Sennheiser HD 600 Appreciation Thread - Page 142

I've just always been so happy with solid state amps w/ the HD600/HD650. Sure, I'd be happy to audition a tube amp. But at least from the caricatures of tube amps, I don't see that the HD600 needs what they offer. I think they're plenty warm and liquidy already! 

Has anyone heard the 600 with a Decware CSP2+?

I believe FrankI heard the 650 with his CSP2...

-Daniel

Originally Posted by imackler 

I've just always been so happy with solid state amps w/ the HD600/HD650. Sure, I'd be happy to audition a tube amp. But at least from the caricatures of tube amps, I don't see that the HD600 needs what they offer. I think they're plenty warm and liquidy already! 

I love how the HD600 sounds with SS amps too... the HD600 has a slightly thin, but dynamic note presentation.. what a good tube amp does is add some heft & dimension to those notes that makes the sound undeniably exquisite.  There's a really nice synergy between tubes (regardless of coloration) & the HD600's tuning which brings about a very inviting, smooth sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlySweep 

I love how the HD600 sounds with SS amps too... the HD600 has a slightly thin, but dynamic note presentation.. what a good tube amp does is add some heft & dimension to those notes that makes the sound undeniably exquisite.  There's a really nice synergy between tubes (regardless of coloration) & the HD600's tuning which brings about a very inviting, smooth sound.

I wish you were closer to Spokane. That sounds good! I'd like to hear that! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlySweep 

I love how the HD600 sounds with SS amps too... the HD600 has a slightly thin, but dynamic note presentation.. what a good tube amp does is add some heft & dimension to those notes that makes the sound undeniably exquisite.  There's a really nice synergy between tubes (regardless of coloration) & the HD600's tuning which brings about a very inviting, smooth sound.

I can't believe someone could ever call the HD-600 slightly thin. I mean this is just baffling for me. If the HD-600 is thin, what is your KRK like? Even with the E9 and ODAC it's not like this for me. I guess i'm too used to the HD-598 and Q701 type sound. I do see your point about a tube amp giving them a fuller sound. I did notice yesterday that my HD-580 is a bit fuller sounding, yet even more clear. Those two usually don't seem to go together!

We all hear things differently and I spent an hour reading an old HD-650 vs HD-600 thread last night and heard some say the same as you. One person even claimed the HD-650 had more forward upper mids than the HD-600. I wonder if this is really true? Another person said it had buried upper mids.

I even heard someone say the HD-650 had harsh treble! NOW I really need to try the HD-650 again!

BTW the only time I could get the HD-600 to sound slightly thin is with a silver plated copper cable perhaps. I don't even know if that combined with a O2+ODAC could do that for me

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdockweiler 

 

I can't believe someone could ever call the HD-600 slightly thin. I mean this is just baffling for me. If the HD-600 is thin, what is your KRK like? Even with the E9 and ODAC it's not like this for me. I guess i'm too used to the HD-598 and Q701 type sound. I do see your point about a tube amp giving them a fuller sound. I did notice yesterday that my HD-580 is a bit fuller sounding, yet even more clear. Those two usually don't seem to go together!

 

We all hear things differently and I spent an hour reading an old HD-650 vs HD-600 thread last night and heard some say the same as you. One person even claimed the HD-650 had more forward upper mids than the HD-600. I wonder if this is really true? Another person said it had buried upper mids.

 

I even heard someone say the HD-650 had harsh treble! NOW I really need to try the HD-650 again!

 

BTW the only time I could get the HD-600 to sound slightly thin is with a silver plated copper cable perhaps. I don't even know if that combined with a O2+ODAC could do that for me

Not that I would complain but I've heard them sound rather thin as well and I almost exclusively use decent amplification.  I think it has more to do with the recording than the headphones.

People say stuff all the time. Stuff can sound harsh on the hd 650 as much as on any phone. Just depends on the music.

Tubes giving a fuller sound is also nonsensical. Tubes can and will sound as full as solid state - it just depends on what amp you're talking about in combination with what amp.

Forward mids, buried mids... Dunno what that means. On some song mids come out differently than on others. Sounds like whymsical findings to me.

Anyway people always say stuff, doesn't mean it has any meaning.
 

What would you do if you managed to somehow get an hd800 with an awesome amp? Lament the observation that you prefer the bass on your hd650's? :P

what's thin what's harsh what's full etc etc etc.

Gotta love the power of placebo! 

Amps, cables, dac's etc aren't going to dynamically alter the sound that much for casual listening (100% of my listening these days).  I could care less about being critical I'm in the hobby to enjoy what I'm listening to.

I do enjoy the HD580 out of my tube amp (DV336) more than the SS amp stage of the NFB5.2 :D

In my case, mids were more prominent, soundstage is a little better, and the sound is very dynamic <- yes from a HD580!

It gives the HD580 a very special emotional touch. The sound becomes a bit darker but very liquid and smooth. Overall a small but identify-able change, much welcomed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrAdrian 

I do enjoy the HD580 out of my tube amp (DV336) more than the SS amp stage of the NFB5.2 :D

 

In my case, mids were more prominent, soundstage is a little better, and the sound is very dynamic <- yes from a HD580!

 

It gives the HD580 a very special emotional touch. The sound becomes a bit darker but very liquid and smooth. Overall a small but identify-able change, much welcomed!

The Darkvoice 336se sounds wonderful with the HD600/650. A truly wonderful listening experience for me when I got the opportunity to try the two!

Originally Posted by tdockweiler 
I can't believe someone could ever call the HD-600 slightly thin. I mean this is just baffling for me. If the HD-600 is thin, what is your KRK like? Even with the E9 and ODAC it's not like this for me. I guess i'm too used to the HD-598 and Q701 type sound. I do see your point about a tube amp giving them a fuller sound. I did notice yesterday that my HD-580 is a bit fuller sounding, yet even more clear. Those two usually don't seem to go together!

 

We all hear things differently and I spent an hour reading an old HD-650 vs HD-600 thread last night and heard some say the same as you. One person even claimed the HD-650 had more forward upper mids than the HD-600. I wonder if this is really true? Another person said it had buried upper mids.

 

I even heard someone say the HD-650 had harsh treble! NOW I really need to try the HD-650 again!

 

BTW the only time I could get the HD-600 to sound slightly thin is with a silver plated copper cable perhaps. I don't even know if that combined with a O2+ODAC could do that for me

Yes.. the HD600's note weight is on the thin side, but notes possess excellent dynamics... like I said.  Combine that with the gently boosted midbass (which brings about some warmth)  and it's what makes the HD600's sound so special.  Smooth, airy, open, and dynamic.

As for being 'baffled' by that characterization.. calling the HD600's note weight as lean isn't some oddball revelation or wild accusation.. there's a pretty well established consensus around that impression... from lay listeners & experienced audiophiles alike.  It's also part of why it sounds so good with tubes that add some 'weight to the sound. midrange and treble.

The KNS8400 also has a note presentation leaning to the thin side.. but it, too, has excellent dynamics.  That doesn't mean the KNS8400 & HD600 sound the same.. the KRK isn't as smooth & warm as the HD600.. so that's where their sonic signatures began to depart.. but it's no coincidence I own (and love) both phones.

I haven't spent enough time with the HD650 (or been able to compare it to the HD600) to comment on how it's presentation & nuances stack up to the HD650.  Most all the reviews I've read from trusted members say the HD650 is darker & warmer than the 650 (this is what most people who have gone from the 650 to the 600 say, too).  Perhaps the graphs at HeadRoom will provide some general guidance.

Originally Posted by Nirvana Woman 

 

Tubes giving a fuller sound is also nonsensical. Tubes can and will sound as full as solid state - it just depends on what amp you're talking about in combination with what amp.

No.. it isn't nonsensical.  Tubes can add body & color the sound with their 'pleasant distortion.'  That being said.. not all tubes sound the same or impart the same signature.  I think it's already well known by most people in this hobby that tubes can sound like neutral 'solid state' amps with littile coloration.. and solid states can have a warm, colored tone, as well.

Originally Posted by Nirvana Woman 

 

Forward mids, buried mids... Dunno what that means. On some song mids come out differently than on others. Sounds like whymsical findings to me.

This should help.  Yes, the mastering/mixing quality of a track will, to a certain degree, determine how certain parts of the frequency range are presented.  That being said, most all phones impart their own character on how the position those same frequencies are presented.  For example, low-mid priced Grados have a forward, aggressive midrange.. there's nothing 'whimsical' to that.  It's intended and is reflected in both subjective & objective observations.

Originally Posted by Nirvana Woman 

 

Anyway people always say stuff, doesn't mean it has any meaning.

 Thanks for that pearl of wisdom.. Noted.

 

Originally Posted by N0sferatu 

what's thin what's harsh what's full etc etc etc.

 

Gotta love the power of placebo! 

 

Amps, cables, dac's etc aren't going to dynamically alter the sound that much for casual listening (100% of my listening these days).  I could care less about being critical I'm in the hobby to enjoy what I'm listening to.

Describing a phone's note presentation as thin.. or it possessing a harsh treble.. is 'placebo'?   Goodness.. we're all clearly wasting our time.

Originally Posted by N0sferatu 

 

Amps, cables, dac's etc aren't going to dynamically alter the sound that much for casual listening (100% of my listening these days).  I could care less about being critical I'm in the hobby to enjoy what I'm listening to.

I agree about cables, they're not going to 'dynamically alter' sound for casual listening.  As far amps & dacs?  It depends on the phones... unless of course, sensitivity measurements and power requirements are placebo, too.  It doesn't take 'golden ears' to hear the difference between how an HE-6 sounds from an iPhone vs a speaker amp.

It's just baffling to me because your the first person i've heard from who's ever said this about the HD-600. I seriously don't believe this is the general consensus. I've heard the K702 and DT-880 be called thin, but the HD-600 I guess if everyone here agrees, then you're right. I just haven't heard this before. It's kind of a shock! Doesn't matter that much to me. I now hate to see what you'd think of the HD-598!

Getting a tube amp just to warm up the sound and add weight to the HD-600 seems kind of silly. I could understand the K702. Of course I'm sure those aren't the only benefits. Actually this isn't so silly since i'd like to buy a hybrid tube amp for my $50 DJ100

I guess i'm abnormal because (IMO) adding any more thickness to the mids of the HD-600 would make them a muffled and congested mess. Hmm, maybe not. Probably depends on the amp.

BTW does anyone know if the HE-400 is warmer than the HD-600? I don't even know if they have any similarities. If it's as warm as the HD-650 I probably won't like it.

NOTE: This isn't a big deal to me. Not trying to argue, It's just that hearing the HD-600 being called thin weirded me out. Never heard that. Maybe I need to hang around in this thread more.

Thinnest sounding headphone I ever heard was the Koss A/250. I think that's the one rare headphone that almost would require a tube amp for me to like!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlySweep 

 

Yes.. the HD600's note weight is on the thin side, but notes possess excellent dynamics... like I said.  Combine that with the gently boosted midbass (which brings about some warmth)  and it's what makes the HD600's sound so special.  Smooth, airy, open, and dynamic.

 

As for being 'baffled' by that characterization.. calling the HD600's note weight as lean isn't some oddball revelation or wild accusation.. there's a pretty well established consensus around that impression... from lay listeners & experienced audiophiles alike.  It's also part of why it sounds so good with tubes that add some 'weight to the sound. midrange and treble.

I think the HE-400 is definitely warmer than the HD600 and warmer still than the HD650.  Others will agree and disagree.  People call it brighter compared to those two as well, it all depends on how you interpret its treble. 

You like forward/emphasized upper mids though, and the HE-400 is the exact opposite.