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[REVIEW] VSONIC GR07 – Labor of Love - Page 28

post #406 of 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

Quote:

I won't be quoting myself from another thread specifically geared to EQ:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial/555#post_7519824

 

Suffice it to say that a good equalizer won't introduce any important artifacts. Electri-Q in Analog mode is not a good one. Digital mode is fine.

I don't consider half an octave wide tuning narrow. (measuring at "-6 dB" point aka sqrt(2) aka half-tuning, total is about 30% wider)

 

EDIT: There may be issues if you don't measure finely enough where you can introduce narrow dips. This will sound "grainy" or "phasey". This is known in sfx circles as comb filtering. This and phase behavior is why you should try to simplify the eq as much as possible.


Thanks! That thread went "wheeee!" over my head. It's been a long time since I studied any sort of numerical computation.

So, I made all of my IEMs sound more or less the same, with varying degrees of "grain", thanks to the heavy EQ'ing to get a mostly flat perception. I'm backing off, and just dealing with the 7-8kHz peak, adding a bit of low bass boost, and leaving it at that. I'm letting each 'phone's character continue to shine. The resulting curves are much simpler.
post #407 of 577

Funny thing is that Hybrids introduce (or don't dampen) extra extreme high end resonance that's hard to equalize cheaply (one more notch), unlike Comply.

I really should order those small Comply T-200 to get less fiddly fit.

post #408 of 577



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryBaconGod View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

I'm also a flat is fun person but haven't found EQ to be the answer. Things have to start close to work for me. Haven't heard the GR07 but I've never seen a great fluctuations over a narrow bands to be part of a good solution.




If you don't mind my asking, what are the negative effects for you with EQ'ing? What in particular doesn't work for you?

What negative thing happens if one EQ's great fluctuations over a narrow band, if the resulting FR is flat to one's ears? Is it rounding errors causing distortions that you hear?

I'm curious about your insights as I'm trying to determine the overall value of EQ'ing to get a perceived flat FR.



For one, I haven't found the stand alone or real time Equalizer I can't hear. The one in Rockbox is good and barely noticable in use but I'm not a big Rockbox fan in general and we'tre not talking the most revealing stuff here either. I've used some top kit with more revealing sources, My home listening sytems have always suffered more from it than improved. I've have used mastering EQ in programs like Wavelab and if I'm careful about picking the type and amount of dither while rendering can get great results but that's not a listening setup. I do think you can hear less than 1 db difference but that would be more wide band and not notch as it represents a tonal change.

 

We're talking portable here and in this context, I think it better to not need to use EQ with what is described as contenders. My view is that if they don't suit, find something that does. Subtle frequency aberrations shouldn't represent problems in listening unless there is a complimentary issue or it represents ringing. All indications are that a broken in pair of GR07s should be fine as is for music appreciation unless you just want something different.

 

Personal view and I can fully understand an opposing one. Not trying to start a debate and answering your specific question. When I saw the 12 DB change it startled me a bit. 3.5 seems much more reasonable.

 


Edited by goodvibes - 6/8/11 at 4:31pm
post #409 of 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post
But like almost every IEM it has a flaw

 

True,

 

I guess I'll just have to see for myself. Different Ears.

 

I might not have a problem, who knows. 

 


 

 

post #410 of 577
goodvibes,

Thank you for clarifying. I'm not blessed (cursed?) with such nuanced hearing, so I only hear an improvement with that -3.5dB narrow cut. I find it quite remarkable how much the sound changes from that one cut alone.

I don't know about break in, but when I got the GR07's I felt they were very warm and smooth sounding. Now I feel like they are more neutral with greater detail all around, but especially in the treble. Of course making EQ changes and whatnow along the break-in process basically invalidates my impressions, as I'm not sure what changes caused what effect (including my brain burn in). But I almost feel like there should be two different GR07's. The pre-broken in GR07, and the post-broken in GR07. They'd both be great products.
Edited by AngryBaconGod - 6/8/11 at 7:29pm
post #411 of 577

I have great faith in folks ability to hear if presented in the right circumstance.

post #412 of 577

Funny thing is that the best possible fit I get with a really deep insertion when they really hold onto ears by the virtue of fit alone - I've ear canals arching upwards and the adjustment can't swing it in a normal adjustment. Unfortunately, my hacked Complys can't hold this fit. Hopefully small T-200 will and won't introduce the artifact mentioned below. Or maybe custom tips are the answer...

 

From what I have right now (which is a huge collection), Sleek Audio tiny biflanges (small even for S size) fit best (have to insert like customs with slightly twisting motion). The lower resonance ~6k gets narrower, but there's another 12k one that's pretty loud and grainy-sounding. Also the extreme high end gets rolled off - no more airy feeling. On the whole, unequalized it's preferable to shallow fit.

I'd like some tips that fit as well but don't introduce 12k resonance. Soundstaging is far better at deep insertion - the headphone feeling just disappears.

Also no loudness adjustments are necessary at all for almost all tracks...

 

The preliminary EQ for these tips, pretty hardcore:

GR07-SA6.png


Edited by AstralStorm - 6/9/11 at 2:17pm
post #413 of 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeeChosenOne View Post

In case any of you are thinking of buying Comply tips.  They are currently having a very limited time sale on their tips for 30% off.

 

That seems to be a great deal.  From what I've read, it seems the 200tx would work great with these (less tight fitting than the 100s).

 

Link:

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?sduid=366791&t=2989929


 

 

ive seen a lot of "from what ive read" posts about which comply tips fit and which dont. has anyone hear actually figured out which ones fit? or maybe there are other foamies that fit better? and thanks for the link Chosenone, appreciate it.

 


Edited by Startech17 - 6/9/11 at 6:02pm
post #414 of 577
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startech17 View Post

 

ive seen a lot of "from what ive read" posts about which comply tips fit and which dont. has anyone hear actually figured out which ones fit? or maybe there are other foamies that fit better? and thanks for the link Chosenone, appreciate it.

 


Already posted a few times in this thread that the Comply T140 WILL fit (yes, I tried), so is JAYS foam (which I am using now). I will get some T200 soon and I'll report back if it fits or not.

 

post #415 of 577

I got the Comply Tx200s and P's(100) in the mail.

 

The P's are snugger fitting to the GR07 stem, but in no way difficult to put on.  As a matter of fact, I like the snug fit.

 

The TX200 are less snug fitting.  One tip (defective?) did get stuck in my ear when I pulled out the IEM, but the others did better---meh, who knows?  Although, to be fair, I do pull from the IEM instead of gingerly pinching from the foam end to remove them....maybe it's a technique I have to change in my habit from my Ety/silicone tip days (obviously no issues with the snugger P's, of course).  I would prefer a tighter fit, but they do work and I can see why people in other forums use the 200's.  Again, I have the TX200 with the wax guard.  I went jogging with the TX200s on and had no issues whatsoever.   Regardless, other's have been using the T200's so probably they're a little snugger fitting(?).....I don't know.

 

These tips are very comfortable and isolate really well, but it does take tweaking the soft foam with the articulated/movable nozzle to get the sound to come out properly.  In comparison, the stock silicone tips are slam-bam ready-to-go, but with the soft Comply foam, you have to work at it a little bit.

 

I hope this info. helps anybody thinking of getting Comply tips for this IEM (which sounds GREAT -- currently going on 170 hrs break-in time).


Edited by TheeeChosenOne - 6/10/11 at 9:41pm
post #416 of 577

hmm, i really like the tx's too. id rather not have to deal with the tips possibly getting stuck in my ear. though the p's do have better isolation...bleh, ill just grab a crap ton of them then, lol. thanks for the post chosenone :D

post #417 of 577

Has anyone found tips that help to deal with some of the lower treble sibilance (around 8-10k)? I'm currently using the small stock tips and they are incredbily comfortable, but for faster songs with lots of cymbals at medium to higher volumes the sibilance starts to wear me down. What tips are most people using?

post #418 of 577

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflac View Post

Has anyone found tips that help to deal with some of the lower treble sibilance (around 8-10k)? I'm currently using the small stock tips and they are incredbily comfortable, but for faster songs with lots of cymbals at medium to higher volumes the sibilance starts to wear me down. What tips are most people using?



I have burned in these IEMs for over 170 hrs and the sibilance that was present at the beginning is totally gone.  This IEM does go thru some serious improvement in this area.  Burn them in for 200 hrs and hopefully that issue will be resolved.

 

If you're looking for a tip to do this, I don't think this is really possible in the amounts you may be seeking.

 

Perhaps, your best bet would be the wax-preventing sheathing of the Comply TX model which may or may not help reduce that for you by a tiny smidge.  Some have said this about the TX on other IEMs....and yet others say no decibel alteration in the least whatsoever.

 

Basically....you'll never know how it'll be until you try it on your head with your ears.  smile_phones.gif   Just make sure to try them at Radio Shack so you can return them if they don't work for you.  If you order from Comply, you're SOL once you open the package.  Just a heads-up for you on that....


Edited by TheeeChosenOne - 6/10/11 at 9:53pm
post #419 of 577

Well, for me, Sleek Audio tiny biflange tips with very deep insertion (as deep as possible) tamed the sibilance, or rather moved it into highs. Changed some of the more annoying sibilance and nasal feeling into lots of sparkle. In general, they sound more balanced in this configuration. A quick check on old decored medium Comply T-100 with shallow fit confirmed it's not some form of burn-in. (now it's around 80h)

 

My small T-200 are waiting in the mail, will check them in half an hour, stay tuned.

post #420 of 577

EDIT: Actually wait, it IS possible to push T-200 one step deeper in using a bit of force. Testing that configuration now, stand by for more edit.

EDIT2: Yes, they hold. You need to push them in beyond the lowest ridge, then they'll hold. However, then they're a bit short for a deep fit...

Sound tests follows.


Edited by AstralStorm - 6/11/11 at 1:10am
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