be a very good thing, but it also seems to blunt the highs and slightly muddy the midsection. moving back to the stock cable opens up the mids but you lose the added authority on the low end. this seems to be the opposite of what other head-fi members have experienced and i'm at a loss to explain why.

 

i wish there was a way to audition a high quality replacement cable without having to fork over the cash for one. it would be interesting to see how a cardas or APS cable compares.

 

 


Well - I got the Cardas cable for the HD 600 - and I am enjoying the results. I got mine for around $100US...
post #245 of 17113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Has anyone done any extended comparisons between the HD-650 cable and the HD-600 cable on the HD-600? Everyone in the world say's that the HD-650 cable is clearly better and worth the upgrade. I think there may be a reason Sennheiser doesn't include a better cable on the HD-600 and it's not because of being cheap! Ok, or maybe it is.

 

I did some side by side comparisons and I prefer the HD-600's default cable. Why? The HD-650 cable seems to change them too much and make them less neutral. It's very easy to tell the difference between the two. Anyone could. At first when you attach the HD-650 cable the first thing you think of is..."Wow, this adds so  much detail and treble!". I also think it adds a bit of extra bass perhaps.

 

It seems when I add the HD-650 cable it gives me the effect that the size of the soundstage has increased and there is more air between the instruments and between my ears AND vocals. Compare specific songs and I'm sure you'll agree. I was listening to an Eddie Vedder song and on the HD-600 cable the mids are much more forward and male/female vocals sound so much better and more forward. Basically most mids were so much more forward, but you had less treble and bass. The bass seems to be effected the least. The treble and soundstage the most. Strange.

 

I kept comparing female and male vocals on the HD-600 and HD-650 cable and there was clearly a difference and I'm not crazy after all. With the HD-600 cable the mids are very very slightly more forward than on the HD-650 cable, but at the same time you lose the extra treble and bass.

 

I read a similar post on another website and checked myself and there was clearly a lot of differences, but all very subtle. You get the impression of more detail on the HD-650 cable, but I don't think this is the case. For those that want a more neutral signature, try and HD-600 cable and compare it to the HD-650 cable!



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by drandall View Post

trying to make up my mind about senn cables has been a thorny issue. on one hand, there are very senior head-fi members who swear that the 650 cable improves the sound of the HD600. on the other, you have stefan of stefan audio art who swears that the 600 cable is sonic superior to the 650 cable and is itself, an upgrade.

 

i've gone back and forth between the stock 600 cable and the 650 cable. there is no doubt in my mind that the 650 cable deepens bass response and adds a bit more kick. by itself, this would be a very good thing, but it also seems to blunt the highs and slightly muddy the midsection. moving back to the stock cable opens up the mids but you lose the added authority on the low end. this seems to be the opposite of what other head-fi members have experienced and i'm at a loss to explain why.

 

i wish there was a way to audition a high quality replacement cable without having to fork over the cash for one. it would be interesting to see how a cardas or APS cable compares.

 

 


 

I'm glad you guys took the time to listen for yourselves and did not let naysayers cloud your judgement about cables.

 

My personal experience with the 650 cable on the 600 was that of added bass and treble, with a slightly larger soundstage and slightly less grain. Going back to the stock cable didn't open up the mids so much as it "uncovered" it because of the lower amount of bass/treble. I personally found both cables to be mediocre...but the 650 cable was the better of the two. (My friends and I did a lot of testing and had 3 other aftermarket cables on hand to compare as well...over a period of weeks)

 

The APS cable literally takes the positive aspects of both cables and adds a few of its own. It's definitely more transparent/fast than either cable, making transients more realistic and the overall sound more detailed. This also has the effect of adding clarity, making the two stock cables sound a bit fuzzy/boomy in comparison.

 

I really have to stress one thing...cables benefit from a good signal. A good cable increases transparency by degrading less of the signal. If your upstream gear sucks, be prepared for the possibility of *worse* sound with an aftermarket cable. The fuzziness/blurring/smearing of the stock cables can hide details and flaws at the same time as a result of signal degradation. I've experienced this myself and was ready to sell some of my upgraded cables because of it, until I tested them with better equipment. 

This is one of the reasons why I (and many others) recommend getting some high quality gear behind the cans before focusing on the cable.


Edited by Shahrose - 4/9/11 at 10:58pm
post #246 of 17113

Funny, I was about to make a post of how everyone claims the 650 cable to be better but Stefan Audio says the 600 cable is of better quality. It's on their website somewhere. As for myself, I was unable to tell the difference between the two.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Has anyone done any extended comparisons between the HD-650 cable and the HD-600 cable on the HD-600? Everyone in the world say's that the HD-650 cable is clearly better and worth the upgrade. I think there may be a reason Sennheiser doesn't include a better cable on the HD-600 and it's not because of being cheap! Ok, or maybe it is.

 

I did some side by side comparisons and I prefer the HD-600's default cable. Why? The HD-650 cable seems to change them too much and make them less neutral. It's very easy to tell the difference between the two. Anyone could. At first when you attach the HD-650 cable the first thing you think of is..."Wow, this adds so  much detail and treble!". I also think it adds a bit of extra bass perhaps.

 

It seems when I add the HD-650 cable it gives me the effect that the size of the soundstage has increased and there is more air between the instruments and between my ears AND vocals. Compare specific songs and I'm sure you'll agree. I was listening to an Eddie Vedder song and on the HD-600 cable the mids are much more forward and male/female vocals sound so much better and more forward. Basically most mids were so much more forward, but you had less treble and bass. The bass seems to be effected the least. The treble and soundstage the most. Strange.

 

I kept comparing female and male vocals on the HD-600 and HD-650 cable and there was clearly a difference and I'm not crazy after all. With the HD-600 cable the mids are very very slightly more forward than on the HD-650 cable, but at the same time you lose the extra treble and bass.

 

I read a similar post on another website and checked myself and there was clearly a lot of differences, but all very subtle. You get the impression of more detail on the HD-650 cable, but I don't think this is the case. For those that want a more neutral signature, try and HD-600 cable and compare it to the HD-650 cable!



 

post #247 of 17113

I don't believe in cable upgrades, especially those that cost as much as the headphones. blink.gif Here's a thread I started a while back wondering about upgrading the HD600's cable, and I got a great reply with a link to blind tests on all sorts of different cables. So since then I've never looked into cables or bothered with them.


http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/539860/sennheiser-hd600-with-a-cable-upgrade#post_7279856

post #248 of 17113
The differences are audible bur marginal - changing the cable is as much to do with build as with sound quality.
post #249 of 17113

I was never a cable upgrade believer until I had upgraded my HD600 to the cardas one.  The cable just opened up the mids and made the highs more clearer.  Everything just sounds more clearer.  The cardas cable even turned me from disliking the HD580 to loving it!

post #250 of 17113
Quote:
Originally Posted by sysfail View Post

I don't believe in cable upgrades, especially those that cost as much as the headphones. blink.gif Here's a thread I started a while back wondering about upgrading the HD600's cable, and I got a great reply with a link to blind tests on all sorts of different cables. So since then I've never looked into cables or bothered with them.


http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/539860/sennheiser-hd600-with-a-cable-upgrade#post_7279856


Ah another blind follower I see. Take the initiative to try for yourself before placing your trust in others' findings.

 

post #251 of 17113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post




Ah another blind follower I see. Take the initiative to try for yourself before placing your trust in others' findings.

 


Even if there was a difference, I don't think the difference would be worth as much as the headphones themselves. Something along the lines of ~$50 I'd understand for a cable.

 

post #252 of 17113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post




Ah another blind follower I see. Take the initiative to try for yourself before placing your trust in others' findings.

 

 

Ahh, but I have.  HD 600 cable vs HD 650 cable.  Zero difference whatsoever subjectively.  Same as any other cable test I've done other than moving up drastically in wire gauge when using low-impedance, inefficient speakers.

 

But that could be confirmation bias, just like every other subjective, uncontrolled test is subject to.

post #253 of 17113
I trust my eyes. Having seen how the last three inches of wire inside the HD-600 and HD-650 are literally hair thin plain copper wires, I'll never view the cable-upgrade stuff as anything other than risible.
post #254 of 17113

Just because you didn't hear a difference doesn't mean there isn't to others. Personally if I didn't hear a difference, I'd be saying the same thing maybe. I think the difference between the stock HD-600 and HD-650 cable is kind of subtle and you need to do lots of side by side comparisons with songs you've listened to thousands of times perhaps. Some of us have better ears than others (not me, don't know and don't care!) and are better trained at spotting the differences (not saying I am, but getting better at this!). I think if people feel that the difference of a stock cable and a $300 cable is worth it, then go right ahead. I actually now hate the HD-650 cable on the HD-600 after comparing it for maybe an hour! It seems to take away from what I like about the HD-600. For some people, $300 is worth it for a 5% improvement! Especially if it's their favorite headphone and listen to it all day for work.

 

For me, since I'm not as serious as some of you with music, I probably could never justify buying a $300 cable. I guess it's possible if I had one on a loaner, but it'd have to offer some huge improvements! I think the biggest change would be going from a copper cable to a silver one. I do have to admit that seeing $800+ headphone cable makes me a bit sick. There HAS to be a massive markup on something like that!

 

The first time I knew for sure that a cable made a difference in the sound is when I broke my DJ100. I bought some new cable for it, but it was just a dead driver. I ended up not having any use for the silver wire so I put it on my KSC75 that was collecting dust. That was quite a funny experience and obviously I don't suggest doing that! I kind of did that for my own amusement.

 

For my home theater system I can't tell the difference between speaker wire unless it's a different gauge of wire. Obviously side by side comparisons of speaker wire is much more difficult. Especially since I only have under $300 JBL and Infinity speakers.

 

I haven't attempted to see if I can hear a difference between interconnects. Right now I'm using Monoprice cables and they're really thick and doing just fine!

 

I still do get a good laugh when I see about $13,000 power cables or HDMI cables. I'd rather have a new used car. I wish I had that kind of money to spend on cables! Not that I would.

 

BTW I was also recently on the fence about synergy with different amps. I wanted to believe that the differences are tiny, but I don't find that to be the case. It seems I learn some new things everyday. One reason is that I found out that I love my K702 with the E9, but not so  much with the Asgard. Who would have thought that could ever happen?

 

Just to settle this cable thing once and for all I might just go out and buy a nice $200 cable and see if it's worth it. I might be surprised. I'll just have to find someone that has a good return policy normal_smile%20.gif

I did come across one website that sells a $110 silver cable. Headphile or something. Not sure if it's any good. Seems like a fair price since silver wire is expensive unless you get it in bulk.

I guess to save money maybe I could just make my own cable, but I'm lazy and my soldering skills are not the best. I sure wish the Sennheiser connectors were easier to find.

post #255 of 17113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackbeardBen View Post

Ahh, but I have.  HD 600 cable vs HD 650 cable.  Zero difference whatsoever subjectively.  


X2.  We can take this to the science forum and debate this like real devotees of sound, psychology & empirical observation.  But I'd rather sing the praises of HD600.  My other good headphones all cost 2-4x more than the HD600 (Ultrasone Ed 8, RS-1, D7000) but as soon as my wife goes to bed & I can take off my closed headphones, I always find myself listening to HD600.

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