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Sennheiser HD 600 Appreciation Thread - Page 245

post #3661 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Was following you there until the part of not being able to get high subbass or midbass w/o distortion. If you decrease the mids and treble so that the subbass and midbass are boosted (but not over 0db) and then compensate with volume you can get a ridiculous amount of distortion-free subbass and midbass. That is, I can't hear any distortion. Whether it measures as having more distortion or not I'm not sure but it sounds extremely clean and great to me.

 

If you meant you can't "boost" the subbass and midbass (i.e. above 0db) without distortion... well, yes. But that doesn't have much to do with the HD600.


I'm not talking about going above 0dB. I'm talking about the inherent distortion that the headphone system has when trying to reproduce low/mid bass at high SPL. It's not as bad as some other headphones to be sure, but it's definitely there. It sounds like the bass becoming more "rounded" rather than maintaining clarity. Try it yourself. Again, I'm talking about fairly high SPLs. Overall the HD600 has excellent and adequate bass extension so long as you don't push it too hard.

post #3662 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

I personally think you have to go higher than that. I had the chance to listen to the HD800 last month.

 

While it was indeed better than the HD600, it only improved on it in certain areas, and not by enough to make me want to drop that much money on it. I don't really feel like the HD800 is the true upgrade path from the HD600. 

 

Actually, nothing at the meet impressed me enough to want to ditch the HD600....except for the SR-009. I started a savings account for one instantly. Well, not really. But you get the idea.

 

Good points! No argument here.  Haven't heard the SR-009's, but would love to.  Then again, you're talking about an all new set up.  Just with amp and headphones, we're already at what, $9,000 to $12,000?  HD600's go with just about any equipment set up you have.  Really though, this is apples to oranges, though from what I've heard and read, the SR-009 versus any other headphone is apples to oranges!

post #3663 of 7290
May be you can try it with Clas with rx3b. To me this combo able to retain total control of bass definition without affecting other freq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OJNeg View Post


I'm not talking about going above 0dB. I'm talking about the inherent distortion that the headphone system has when trying to reproduce low/mid bass at high SPL. It's not as bad as some other headphones to be sure, but it's definitely there. It sounds like the bass becoming more "rounded" rather than maintaining clarity. Try it yourself. Again, I'm talking about fairly high SPLs. Overall the HD600 has excellent and adequate bass extension so long as you don't push it too hard.
post #3664 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by OJNeg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Was following you there until the part of not being able to get high subbass or midbass w/o distortion. If you decrease the mids and treble so that the subbass and midbass are boosted (but not over 0db) and then compensate with volume you can get a ridiculous amount of distortion-free subbass and midbass. That is, I can't hear any distortion. Whether it measures as having more distortion or not I'm not sure but it sounds extremely clean and great to me.

 

If you meant you can't "boost" the subbass and midbass (i.e. above 0db) without distortion... well, yes. But that doesn't have much to do with the HD600.


I'm not talking about going above 0dB. I'm talking about the inherent distortion that the headphone system has when trying to reproduce low/mid bass at high SPL. It's not as bad as some other headphones to be sure, but it's definitely there. It sounds like the bass becoming more "rounded" rather than maintaining clarity. Try it yourself. Again, I'm talking about fairly high SPLs. Overall the HD600 has excellent and adequate bass extension so long as you don't push it too hard.

 

I've never noticed any distortion in the bass or sub-bass, or any "rounding" of the bass or sub-bass, and that's regardless of how much I'm boosting it with EQ or how much volume I'm using. I'm powering the 600s with the Lake People G109 so I've got tons of power and volume to play with, could that be why? Or am I just not noticing it? How noticeable is it? I usually notice any small bit of distortion or imperfection in my music since I'm super familiar with it.

post #3665 of 7290

Did short comparisons of the HD 600

 

 

 

 

 

The Unipolar were superior technically. The HD 530 were weaker technically. The DT 990 were about equal, and the Yamahas slightly better. Even though I didn't prefer the HD 600 over these other phones personally, in many cases it would've been a question of preference.

 

The HD 600 do a reasonable job of bringing in neutrality without the need to mod, and I prefer them over the K 701.

post #3666 of 7290

I'm running an AMB CKK so I have zero problems with headroom myself. Actually, the fact that I can push the HD600 real hard with this amp is the only reason I can detect it.

 

I wouldn't call it subtle; it's definitely there if you know what to listen for. Obviously, if you don't have a reference you're going to find it hard to detect. Keep in mind that it's not "subwoofer falling apart" or "port tube shuffling" distortion. It's harmonic distortion. It's tough to detect harmonic distortion in the bass with music because there's usually plenty of 2nd order and 3rd order components already in the music. So take that as you will.

 

Also, the fact that the HD600 rolls off on the very bottom makes the effect a bit more apparent. The fundamental can be at an equal level with the harmonic (or near enough that it sounds like extra harmonic).

post #3667 of 7290

Great write-ups biggrin.gif for each comparison!  

 

You don't mention what you used for amplification for the HD600 or your other headphones, I was wondering what you used?  The only reason why I ask is that the HD600's performance can vary greatly depending on the type of amp it is hooked up to.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

Did short comparisons of the HD 600

 

 

post #3668 of 7290
Hey I was wondering about two things:

1. Are the HE 400s complimentary to these headphones? As in, if I got those would I just be doubling up on two very similar phones? I assume given the talk about how 'energetic' the hifimans are and the bass presence they would be more suitable for metal, upbeat pop/rock/electronic music?

2. What's the weakest component in my setup: HRT music streamer II (DAC) or Asgard 1 (Amp).
post #3669 of 7290

Running my cans from a Xonar Essence STX soundcard, thinking about getting a dedicated dac/amp combo like the E17 and E09k. Would this be worth it at all? What improvements would it make to the sound quality?

post #3670 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by squib323 View Post

Hey I was wondering about two things:

1. Are the HE 400s complimentary to these headphones? As in, if I got those would I just be doubling up on two very similar phones? I assume given the talk about how 'energetic' the hifimans are and the bass presence they would be more suitable for metal, upbeat pop/rock/electronic music?

2. What's the weakest component in my setup: HRT music streamer II (DAC) or Asgard 1 (Amp).

Hmm. I preferred the HD600's to the HE's personally. I would say that the bass is tighter on the Hifiman's but doesn't have significantly more impact. If you are planning on listening to more electronic, bass heavy stuff or even metal I would say go for it. As the Senn's are pretty natural sounding cans and don't really swing any which way I guess most cans that are either brighter or darker could be considered complimentary. 

post #3671 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by mink42 View Post

Running my cans from a Xonar Essence STX soundcard, thinking about getting a dedicated dac/amp combo like the E17 and E09k. Would this be worth it at all? What improvements would it make to the sound quality?

The STX is a very high quality card. While I have no experience with the E17 and E09, based on the specification I doubt you will get any improvement.

If you do want a noticeable improvement, I would say keep the STX and use it as a DAC to feed an amplifier with a nice big transformer that offers considerably more power reserves than the onboard amp or the E09 - something like a Lake People G103 or similar.
post #3672 of 7290

AW: Sennheiser HD 600 Appreciation Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mink42 View Post

Running my cans from a Xonar Essence STX soundcard, thinking about getting a dedicated dac/amp combo like the E17 and E09k. Would this be worth it at all? What improvements would it make to the sound quality?


Mhm I think the essence is already a decent soundcard, so I would look into an amp, I personally prefer tube amps for the HD 600....
But what about a combo like the asus xonar essence one?
It is not cheap, but you can tune the sound to your likings with the opamps included and the dac is really good!
A really great combo for the HD 600!
But beware, older models (like mine) have big steps on the headphone pot, but they solved it in newer revisions.

What is your budget by the way?

Hope I could help! :-)

if you can read this I typed on my NeXus 4
post #3673 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post
 something like a Lake People G103 or similar.

Oh man I've been reading through the G103/G109 appreciation thread and it looks amazing, +1 for getting a Lake People amp as soon as I can have $450 of disposable income I'm getting a G109

post #3674 of 7290

I have a question about headphone amplifiers for my HD 600s. I have a pretty powerful stereo receiver with a headphone socket. I have read that headphones between 32 and 600 ohms are recommended, but I still don't know if it's good to use with the HD 600s because it is not dedicated headphone amplifier but I don't want to spend my money on one if it will not be an improvement. My relatively new HD 600s have yet to really wow me. They are my first Hi-Fi headphones and they sound a little disappointing. The problem is I don't know how how good they should be sounding. I don't have any money to spend right now because I'm in High School so I'm kinda stuck with what I have for now. I don't even know if I can take them to college because they won't block out noise and my roommate probably won't like my all the sound-leakage. I guess I'm in a little situation so a some knowledge from more experienced HD 600 owners and audiophiles would be really helpful! Also, I don't know how much difference a DAC will make. I just want a good sounding rig without spending too much more money than I already have. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

post #3675 of 7290
Quote:
Originally Posted by twbostick View Post

I have a question about headphone amplifiers for my HD 600s. I have a pretty powerful stereo receiver with a headphone socket. I have read that headphones between 32 and 600 ohms are recommended, but I still don't know if it's good to use with the HD 600s because it is not dedicated headphone amplifier but I don't want to spend my money on one if it will not be an improvement. My relatively new HD 600s have yet to really wow me. They are my first Hi-Fi headphones and they sound a little disappointing. The problem is I don't know how how good they should be sounding. I don't have any money to spend right now because I'm in High School so I'm kinda stuck with what I have for now.

 

It's hard to tell how much better a dedicated amp will be because we have no idea how "horrible" that receiver is. Even if you tell us what specific model it is, not everyone has had the chance to listen to that, and there actually are receivers that can drive the HD600s well enough - meaning a headphone amp will be an audible improvement to most but still it won't be absolutely different. Besides, there are other reasons why people get dedicated headphone amps - they either don't have existing speaker amps with (good) headphone outputs, or wherever they plan to use the headphones - nowadays usually on a desk with a computer as a source - space is a premium, and generally even a true Class A topology headphone amp will be much smaller than a Class A/B amplifier (and fullrange Class T or D speaker amps typically don't have headphone outputs running off the speaker outputs, and many of them have measurable distortion at high impedance loads).

 

In any case, you might want to take a look at Schiit's return policy - AFAIK you'll only spend on return shipping if you return the amp on time (within 30 Days I think). Magni goes for $99 and the Asgard for $249.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by twbostick View Post

I don't even know if I can take them to college because they won't block out noise and my roommate probably won't like my all the sound-leakage. I guess I'm in a little situation so a some knowledge from more experienced HD 600 owners and audiophiles would be really helpful!

 

They leak a lot of sound, yes, but it's more a question of how loud you can listen. The only time I was listening too loud on them was when I just got my Meier Cantate, I was basing my standards on what too loud is on audible distortion. The amp's output was clean and powerful enough (and at the time I was on vacation with my family in their California home ) that my brother walked past and knocked on the window because he can hear my headphones from outside. Now that I know how loud it really is I don't use audible distortion (whether it's the sound itself or my ears giving up) to judge how loud I need them to be, and I totally can't hear my headphones when I put them on the desk and move towards the door about 1meter away; push the volume control all the way to max output, and I can hear the headphones from the hallway.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by twbostick View Post

Also, I don't know how much difference a DAC will make. I just want a good sounding rig without spending too much more money than I already have. Any help would be greatly appreciated!



Many will say it has the least effect on the overall sound and that's for the most part true, given the best source will be handicapped by an amp that alters the sound or distorts because its output is anemic for whatever headphone is plugged into them. However, that does not mean that you won't appreciate the benefit from replacing a portable player that, for example, has no true line out with a DAC (or CDP) that uses a good circuit, power supply and outputs a CD standard 2v; but neither would that mean that DACs are meant to sound profoundly different whether at the same or varying price ranges, provided they're all good designs. In short, get a good one known for a neutral response and works with whatever source you're using (ie has the right inputs for the source's outputs) and be done with it. What source are you using with the receiver and headphones now?

Also, the great thing about starting off with the HD600 is that it actually isn't too picky with amps - throw an amp with a decent design with enough voltage and current (doesn't necessarily mean it must be a dedicated voltage-driven amp that can't work as well with low impedance but inefficient, current-hungry headphones) and you're good. Get this and the DAC together and you just sit back and enjoy the music, assuming you like the HD600's sound, and all you'll need to worry about is getting new earpads or replacing the cable if they break.

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