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Sennheiser HD 600 Appreciation Thread - Page 158

post #2356 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

My headphones sound better after I drink a glass of wine and when I wear orange. wink.gif

 

And how come aftermarket "upgrades" always "improve" the sound?

 

    my opinion..it is the electricity that it canducts becomes less distorted due to EMI/RFI factor which can be generated within your system components

post #2357 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

It's also interesting how  a headphone can often sound much worse due to stress, allergies, congestion, ear wax and just being tired.

 

I actually once even had my amp sounding a little worse than it should be by having it plugged into a huge surge protector with too much noise filtering. Can't explain that one. Some guy had said it was "starving" the amp of power and I thought that was good for a laugh. Maybe he's not too far off. The differences were only detectable with ONE headphone. Not even kidding. Yet the noise filter was claimed to improve the sound. Maybe it's just defective.

 

I remember the first day of using the ODAC was absolutely awful. I never would have though that my desktop USB ports were so crappy that it made my ODAC sound bad!

 

One thing I've learned now is that I HATE doing A/B comparisons. If I can listen to a headphone a month without any complaint, then I know I have a keeper. I really need to avoid over-analyzing things and just listen to my dang music.

 

Now I'm not yet convinced on USB cables other than length. I'll stick to high quality Monprice USB and HDMI cables. I do prefer those without ferrite cores, but I'll sound like a fool if I tell you why! Now THAT has to be my brain playing tricks on me. Thankfully you won't see me doing USB cable "sound" reviews..ugh. Yep I know about all that 1's and 0's stuff. normal_smile%20.gif

   

   i agree with the fact that dont over anlyzing your equipment.

   as long as you can listen to it for a month without complaining & it put your emotions at ease or feel like dancing ..dont try to change anything..

   i was torn inside after i upgrade USB cable..the previous usb cable i use allows me to listen to 5 channel surround sound with little bit less

   accurateness in music..the new one is more accurate but that the surround sound is adversely affect

post #2358 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Or if you believe in scientific measurements. ;)

  i believe the after market cables company found it to scientifically explain why their cable is a winner.

  However, they decided not to really publish it because of protecting their research

post #2359 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Yeah I've never understood the USB cable arguments. Its a digital transfer. Unless the 1's and 0's going into the cable are different from those coming out then, technically, there can be no difference. But whatever. I'm not interested in getting into arguments with the USB cable people haha. :)

 

   Technically speaking..opticle cable way outperform  usb cable in terms of delivering details  , even if  the optical ones cost much cheaper

   problem with opticle cable is that it  sound too razor-like sharp  .. I dont know why?

post #2360 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmstrmbn View Post

To the op, the 600s are quite versatile and will perform well in any genre you can throw at it.  They excel with classical, jazz and acoustic recordings and do well with most other genres but not on the same levels as they handle classical,etc.  I ended up going with the 600s as my main phone for this reason, that and I was scared of the bass hump on the 650s ( I come from a mid-fi speaker set up where the bass smears EVERYTHING)  I did not want to repeat that with my headphones, best choice i've made in audio.

   

     good findings..

post #2361 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee inthe Attic View Post


While I'm skeptical of a noticeable improvement that aftermarket cables might offer... I also wonder how much of an improvement different amps offer. I'm running my HD 600s off of a Fiio E9 (and E10 DAC), and am considering getting an O2 (and ODAC). Would this upgrade be in the 5% improvement category (which my ears would likely not notice), or are we talking night and day improvements here?

  

    IMO audition it first..

    if you really want a night & day difference.. then you need to go for higher model such as benchmark dac 1 with the headphone amp

post #2362 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJS View Post

@tdockweiler  - I went through this exercise a while ago when I was a cable skeptic ....  the greater the capacitance between the wires, the more the system will act like a low pass filter .... that is the "capacitors" will shunt the higher frequencies away from the headphone, making it appear less bright  (less on the highs, more on the lows).

 

The only problem is, when I was approaching this academically, plugging in real-world values doesn't yield appreciable results until up around 100 KHz, well beyond human hearing.  So, I didn't buy into it.  Until I heard it for myself with a high end setup in a controlled environment.  So, I'm just going to assume my theoretical analysis was correct but the numbers I plugged in weren't quite right.

 

Unless it's skin effect.  At higher frequencies, the current travels through a decreasing effective diameter of wire (around the skin), increasing the effective impedance of the cable at those higher frequencies.  Except theoretically, these skin effects are supposed to be negligible until much higher frequencies.

 

(shrugs shoulders)

 

 

 

     high end set up in a control environment...

     no wonder you can hear the difference in cable

post #2363 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamalz View Post

  I have the same opinion previously.

  but now ..i am a strong believer..

  you need to have a good set up rig  to hear difference between stock & after market cable.for hd 600.

  also try to add a good power line conditioner to your head fi rig ..to me shunyata hydra 6 is awesome

  even if you already had one..and  if you still cannot hear the difference, then it would be your capability in hearing..

  You can always went to a doctor to check the frequncy range that your hearing able to identified

  Fortunately..you no need to spend so much money to upgrades

 

 if you still cannot hear the difference, then it would be your capability in hearing..

  You can always went to a doctor to check the frequncy range that your hearing able to identified

If your hearing is so refined, then I guess you could pick out the aftermarket cable in a controlled test? rolleyes.gif This has been debated forever, but there's no science behind your claim AFAIK... only a trick of the mind/emotions.  But whatever floats your boat

post #2364 of 7273

For me.... Cables always comes last and not a mandatory. I'll better off with upgrading my cans, DACs or Amps

post #2365 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by punks15 View Post

For me.... Cables always comes last and not a mandatory. I'll better off with upgrading my cans, DACs or Amps

 

I think this is ideal advice for newcomers wondering about the potential improvements of cable upgrades.

post #2366 of 7273

IMO you'll always hear a bigger changes or perhaps improvement by changing your DACs or Amps. Cables, yes they make improvements but definitely less than DACs or Amps.

post #2367 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamalz View Post

  i believe the after market cables company found it to scientifically explain why their cable is a winner.

  However, they decided not to really publish it because of protecting their research

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. To my knowledge there has never been a single scientific measurement released to back up cable manufacturer's claims of improved sound quality and releasing said measurements would in no way harm their 'research' or reveal any kind of trade secrets.

post #2368 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. To my knowledge there has never been a single scientific measurement released to back up cable manufacturer's claims of improved sound quality and releasing said measurements would in no way harm their 'research' or reveal any kind of trade secrets.

 

You're right.

 

He is the second user I've blocked on this thread.angry_face.gif

post #2369 of 7273
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamalz View Post

  i believe the after market cables company found it to scientifically explain why their cable is a winner.

  However, they decided not to really publish it because of protecting their research

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. To my knowledge there has never been a single scientific measurement released to back up cable manufacturer's claims of improved sound quality and releasing said measurements would in no way harm their 'research' or reveal any kind of trade secrets.

 

Ridiculous indeed.... likely just a troll


Edited by lejaz - 12/14/12 at 6:25pm
post #2370 of 7273

I spent an hour reading up on the differences of low/high capacitance wire. Since I'm a technical moron I won't try to explain it.

After about 2 years of making my own (crappy) cables I do think the only differences are due to the capacitance and a combination of the amp/dac and many other things.

They say that this will have no effect on how a headphone cables sounds because headphone cables are so short. Has this ever been proven?

 

My opinion is that very low capacitance wire is awful on very bright (and/or thin) sounding headphones. It makes them even MORE analytical or thin sounding. Don't know why. Try putting silver wire, silver plated copper or anything with a low capacitance on the K702 and it will sound awful. Why don't people use silver on the K702 and only with the really dark headphones? I'll let you guess! Interesting when people say silver removes their "veil". I used ALO SXC on my Q701 for a few months, but it seems to suck the life out of it despite sounding clearer and more detailed. Just not as musical to my ears. I imagine it's ultra low capacitance wire like Cat6.

 

Then the high capacitance wire seems to make my headphones sound more muffled or fool me into thinking they have less treble. I use Canare sometimes with my Q701, but it sounds less clear.

 

So basically for me, low cap. means it generally might sound thinner/bright (not dramatically different) and high is warmer/fuller sounding. Often a lot more muffled. Overall, small differences and maybe subtle to some.

 

My guess if you had two different wire brands with the same capacitance and shielding they might sound identical on the same equipment.

 

I did some research and it appears that the HD-650 cable is much higher capacitance then I'd imagine. It's probably up there with Canare. I used my DHC cable with my HD-650 and it lost some of that warmth that I like. You can switch to even the HD-600 cable and it's slightly less warm. I guess not everyone could tell. I bet it's a different type of wire and Sennheiser knews exactly what they want with the HD-650 cable.  The stock HD-650 makes everything nice and full sounding.

 

So..I prefer the HD-650 stock cable. Replacing it with a lower capacitance wire makes it sounds like it's clearer, has more detail and a larger soundstage, but I think the brain is being fooled somehow. I reminds me how the Q701 sounds like it has a smaller soundstage due to being much warmer than the K702. That's probably not the only reason.

 

Another interesting thing i've found is that Cardas claims the capacitance of their wire is around 45pF/foot. Which they say is similar to anything at any department store.

 

It's interesting that with all the forum reading i've been doing, some people say to use the lowest capacitance wire you can find. I think this is a bad idea. Somewhere in the middle seems best. If you like a really warm sounding headphone, silver, CAT6 or SXC wouldn't be a VERY bad idea.

 

What I've love to do is find out for sure what the capacitance of the HD-650/600 cable is and then find one that's as close to that as possible. HD-650 in another thread is 290pF for 1.15 meters.

 

So I guess I think to my ears these things are the main differences. I need to do more testing. It'd be interesting to find a wire that's similar somewhere in between what's considered high or low capacitance. I think maybe I should make an HD-600/650 cable using department store RCA, GE, Radioshack or even Monprice speaker wire. Should be interesting.  I think maybe Cardas is right, that they're somewhere around in the middle.

 

Here's some interesting links i've found:

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=8b20b4558c90afcfd476abfa1625108f&t=865772

http://www.head-fi.org/t/79347/sennheiser-hd650-cable-capacitance

 

So, I believe in cables making minor differences, but sometimes it can make things worse. I do think that you could find a 50 cents/foot wire that sounds as good as the fancy pants expensive stuff. Maybe not, but I can try. Of course that special stuff is 99.999999999% pure or whatever else.

 

BTW I do like high quality wire that's slightly more expensive because it has better shielding and you can get it already sleeved in the Starquad variety. Saves a ton of times when making headphone cables.

 

Funnily enough i'm using a $10 GE Signature Pro interconnect. Sounds great and it's covered in a clear plastic cover and you can see the shielding inside normal_smile%20.gif

 

Oh yeah.. the HD-650 cable may technically not be as high quality as an expensive aftermarket cable, but it sounds pretty good. The trick for me would be to retain 100% of it's warmth and improve on what's already there without changing much. My guess is Mogami is very close to the stock HD-650 cable.

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