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The List: Balanced amps under $1,000 (aka Amps NOT to buy) - Page 2

post #16 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

Sorry, didnt see it included on the bottom line. You can get a balanced beta22 used a lot of times for about $1000. Great amp if you can find one.



Great amp if you can find one for sure, but I wouldn't say you can find one a lot of times used at $1000.  That especially goes for the nicer builds.

post #17 of 87

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

Remember if you are trying to get a balanced amp for $1000, you really are getting 2 $500 amps.


I don't think manufacturers factor the economics of their designs in that way to be honest.


I agree

 

Its 2 $400 amps with 1 $100 power supply.

post #18 of 87

 

 

I feel sorry for the OP that the thread has degenerated into bashing sub $1000 amps when I doubt very much that those concerned have listened to them.

 

Of course their is the problem of being an Audiophile with a sub $1000  SS amp in the bragging stakes,but that is about all.

 

Hell of a lot of those in the KNOW forked out $4-$5000 for a little steel box with a few tubes sticking out of it and a tendancy to blow up,that is if they were lucky enough to get an amp.

 

Not long ago I forked out $5000 for what is touted as a great combo for the K1000,after 4 days I sent it back,lucky for me all it cost was the postage.

 

Of course we are talking real amps here not overpriced,boutique room heaters with fancy names. 

 

post #19 of 87



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

Sorry, didnt see it included on the bottom line. You can get a balanced beta22 used a lot of times for about $1000. Great amp if you can find one.



 I am sure their are hundreds waiting to be pointed in the right direction.

 

How about we move the ballpark up to $1500.

 

And remember it is Very difficult to pick differences between SS amps.They do not have the distortion of tubes to add flavour.

post #20 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2 View Post

 

 

I feel sorry for the OP that the thread has degenerated into bashing sub $1000 amps when I doubt very much that those concerned have listened to them.

 

Of course their is the problem of being an Audiophile with a sub $1000  SS amp in the bragging stakes,but that is about all.

 

 

Yes there have been bad experiences in the past and last I checked, there are still some of those going around.  That said, $1000 sounds like a lot of money, but unfortunately it doesn't have the buying power you might think it has, especially if you're thinking about getting a top flight rig.  I've heard some cheap stuff and I've heard some pricey stuff, and I will admit that not always does the more expensive stuff win.  However, for something like balanced, to do it "right" and have the experience be worthwhile, from where I stand, you need to be able and willing to spend. Last I checked, a part of the hobby is trying to get the best bang for your buck. For $1000, I agree that looking at single ended is something you might want to look into as that SE amp very well might outperform the balanced amp.  And yes, I've seen it happen where a SE amp can outperform a balanced one.
 


Edited by PFKMan23 - 1/27/11 at 4:00pm
post #21 of 87

 

 

Maybe a few here should consider a couple of well known amps that fall well within the price range.

 

One was the balanced K1000 amp sold by AKG and still available for well under $1000.

 

And the second concerns an amp that has been touted as one of the best,the First Watt F1 can be built for around $400.

post #22 of 87

WRONG

 

$900 for the fancy case, 2 $40 amps, and 1 $10 PSU :P 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

Remember if you are trying to get a balanced amp for $1000, you really are getting 2 $500 amps.


I don't think manufacturers factor the economics of their designs in that way to be honest.


I agree

 

Its 2 $400 amps with 1 $100 power supply.

post #23 of 87

Add $1500 for a fancy sounding Italian name and we have a high end amp.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

WRONG

 

$900 for the fancy case, 2 $40 amps, and 1 $10 PSU :P 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post

Remember if you are trying to get a balanced amp for $1000, you really are getting 2 $500 amps.


I don't think manufacturers factor the economics of their designs in that way to be honest.


I agree

 

Its 2 $400 amps with 1 $100 power supply.


 
post #24 of 87

At this price, LD MK VI+ may be the only acceptable choice according to performance. But if add cost of rolling tube, it will be far beyond $1000. The stock tubes can not bring its potential into full play.

post #25 of 87
You should really consider single-ended amps, as well. Not everything that calls itself balanced is actually balanced. There are quite a few single-ended amps with XLR jacks passing themselves off as "balanced."

Do you know how to tell balanced from single-ended? Aside from XLR jacks and marketing drivel, of course.

If you want a truly balanced amp under $1,000, you'll probably have to build it yourself. That being said, are you sure that balancing has any benefit other than bridging amps? You should turn a critical eye on this. Otherwise, you might get fleeced. Some of the most vocal proponents of going "balanced" are actually running single-ended amps.

Caveat emptor.
post #26 of 87

To add on to Uncle Erik's post, anyone thinking about a balanced amp also needs a balanced source component. While there are balanced amps with built-in phase inverters, that is not the ideal way to go about achieving a balanced system. A proper balanced system has a source component with dual-differential balanced XLR output with a minimum of two stereo DAC chips, one per channel (more are preferrable to minimize noise), or alternately a minimum of 4 mono DAC chips, 2 per channel.

 

I see lots of people on Head-Fi wanting to buy everything as cheaply as possible. While it's natural to want to minimize cost, good balanced equipment isn't cheap. It costs serious money. In fact, I might be so bold to state that anything that claims to be balanced and is cheap is most likely cutting corners somewhere. Anyone seriously looking to get into balanced gear should be prepared to pay for it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post
You can get a balanced beta22 used a lot of times for about $1000. Great amp if you can find one.


A balanced B22 for $1K would be extremely unlikely unless a seller was being extra generous. $1K is a typical amount for unbalanced B22s. I paid ~$1.8K for the 4-channel balanced B22 that I used to own (which I commissioned, didn't buy it used).

post #27 of 87

I retract my statement then. It seems that nobody thinks you can get them for that price. I thought I had seen them going for that price before. It must have been single ended ones.

post #28 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

To add on to Uncle Erik's post, anyone thinking about a balanced amp also needs a balanced source component. While there are balanced amps with built-in phase inverters, that is not the ideal way to go about achieving a balanced system. A proper balanced system has a source component with dual-differential balanced XLR output with a minimum of two stereo DAC chips, one per channel (more are preferrable to minimize noise), or alternately a minimum of 4 mono DAC chips, 2 per channel.

 

I see lots of people on Head-Fi wanting to buy everything as cheaply as possible. While it's natural to want to minimize cost, good balanced equipment isn't cheap. It costs serious money. In fact, I might be so bold to state that anything that claims to be balanced and is cheap is most likely cutting corners somewhere. Anyone seriously looking to get into balanced gear should be prepared to pay for it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post
You can get a balanced beta22 used a lot of times for about $1000. Great amp if you can find one.


A balanced B22 for $1K would be extremely unlikely unless a seller was being extra generous. $1K is a typical amount for unbalanced B22s. I paid ~$1.8K for the 4-channel balanced B22 that I used to own (which I commissioned, didn't buy it used).


True , if you use good parts the parts alone cost you around 800 or so. cause it has 2 transformers as well. 

then there is task of assembling it.

 

1000 for a balanced B22 is not possible. ( unless there is a problem with it )

post #29 of 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by singh View Post
True , if you use good parts the parts alone cost you around 800 or so. cause it has 2 transformers as well. 

then there is task of assembling it.

 

1000 for a balanced B22 is not possible. ( unless there is a problem with it )


It's possible, but the case and the volume control would have to be pretty much the cheapest available and you'd have to DIY.  I really don't see a builder valuing their time more or less at nothing. If you DIY, you'd have to value your time at almost nothing as well. The B22 is a pretty time consuming build that is exacerbated if there's a a problem.  I've seen and talked to a couple builders about what a balanced B22 would cost and most I've seen are saying $2,500-$3000.  You might find someone to do it cheaper, but I'd budget at least $2,500 if I was going to commission a build today.

post #30 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFKMan23 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by singh View Post
True , if you use good parts the parts alone cost you around 800 or so. cause it has 2 transformers as well. 

then there is task of assembling it.

 

1000 for a balanced B22 is not possible. ( unless there is a problem with it )


It's possible, but the case and the volume control would have to be pretty much the cheapest available and you'd have to DIY.  I really don't see a builder valuing their time more or less at nothing. If you DIY, you'd have to value your time at almost nothing as well. The B22 is a pretty time consuming build that is exacerbated if there's a a problem.  I've seen and talked to a couple builders about what a balanced B22 would cost and most I've seen are saying $2,500-$3000.  You might find someone to do it cheaper, but I'd budget at least $2,500 if I was going to commission a build today.



its possible if i build it (parts will cos time around 900 ) and the case will cost me around 20-30. (will build it myself. )

 

assembly and matching are a bitch. it will take a month or so, thats why i said no one can sell a balanced B22 below 1000.

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