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Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread - Page 154

post #2296 of 17154

I mean fit say a bad USB cable or what not underneath the pads, like the phatpad mods commonly done on other headphones like the ATH-AD series for example.

post #2297 of 17154
My HD600's just rocked up! I'm smitten already by the packaging. They look so different in real life to the pictures I've seen. The granite style pattern looks really cool
post #2298 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

I could never justify spending $200+ on a cable. I could get similar results with a DIY cable and save money.

I imagine that most of the costs for these expensive cables are just due to labor and a markup from running a business.

 

Don't listen to these weirdos that somehow think there is no difference with ANY cable and just keep trying to preach to people. I won't say there is, but best way is to try them out for yourself.

I bet none of them have tried ANY and are just repeating what someone else told them. I did this too once.

 

I couldn't hear an ounce of difference without my computer DAC and a good amp.

 

Right now i'm using all stock cables. Double Helix offers some differences, but it seems to make the HD-600 less warm sounding.

Sometimes headphones are actually WORSE with upgraded cables. The ALO SXC was nice on the Q701..at first. Then I started to hate it.

It just made it even more revealing and analytical. Everything sounded thinner and much more distant. Don't have a clue why.

 

I think the differences are due to capacitance. The HD-600 seems to sound best (IMO) with a low capacitance wire such as Belden 1192A or similar.

I HATE the Sennheisers with Canare.

 

A DIY recable would cost less than $30. $20 of that is in the Cardas plugs.

 

BTW IMO a headphone cable has never made more than say a 5% difference/improvement. The biggest difference i've ever heard was when I recabled my HD-598 straight to the drivers with cheap Mogami.

It's probably just because the stock wiring is very very thin. Who knows. Actually maybe the 5% is a bit off, since I'd probably hate the Q701 with a silver cable. Even silver plated copper was bad.

 

So basically the biggest difference is how bright/warm the sound of a headphone will be. Very minor differences. I can see how using a silver cable with the HD-650 could "Wow" some people into thinking it's so much better.

I imagine silver would make the 650 less fuller sounding and a lot thinner. Not sure why. Isn't silver a low capacitance wire?

 

Spending $30 on a DIY cable upgrade is a fun project. Making an HD-600 cable is actually way easier than making one for the Q701 with those awful mini-XLR plugs.

I did this once and that's what got me interested in making my own cables. I prefer Monoprice and Mogami biggrin.gif

 

For the record, I don't have experience with aftermarket cables aside from using the HD650 cable on my HD600, which has made no noticeable difference for me so far (just got it a few days ago).

 

I doubt that everyone who has made the 'snake oil' argument has zero experience with recabling.

 

I think the reason why a lot of us feel very skeptical about the potential improvements of recabling is because of exactly the kind of language you've used here. You claim that recabling never makes more than a 5% difference (which a lot of the people here would probably never be able to notice) and yet you claim that you HATE the HD600 with Canare cables. No offense man, you've obviously contributed a whole lot to this community over the years, but I can't take you seriously because of how often you use such extreme language. You apparently hate the HD600 when a Canare cable changes it just 5%. You hate the DJ100 when unamped even though everyone else says amping doesn't effect it. You think the HD580 is way better than the HD600 even though everyone else says they sound virtually identical (probably the only difference being very small manufacturing variances which exist even within the exact same headphone model). I just don't know man.... either your ears are way more sensitive than anyone else's or you're using way too extreme of language to explain what are actually very miniscule differences that most people would never notice or base their headphone judgements on.


Edited by devhen - 12/10/12 at 7:11am
post #2299 of 17154

I'll take a 5% increase in anything.  In this hobby 5% can make or break your decision on a headphone.  5% is huge.  IMO..

post #2300 of 17154

Obviously a 5% improvement is a good thing but such a small improvement will always be susceptible to expectation bias etc. I think even the most experienced sound engineers would be doubtful of the reality of such a small change. Our brains have a way of changing what we hear, without us realizing, so any change up to 5% is hard to quantify and trust. Not to mention, when you're paying hundreds of dollars for a 5% increase the law of diminishing returns is so outrageous at that point that I think you'd be better off putting that money toward a headphone upgrade whose improvements would be obvious and much more than 5%.

 

Don't get me wrong, if you know for a fact that the sound quality has improved 5% then yes, that is great. My point is that any change as small as that is hard to trust, especially when the hundreds of dollars (or the time and effort DIY'ing a cable) you've spent are encouraging you to believe there is an improvement.

post #2301 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

Obviously a 5% improvement is a good thing but such a small improvement will always be susceptible to expectation bias etc. I think even the most experienced sound engineers would be doubtful of the reality of such a small change. Our brains have a way of changing what we hear, without us realizing, so any change up to 5% is hard to quantify and trust. Not to mention, when you're paying hundreds of dollars for a 5% increase the law of diminishing returns is so outrageous at that point that I think you'd be better off putting that money toward a headphone upgrade whose improvements would be obvious and much more than 5%.

 

Don't get me wrong, if you know for a fact that the sound quality has improved 5% then yes, that is great. My point is that any change as small as that is hard to trust, especially when the hundreds of dollars (or the time and effort DIY'ing a cable) you've spent are encouraging you to believe there is an improvement.

Without controlled testing those kind of claims are meaningless, imo. Expectation bias is a huge factor in much of our perceptions of audio gear. It's pretty hard, if not impossible, to avoid it. Even the appearance of a piece of gear/cable/phone can influence us subconsciously. that's why they do double blind testing. And I DO have some experience with aftermarket cables. You have to be able to hear the difference consistently in a blind test for it to have any meaning other than anecdotal 

post #2302 of 17154

Two words:

 

Expectation bias.

post #2303 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrAdrian View Post

I mean fit say a bad USB cable or what not underneath the pads, like the phatpad mods commonly done on other headphones like the ATH-AD series for example.


Just looked up and tried it. Can't find any more info on it, bu am I supposed to glue it on or something? Tried a few junk cables and none of them stayed in place.

 

EDIT : Got it to stay on but I couldn't hear any difference, or if it helped the more worn pads catch up to the fresher set.


Edited by ProtegeManiac - 12/10/12 at 10:11am
post #2304 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgjy View Post

Two words:

 

Expectation bias.

Probably should be required reading, starting in high school, but people like to be fooled I think. Even a review from a prestigious stereo magazine can influence what we think we're hearing. I guess we're so easily bored by the music itself that we need to indulge in all kinds of gear upgrades(even cables, interconnects, plugs, etc), some of which don't offer any significant improvement other than what our brain manufacturers.  

post #2305 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Probably should be required reading, starting in high school, but people like to be fooled I think. Even a review from a prestigious stereo magazine can influence what we think we're hearing. I guess we're so easily bored by the music itself that we need to indulge in all kinds of gear upgrades(even cables, interconnects, plugs, etc), some of which don't offer any significant improvement other than what our brain manufacturers.  


I guess people also like the idea that their setup can still be improved upon, that stuff can still be made to sound even better.

 

Kind of like with computer games such as Diablo2, where your character becomes uninteresting once you have all the best gear and reached a high level.

post #2306 of 17154

Still so torn, if I could get a Sennheiser authorized reseller refurbished pair of HD600's for $208+tax or HD650's for $308+tax ($100 difference, but 50% increase overall, though both great savings)

 

Which would you go for?

 

The reseller seems to be getting bad reviews, but if I can physically pick up the item I see no loss in giving it a try.

 

I have HD595 and uDAC2-HP but I want to upgrade them both eventually, starting with the cans.

 

I really wish Amazon would do a sweet deal on either pair again, then I wouldn't think twice.


Edited by earphiler - 12/10/12 at 10:17am
post #2307 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by earphiler View Post

Still so torn, if I could get a Sennheiser authorized reseller refurbished pair of HD600's for $208+tax or HD650's for $308+tax ($100 difference, but 50% increase overall, though both great savings)

 

Which would you go for?

 

The reseller seems to be getting bad reviews, but if I can physically pick up the item I see no loss in giving it a try.

 

I have HD595 and uDAC2-HP but I want to upgrade them both eventually, starting with the cans.

 

I really wish Amazon would do a sweet deal on either pair again, then I wouldn't think twice.


If it were one headphone I bought in a blue moon and was going to spend hours upon hours with it and didn't plan to replace it for a very long time, I'd just spend the extra 100 bucks. That's what I would do in that situation.

post #2308 of 17154

My headphones sound better after I drink a glass of wine and when I wear orange. wink.gif

 

And how come aftermarket "upgrades" always "improve" the sound?

post #2309 of 17154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana Woman View Post


I guess people also like the idea that their setup can still be improved upon, that stuff can still be made to sound even better.

 

Kind of like with computer games such as Diablo2, where your character becomes uninteresting once you have all the best gear and reached a high level.

 

  Yupe..could not have say it better

  i also feels different people has different standard of satisfaction when listening to music ..

  some who are more artistic prefers music that have life in it .. it moves them emotionally when listening to it.

  Unfortunately, i am amongst them . Fortunately, HD600 provides me the chance

post #2310 of 17154

just wanted to say I am an new convert to the HD600.  I came from the HE400 which was not comfortable for me

to wear and I quickly developed tinnitus, I really prefer the presentation of the HD600 which may not be the concensus

on here.  I was nervous about not having a dedicated headphone amp for them and hooked them up on my Fisher

500C and they sound great, they sound great on my old Marantz 2275 as well.  These are my favorite headphones to

date and I like the bass.  The only downfall at all is that my ears seem to get hot in these but it's not a dealbreaker.

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