Sennheiser HD 600 Appreciation Thread - Page 7

Yea I definitely recommend the HD650 cable over the HD600 cable. Not the best option, but noticeably better than the 600 cable.

When mine wears out, I'll go for it. I'm eying the Musiland now. Is it going to be a lot "better" than the E16? Hopefully I'll have a few chances to try different stuff at the Bay Area meet.

Still waiting for mine to come in! The wait is killing me. Running it off an Asgard

Mine should come in tomorrow and I'll have it by tuesday. 

All I have is a PA2V2. 

Should I buy: a Schiit asgard, e11(when it comes out), schiit valhalla, musiland 02, ld mkIII, or e16combooo?

@Ssavage- the E16 combo is nice for the simple fact that it gives you a good DAC that you can simply un-dock and use as a portable amp. i think it's a fantastic piece of work and the price is right too.

if you had a DAC, i'd recommend the Asgard any day of the week. If you can afford to get a better DAC in the future, i'd say stick with the Asgard for now, and enjoy the fruits of upgraditis once you get the new DAC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxps26 

@Ssavage- the E16 combo is nice for the simple fact that it gives you a good DAC that you can simply un-dock and use as a portable amp. i think it's a fantastic piece of work and the price is right too.

if you had a DAC, i'd recommend the Asgard any day of the week. If you can afford to get a better DAC in the future, i'd say stick with the Asgard for now, and enjoy the fruits of upgraditis once you get the new DAC.

so an amp doesnt work w/o a DAC?

Right, an amp has to be fed an analog audio signal (which would be the output of a DAC).  There are DAC/amp combos out there, where you feed a digital signal in, and get an amplified analog signal out (straight to your headphones).  But if it's just an amp, you'll have to have a DAC in the chain somewhere if you want to play digital music (that DAC may be built into a CD player, our a sound card in your PC, etc). 

An amp will work without a DAC, but what a DAC essentially does is take all the work of converting digital data into audible music away from your computer - in other words, it's an external soundcard. The Benefits of a DAC are lower noise, distortion and one more thing to brag about

in all seriousness, a good DAC works to a degree of excellence far beyond what your average (heck, even outstanding) computer could do. combine a clean, undistorted signal from a DAC with the muscle of a great Class-A amp, and feed that into a good set of cans like the HD600 - and you'll be surprised, I guarantee it.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssavage 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxps26 

@Ssavage- the E16 combo is nice for the simple fact that it gives you a good DAC that you can simply un-dock and use as a portable amp. i think it's a fantastic piece of work and the price is right too.

if you had a DAC, i'd recommend the Asgard any day of the week. If you can afford to get a better DAC in the future, i'd say stick with the Asgard for now, and enjoy the fruits of upgraditis once you get the new DAC.

so an amp doesnt work w/o a DAC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxps26 

An amp will work without a DAC, but what a DAC essentially does is take all the work of converting digital data into audible music away from your computer - in other words, it's an external soundcard.

No, a standalone amp will not work without a DAC, unless you have an analog signal from elsewhere feeding the amp. Soundcards actually have a built-in DAC *and* amp.

i thought 600 & 650 have the same cable now....

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDreamthinker 

i thought 600 & 650 have the same cable now....

No sir :)

The HD600 cable is quite cheap...comparable to something you'd find at your local ratshack. The HD650 cable is more substantial (re: thicker) and is terminated in a 1/4" plug rather than a 1/8" plug of the HD600 cable. I also found the HD650 cable to sound noticeably better, though not as good as expensive aftermarket offerings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose 

No sir :)

 

The HD600 cable is quite cheap...comparable to something you'd find at your local ratshack. The HD650 cable is more substantial (re: thicker) and is terminated in a 1/4" plug rather than a 1/8" plug of the HD600 cable. I also found the HD650 cable to sound noticeably better, though not as good as expensive aftermarket offerings.

Actually, it's more expensive than the HD 650 cable, and I believe that Sennheiser moved to the newer cable style for three reasons:

1. It is much cheaper to manufacture than the old cable.

2. It looks thicker - thus "better".

3. It has a better plug termination. (That original 1/8"-1/4" adapter has to be the worst one ever...)

The original is actually Kevlar sheathed (Try to find that at RatShack!); it's a very tough cable, and I'd be willing to bet that the conductor wires are pretty much the same thickness.  The difference in thickness has everything to do with the Kevlar sheathing on the original, which meant that less rubber could be used for an equally strong (and abrasion resistant) cable.  Rubber insulator has no impact on the sound...

I remember reading somewhere that the conductor material used in the HD 600 cable is supposedly "better" for some reason - impurities in the HD 650 cable or some other thing that doesn't really make any difference at all.

I have both cables, and I'll admit that I use and like the HD 650 cable since it is thicker and is more substantial feeling.  I do not think there is any audible difference whatsoever after spending an hour or so A/B'ing them, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

I'm using my laptop/ipod as my DAC until i do some research on which DAC to buy that will go well with my amp/headphone combo.

Speaking of headphones, i just received my HD600's this morning. I much prefer the sound compared to my K701. Deeper and more extended bass with less pronounced vocals but this seems to make listening to music for long periods much easier and enjoyable for me. Feels like the first time im listening to music and not headphones

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_djoel2000 

hi, quick question..

Is hd580 and hd600 really identical? If it is so, is there any information or evidence proofing this theory?

From what I know, they are indeed identical for the most part, save for grilles and finish. (Similar to HD545 vs. HD565 at the time, if anyone remembers.) Apparently the grilles make for a bit of a sonic difference, but that's about it. Don't ask me what they were smoking when they came up with that fugly marble finish though, so I'm not that unhappy about "only" having a '580. Not sure whether HD600 drivers still are exactly the same as they were back in '96, would be interesting to compare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose 

The HD600 cable is quite cheap...comparable to something you'd find at your local ratshack. The HD650 cable is more substantial (re: thicker) and is terminated in a 1/4" plug rather than a 1/8" plug of the HD600 cable. I also found the HD650 cable to sound noticeably better, though not as good as expensive aftermarket offerings.

I wouldn't call the HD600 cable cheap, even leaving aside the price difference (HD650 cable is quite a bit cheaper). It is very light, not microphonic and can take a bit of a beating (a problem finally solved when they came up with kevlar fiber reinforcement - early HD414s had light but very unreliable pure copper cables, so they had to go with rugged but kinda stiff and microphonic steel cables for quite a long time, still in use for HD25s). What more does one expect from a headphone cable? The HD650 cable may be more rugged and have tighter-fitting plugs, but it is a little heavier.

Incidentally, as long as the plugs make good contact, I'd expect zero audible difference between various cables (certainly as far as the Sennheiser ones are concerned). The way they are constructed, any resistance only ends up in series with the respective driver, increasing effective source impedance by one or two ohms, which pretty much does nothing at all with these 300 ohm drivers. If there are differences, blame it on the amp, which may not be playing nice with some capacitive loads.

Speaking of amps, the E7 with its 2.2 Vrms into 300 ohms (calculated from spec'd 16 mW) seems like a pretty decent option, at least for a portable amp. It could go a bit more than 10 dB louder than a Clip+, for a maximum of 109 dB SPL. That seems plenty sufficient for blowing your ears out on modern-day pop material (common crest factor <10 dB), and still makes for high volumes on dynamic classical recordings and such (assuming about 20 dB, we're still at 89 dB SPL, enough for a bit of hearing damage in the long run).

A typical desktop amp with +/-15 V supplies would be expected to drive them to about 122 dB SPL, ear-shattering volume for sure - actually they would go all distorted and even exceed their rated power handling at this point (max SPL is 112 dB @ about 3.2 Vrms, max power is 200 mW). Note that this would require typical CD player input levels plus a gain of about 5, or a gain of 15 in case of something like a Clip+.

Yea I guess ratshack was a bit harsh, but the HD650 cable is aesthetically and audibly better (and it's easily noticeable). I won't start a cable debate here though so I won't say more than that despite what cable-naysayers post. For anyone wanting further confirmation read here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/301979/review-apuresound-v3-silver-cable-with-copper-core-for-sennheiser-vs-stock-hd600-hd650-cables

BTW, you're wrong about the HD650 cable being cheaper. Links below with MSRP stated.

http://www.headphone.com/accessories/headphone-parts/sennheiser-hd-580600-replacement-cable.php

http://www.headphone.com/accessories/sennheiser-hd650-replacement-cable.php