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Sennheiser HD 600 Impressions Thread - Page 115

post #1711 of 17676

OMG I just had to stop reading this is getting ridiculous.

 

Mike is the reason these aftermarket headphone companies are in business...gotta love placebo!!!

post #1712 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

I'm in love with the HD600 again. ODAC, O2 and HD600... How can it be possible to get such good sound at such a deal?! 

I know this is cliche, but I miss my HD600's. I've been thinking about buying another pair. I sold my O2 a few months ago with plans to get the ODA. Still waiting...
post #1713 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by N0sferatu View Post

OMG I just had to stop reading this is getting ridiculous.

 

Mike is the reason these aftermarket headphone companies are in business...gotta love placebo!!!

 

Expectation bias is a huge factor. It might save a lot of folks a lot of money if they'd just 'google' that term. We're all easy prey to that, especially if we're unaware how it works. But we like to be fooled....we want it....it's an escape from the fact that we're bored with the music itself. If the music is truly engaging we're not bothered thinking about the 1 or 2% we're missing....or the imaginary improvements we can get with $450 interconnects. When we're not engaged with the music, we'll go to absurd lengths to escape the emptiness and boredom of our lives. I've been down that road enough times myself to know how it works.

post #1714 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

I'm in love with the HD600 again. ODAC, O2 and HD600... How can it be possible to get such good sound at such a deal?! 

Tell me more!!!

I'm looking at purchasing the Odac and o2 (with a dedicated mini netbook) for a portable rig...ok so maybe transportable-with-out-constant-need-for-outlet might be a better description. So i have this whole elaborate plan on how to do this and make it all fit in a relatively small brief case. And I intend to use an iem with it. But this would be far better quality than my current home rig (fiio e 10 ---> symetrix 304--->hd 600) So can you tell me more about odac o2 hd600 synergy?

post #1715 of 17676

'placebo' reality seems to be that you're not going to audition something like jena headphone cable because you believe that sennheiser is putting a great deal of thought and money into the OEM cable. that's a placebo of wishful thinking.

 

at least try some 650 cable and see if you can tell the difference between OEM 600 and OEM 650 cable. if you can, then you'll have a clue about how the wire and its capacitance effects the way certain frequencies arrive in sync at the headphone. the 650 wires are cheap and you can get them from Amazon.


Edited by mikebauer - 9/9/12 at 10:16am
post #1716 of 17676

I'm glad you mentioned capacitance Mike! Now we can have an intelligent discussion.

 

I visited the Jena Labs website to get the specifications (resistance, inductance, capacitance, insulation material, etc.) for their wires. I read all about their "special extrusion process that allows the insulation to exert a high inward radial force on the wire strands, thus reducing audio smearing micro-vibration" and their "Deep Immersion Cryogenic treatment" that causes "the crystal boundaries of metallic conductors to align more closely with one another and become more conductive and ‘quieter’...When conducting an electric signal, treated wire will produce less micro-diode-effect noise, less impurity inclusion field disturbance and less transverse energy wave noise generation."

 

All very fascinating, but where are the specs?

 

Computer companies tell you the processor speed, RAM amount, hard drive size, graphics card specs, etc.

Car companies provide horsepower, fuel economy, interior/exterior dimensions, etc. information for their products.

Headphone companies provide impedance, sensitivity, frequency response, weight, etc. data

Food companies publish the calories, fat, carbohydrate, etc. amounts for their products.

 

So what are the electrical characteristics of Jena Labs Ultrawire? Beldin provides detailed specifications (insulation, shield, jacket, operating temperature range, electrical characteristics, etc.) for all of their wires, how come Jena Labs doesn't?

 

Oh, I thought this was interesting too. According to the Jena Labs website:

  • Our RCA type Cardas / JENA modified connectors can be ordered with Gold Plating instead of the Rhodium Plating which is standard.
  • Additionally the XLR types can also be ordered with Gold Plated pins instead of the normal Silver Plating which is stock. These will have black housings.

 

    The general effect is a slightly warmer sound with the Gold Plating... The Rhodium is known for its more neutral sound profile.

 

So I'm just wondering Mike, when you bought your interconnects, which plugs did you choose? wink.gif


Edited by palmfish - 9/9/12 at 12:48pm
post #1717 of 17676

i'm so happy for you. but, i'm only about actually using the wire, and i won't bet getting the RCA's or the XLR's, cause they're just part of the problem. direct wiring into your source is the best.

post #1718 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

"radio shack realist: do you know this for a fact"

 

Fact? You want to talk about facts? Well, what can I say?

 

I saw elitist, condescending, defensive, and sarcastic language in your post, but I didn't see any facts. Well, I suppose if I had spent thousands of dollars on snake oil, I would cling to my subjective proclivities and violently repel all invasions of fact and objectivity too.

 

Since you have already demonstrated your degree of tolerance to opposing viewpoints, I won’t confuse the issue by trying to turn this into a factual discussion. I won't mention any of the papers written by industry luminaries (Floyd Toole, Roger Russell, Douglas Self, etc.) that scientifically debunk cable (and other audiophile) mythology, and I won’t provide links to any of the many documented double-blind tests that support their expert opinions. I won't ask you to explain why or how boutique cables can sound "better" than lamp cord, and I won't ask you to provide specifications (capacitance, resistance, etc.) for these fancy cables. Although I'd love to see it, I won't ask you to post any before and after measurements that show an improvement in the accuracy/response of the HD600 as a result of your endeavors.

 

Even though I wonder why you would install a $400 cable on a $250 headphone, I will not ask you for an explanation. I won't even attach a picture of the inside of your SACD player and ask you how this  $400 headphone cable can overcome the two penny wiring, relays, fuses, caps and resistors that are upstream. I won't ask you if you know the output impedance of the 777ES gain stage. And since I have already asked, without receiving a response, what benefit there is to hard wiring the headphones rather than using the headphone jack, I won't bring it up again.

 

I also won’t try to impress you with my exquisite taste in music or the scope and format of my collection (although I will say that it includes a nice selection of works from the Baroque Period, among others; but, alas not a single Violin Partita frown.gif).

 

Nope, none of that. All I’m going to say is that I am very glad that you get such great pleasure from your audio equipment and accessories, and I believe you are worthy of all the finest products that Jena Labs and similar companies have to offer.

That was such an owning post. Good job.

 

Not on the cable thing is my statement pointed at as I would need to test many aftermarket cables before making a point of observation and remember that we all hear different. Some members even if they can tell many things apart, can't tell things smaller than variable X apart from another. My statement was more pointed at that there are MUCH more cost worthy things to upgrade in a system that uses a $399 headphone (MAP pricing)  with a budget of $400.


Edited by bowei006 - 9/9/12 at 1:31pm
post #1719 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebauer View Post

i'm so happy for you. but, i'm only about actually using the wire, and i won't bet getting the RCA's or the XLR's, cause they're just part of the problem. direct wiring into your source is the best.


I don't understand. Are you saying your interconnects are hard-wired too?

post #1720 of 17676
You know what Mike, never mind. I don't want to know.

I've given you ample opportunity to have an intelligent conversation with me and you have refused every time.

I shouldn't have humored you for as long as I did, but I was enjoying your responses and ended up "feeding the troll" more than I should have. I'm done now.

Enjoy your music Mike!

Best Regards,

Palmfish
Edited by palmfish - 9/9/12 at 4:41pm
post #1721 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebauer View Post

'placebo' reality seems to be that you're not going to audition something like jena headphone cable because you believe that sennheiser is putting a great deal of thought and money into the OEM cable. that's a placebo of wishful thinking.

 

at least try some 650 cable and see if you can tell the difference between OEM 600 and OEM 650 cable. if you can, then you'll have a clue about how the wire and its capacitance effects the way certain frequencies arrive in sync at the headphone. the 650 wires are cheap and you can get them from Amazon.

So how do you counter bias of either sort....bias in favor of, or bias against....with science, or with subjective testimonies? As you know, there's not the slightest bit of scientific evidence proving your theories, nor can they stand up to a dbt. It seems more like religion than science....or maybe leprechauns and unicorns.

post #1722 of 17676

hey guys just another question i thought i throw in on this subject. This link also discredits vacuum tubes (amps i assume) as having better synergy with anything. He says solid states are superior in every way. thoughts comments?

post #1723 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecansmancan View Post

hey guys just another question i thought i throw in on this subject. This link also discredits vacuum tubes (amps i assume) as having better synergy with anything. He says solid states are superior in every way. thoughts comments?

Interesting question but probably deserves to be taken up in the amp forum. but, yeah, basically he's saying that all tubes are doing is adding a pleasing 'coloration' or distortion to the signal. Some people call that 'warmth',  and some people feel tubes have better synergy with certain headphones. I have no comment on that last point, since I've only owned ss, other than tube guitar amps, which are purposely over driven into distortion for effect....ala Jimi Hendrix  and countless other rock and blues guitarists.


Edited by lejaz - 9/9/12 at 6:20pm
post #1724 of 17676

exactly so then i wonder is it technically placebo effect, or simply personal preference. Like even on the note of guitar amps, i love the raw sound of those tube amps. Can distortion be a good thing in this case? I guess it all sorta comes back to personal preference. And to some extent i think even the placebo effect can be a good thing. For example, if you get that $$$$ cable and you honestly think it sounds better. ha well more power to you.

post #1725 of 17676
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecansmancan View Post

if you get that $$$$ cable and you honestly think it sounds better. ha well more power to you.

Have you ever read "The Emporer's New Clothes" by Hans Christian Andersen?
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