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post #421 of 489

Here is an interesting quote I read on another forum :

 

"if you can actually hear jitter something is very seriously wrong with the device."

 

http://amorgignitamorem.nl/Audio/Jitter/Detection%20threshold%20for%20distortions%20due%20to%20jitter%20on%20digital%20audio%2026_50.pdf
 


Edited by nicholars - 1/24/13 at 12:24pm
post #422 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Hmmm well I did some reading about this a while back and came to the conclusion that it is pretty unlikely that it will make any difference and is most likely just the usual cable company culprits trying to get your money!

 

From what I have read the digital information does not need to be THAT precise anyway as it is either a 1 or a 0 and there is a tolerance in the analogue waves voltages which even a basic (non faulty and well shielded) cable should be able to handle easily.... Unlike fully analogue VGA or RCA cables etc. which can easily distort and have an audible effect on the SQ.

 

Also the error checking on a decent dac and computer should not have any packet losses... I also read a few tests which were carried out with cheap and expensive USB cables and in both cases the data was 100% correct.... Although this was on an ASYNC dac IIRC. I also read one where the "audiophile" usb cable measured WORSE than a cheap one!

 

It is just data at the end of the day, the same as sending information to a printer and from what I understand the USB protocol's and error checking are easily capable of delivering bitperfect audio on any non faulty USB cable...

 

Most of those reasons are probably just marketing TBH Although apparently the Rega USB input is not its strong point.... Maybe you would be better using a decent soundcard and the coaxial S/PDIF?

 

Anyway I am not really an expert, I am not a "objectivist cynic" either, but from what I have read I doubt that anything more than a decent quality £15 max USB cable is going to make any difference at all to sound quality... I think if there was packet loss it would be in the form of pops and crackling noises etc. eg. blatantly obvious as opposed to a subtle decrease in sound quality....

 

If you do decide to buy one and try it out then make sure the testing is blind A/B testing, because it is suprising how much of a difference "expectation bias" can make to the way things sound to you. I would be interested to hear the results if you do decide to try BLIND A/B test of audiphile vs standard USB cables.

From what I know USB audio protocol do not involve error checking...

post #423 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by kn19h7 View Post

From what I know USB audio protocol do not involve error checking...

 

Isochronous (continuous) transfer mode uses error checking but no retransmission in case of CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) errors.

 

My point was that any errors from a USB cable are probably due to a faulty cable and would be clearly audible as pops and cracking noises etc.

 

My point being that expensive USB cables are probably a waste of money, maybe I am wrong but I am pretty sure that it is a waste of money!


Edited by nicholars - 1/24/13 at 12:36pm
post #424 of 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

 

Isochronous (continuous) transfer mode uses error checking but no retransmission in case of CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) errors.

 

My point was that any errors from a USB cable are probably due to a faulty cable and would be clearly audible as pops and cracking noises etc.

 

My point being that expensive USB cables are probably a waste of money, maybe I am wrong but I am pretty sure that it is a waste of money!

 

hmm at least for those USB powered device, I think the benefit of good cable is pretty possible.. for others I would prefer to reserve my opinion on the topic = =|||

post #425 of 489

Maybe but the point that I am trying to make is that "audiophile" USB cables are 99% probably overpriced rip off and and decent well shielded cable will perform the same.

 

I am very sceptical of companies like wireworld etc. They are clearly ripping off customers with snake oil theories etc. So I would not trust them personally.

 

Most DAC's where people actually use USB input are ASYNC anyway and the OP has a USB / SPDIF converter.

 

Anyway by all means try it, I just find companies like wireworld irritating as the snake oil that they try to pass off as fact is bordering on illegal. I don't really have anything else to contribute to this thread other than I am pretty sure they will not make a difference and please do not give any money to these shady companies like wireworld etc.

 

I don't see any problem with the ones costing £10-30 max but £100 or more is just absurd IMHO.

 

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-diamond-usb-type-a-to-type-mini-b-cable-5m-p-5577.html#.UQGkLGfF06I

 

£1250 for a USB cable which probably sound exactly the same as one costing £10 LOL...


Edited by nicholars - 1/24/13 at 1:10pm
post #426 of 489
I can only offer what I have heard. Switching to the Wireworld Starlight USB from a Generic Printer USB cable from my Mac Mini, to the Rega DAC, did result in a noticeable increase in musicality and clarity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Maybe but the point that I am trying to make is that "audiophile" USB cables are 99% probably overpriced rip off and and decent well shielded cable will perform the same.

I am very sceptical of companies like wireworld etc. They are clearly ripping off customers with snake oil theories etc. So I would not trust them personally.

Most DAC's where people actually use USB input are ASYNC anyway and the OP has a USB / SPDIF converter.

Anyway by all means try it, I just find companies like wireworld irritating as the snake oil that they try to pass off as fact is bordering on illegal. I don't really have anything else to contribute to this thread other than I am pretty sure they will not make a difference and please do not give any money to these shady companies like wireworld etc.

I don't see any problem with the ones costing £10-30 max but £100 or more is just absurd IMHO.

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-diamond-usb-type-a-to-type-mini-b-cable-5m-p-5577.html#.UQGkLGfF06I

£1250 for a USB cable which probably sound exactly the same as one costing £10 LOL...
post #427 of 489

Was it a blind test?...

 

Meh anyway this is a pointless conversation to continue... If you hear a difference then great... Maybe there is a difference or maybe it is expecation bias... I honestly don't know.... I am just going on my own understanding and evidence vs other peoples listening tests.... It could go on forever because it cannot be proved either way.

 

What is the benifit of an audiophillio over a M2tech hiface?

post #428 of 489

Here is a few USB cable reviews from what HIFI.....

 

Seriously how is this magazine legal? Surely this is fraud? I found it funny initially but really it is quite annoying.

 

Its almost like they enter the product name into a "random audiophile speil" generator LOL.

 

Audioquest Forest USB 1.5

Detail levels are markedly improved, there's greater precision and punch, and a general upgrade in musical expressiveness.
 

 

Silverline USB


Its performance is energetic and lively. It’s rhythmic, and does a good job of handling timing. Overall, it’s an entertaining listen. So far so good.

Unfortunately, the detail and texture isn’t all there. The Silver-line robs instruments of their characteristic textures, resulting in a less faithful reproduction.
 

 

Kimber USB

 

ts sound is well organised, providing a good sense of space. Its details are clearly conveyed and it has good timing.

It keeps up with the frantic, metallic tapping at the beginning of Little Dragon’s Ritual Union.

But the music suffers from a restrained and downbeat presentation, which makes the experience less lively. It also struggles a little with bass, which isn’t as well defined as its treble.

The Kimber USB is worth an audition, if you’re after something a bit laidback.

 

What HIFI FTW


Edited by nicholars - 1/24/13 at 3:46pm
post #429 of 489
Not a blind test, but I do trust my ears when listing to music I've listened to hundreds of times.

Both the Audiophilleo and M2Tech hiface do the same thing, but from that I have read, the Audiophilleo was rated higher, even when you add the EVO Supply. I'm still evaluating the Audiophilleo and if it does not warrant the price, I will consider other converters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Was it a blind test?...

What is the benifit of an audiophillio over a M2tech hiface?
post #430 of 489

Yeh I was just saying to avoid possible money waste on things which might be un-neccessary it would be good to set up a completely blind test. Thats what I would do if I was thinking of purchasing those products as there is such a discrepancy in peoples opinions on them and expectation bias can be a powerfull thing!

 

I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying personally I would want to make sure with a blind test if I was spending that amount of money on those products. There may very well be in improvement I don't know but also it may actually be exactly the same as a basic coaxial out of a decent sound card...


Edited by nicholars - 1/25/13 at 1:45pm
post #431 of 489

Also can you link me to the ratings of all the USB > SPDIF converters?

 

I am thinking of trying one if I decide to get a Rega Dac to try it out as the USB input is supposed to be not great on it.

post #432 of 489
Below is the link, refer to Post #68, actually in reference to the 6moons' Metrum Hex review.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/best-usb-spdif-converter-12904/index3.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Also can you link me to the ratings of all the USB > SPDIF converters?

I am thinking of trying one if I decide to get a Rega Dac to try it out as the USB input is supposed to be not great on it.
post #433 of 489

What do those numbers mean? Are they just rankings? What are they based on?

 

I cant find a link to the actual review.

post #434 of 489
Rankings is my assumption. I have not read the article either. Based on, probably opinion and subjective analysis. I cannot find it either, but have not made a huge effort to. It's a moot point for me, because regardless of the results, I still need to evaluate in my system. My goal was to choose one of the higher end converters (based on opinion), put it on the Rega DAC, and then see how well it compares to my Analog rig. I do believe Phillip of AudioPhilleo plans to put the review on his website at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

What do those numbers mean? Are they just rankings? What are they based on?

I cant find a link to the actual review.
post #435 of 489

Did you notice any difference with the USB > Spdif converter?

 

Did you try it blind by any chance?

 

Would be interested to hear the results of a blind A/B test. Would be quite easy to setup as USB/spdif converter VS optical blind A/B test using foobar and just switching the inputs.


Edited by nicholars - 2/2/13 at 5:29am
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