AKG K701/K702 vs. AKG Q701? - Page 9

I'm gonna see if I can get my hands on the K702 Cardan piece and see what it does. 

'cos I have no idea what it does.

But it must do smething to the sound.

Anyone?

Strange...........the foam doesn't show up in the service manuals????

The cardan piece helps hold the driver in place and looks like it might include the solder pins. I do not think it does anything to the sound. 

Why is the K702 different than the Q701 Cardan assembly?

If it's in the sound chamber.....? I wonder if it would alter the sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris J 

Weird,  somewhere on the Q701 thread someone posted a link to the service manuals for K702 and Q701.

The only difference between the two parts lists was something called a Cardan piece.    

When I get some time I'll see if I can link to that link for you.

 

But I agree, damping sure will change the sound!

Has anyone tried damping the k70X with some tape over the back where the extra foam piece of the 'Q' resides? I tried it with transpore tape and didn't hear anything different. Then I covered it with a strip of electrical tape over the transpore, and the treble spike seems to have died down a bit. Don't know if it's placebo effect or not yet. Curious if anyone else wants to try this simple mod with their 'k' version and see if they hear any difference with the mod. I'm pretty clueless about these things, but this should have a damping effect, or am I mistaken?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz 

Has anyone tried damping the k70X with some tape over the back where the extra foam piece of the 'Q' resides? I tried it with transpore tape and didn't hear anything different. Then I covered it with a strip of electrical tape over the transpore, and the treble spike seems to have died down a bit. Don't know if it's placebo effect or not yet. Curious if anyone else wants to try this simple mod with their 'k' version and see if they hear any difference with the mod. I'm pretty clueless about these things, but this should have a damping effect, or am I mistaken?

 

The electrical tape will not bring the same effect as the Q foam, maybe you can get a close effect to the Q foam with tin felt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsx280ps 

I think I discovered something that might change the sound on the Q701, right behind the cap with the Q logo on it, there are two foam pads... Which I tried to find pics on google and videos on youtube, these do not appear to be present on the K701s.... So more damping could contribute to the sound differences?

 

The pic shows the two different sides of the foam pads:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by roBernd 

K701 K702 and Q701 are the same phones!

 

but there is one huge difference which changes the sound slightly!

Under the Back-Grill (The one with the Q on it) is a piece of foam only found on the Q701... which basically makes them "semi-open" (hush, don't spread the word :P )

 

If you want to upgrade from K70X to Q701, just get this part, this or some similar foam, and insert it. DONE!

Triva to close this post. ->Same part can be found on the K601.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this conversion doesn't work.  I just tested it, and you can consider this myth BUSTED! 

I have them both here removed the covers on both, swapped them, and put the foam inserts inside the K702.  The Q701 still has more bass.  There's not much difference in the sound to be honest.  They both sound about the same.

Something else is changing the sound.  I have no idea what...  Someone kidnap Quincy Jones and interrogate him!!

Have you looked at the Cardan piece(s)?

I really don't know want they do but they are different.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/411268/the-akg-k701-friend-or-foe-mods-that-may-help-others

Here's a pretty simple mod that will tame the brightness of the k70X and should make it similar to the 'Q'. Also, switching to 601 pads is supposed to reduce the upper mids/treble peak. Worth experimenting with if anyone's thinking of  selling their 'K' and buying the 'Q'

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicolom 

 

Something else is changing the sound.  

 

 

Or it's not really any different at all. Have you blind tested them? 

Valid question liamstrain. I imagine not too many people have both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liamstrain 

 

Or it's not really any different at all. Have you blind tested them? 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by liamstrain 

 

Or it's not really any different at all. Have you blind tested them? 

 

Why blind test something that's so stupid obvious to tell apart when you have both? The differences are just not so subtle to even require something like this.

I mean it's not like trying to listen to the difference between cables or pads where it's less obvious if not impossible to hear any differences.

I actually tried the K601 pads on the K701, but it actually made them much worse and fatiguing. At least to my ears, but some may like it.

Some K501 pads would be interesting to try, but it would really make the bass suffer and the K702/Q701 doesn't need that.

Maybe someone can email AKG and ask what causes the different sound. They probably won't tell us.

Here's another thing to check. Take off the pads (they twist off) and compare the foam pieces in front of the driver. Maybe the Q701 foam is thicker? I think someone earlier said it was a bit. That alone could alter the sound in some way. I'm going to cry if the only thing that alters the sound of the Q701 is some silly foam Try the Q701 foam BEHIND the pads on the K702.

Maybe we will never know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdockweiler 

Why blind test something that's so stupid obvious to tell apart when you have both? The differences are just not so subtle to even require something like this.

 

Because, frankly, there are MANY of us who have listened to both headphones and not found appreciable differences between them. Some of us (Tyl for instance) have measured them, and not found appreciable differences between them. And because our brains lie to us. It happens all the time. Nothing wrong with it, but there are limits to what we hear and why.  And yet some people (you) keep saying as fact that these are very different sounding headphones and recommending one over another, and that is anything but based in fact.  

Without measurements or ABX double blind testing - we are left with opinion (and those differ widely). So I am asking if this poster conducted a blind test, before making his statements. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by liamstrain 

Because, frankly, there are MANY of us who have listened to both headphones and not found appreciable differences between them. Some of us (Tyl for instance) have measured them, and not found appreciable differences between them. And because our brains lie to us. It happens all the time. Nothing wrong with it, but there are limits to what we hear and why.  And yet some people (you) keep saying as fact that these are very different sounding headphones and recommending one over another, and that is anything but based in fact.  

 

Without measurements or ABX double blind testing - we are left with opinion (and those differ widely). So I am asking if this poster conducted a blind test, before making his statements. 

It's not a surprise to me that some can't tell the difference between the two. Often for some headphones it can take a good week to pick apart the differences. Luckily for me it was much easier. I actually had a harder time figuring out the differences between my KRK KNS-6400 and 8400!

Listening to the Q701 was all the proof I needed. The K702's treble really bothers my ears and the q701 does not. Good enough for me, but that was the most minor difference. The fact that I can go a whole 3 months without any complaints about the Q701 is pretty impressive. I could never do that with the K702! K702 was only average for female vocals and the Q701 is quite good for them. I think if it wasn't, I probably would have sold them I think. It even holds up well to the K601 for vocals!

Since day one I always suggested to people that if you already own the K702 and are happy with it, it's probably not a big enough improvement to go out and get the Q701 immediately. I would though. I don't see what the big deal is. BTW I never once said they're "very different". Overall, probably a 10% improvement over the K702. If won't make anyone who hates the K702 suddenly like them. Actually, it's quite possible. Everything i've ever posted are just listening impressions. I'm not here to try and prove to people what my ears hear. People just need to listen with their own ears and then decide if they want to buy them. I'm not trying to sell anyone the Q701 and don't really care if they buy them or not.

Now, I appreciate what Tyll has done for headphones, but I wish people would stop referring to his graphs and opinion as fact. Not even the graphs of the Q701 and K701 look the same! Graphs are not always accurate and don't really always reflect what someone hears. Then there is lots of variations between the graphs on Headroom and Inner Fidelity. If every headphone sounded as good as each graph, it'd sure save me a lot of money and time!

I'm all for a double blind test, but don't see the point when the difference is just so obvious to some. Seriously, it'd be virtually impossible to fail IMO.

Maybe we can convince Tyll to do some more testing for us. I bet if he did a double blind testing with the Q701 and K702 he'd be able to pick apart both easily.

Actually, I'm willing to bet money on it! Yes, even despite him saying they're basically the same. Too bad I don't have the K702 anymore or I'd get this done with someone.

I can't wait to figure out this mystery as to why they sound slightly different...

Here's those graphs. They've been posted before, but they do look different:

www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf

www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701SampleB.pdf

i was able to get the the grills off last night with no noticable damage.  completley taped over the inside of the vent and also stuffed with cotton, switching between the stock K702 pads and K601 pads.  early impressions are that taping over the vent does help to reduce the upper- mids peak.  i'm not sure what effect the cotton has yet.  i didn't twist the grill back in and am able to easily perform exchanges.  so far, no drastic changes in the sound sig.  my goal is to try to get a little more bass.  i might try "closing up" the K702 completely. 

Here is the comparison Tyl created.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/akg-quincy-jones-q701-sound-and-measurements

The differences are VERY slight - I do not believe them to be any more than sample and measurement variation within just one model would cover.