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Challenge: M60 - Page 2

post #16 of 28

There's so many better headphones out there than the M50. The problem is just that nobody seems to want to take any effort to find them and would just rather go with whatever else someone says is "Best". I perfectly understand this and not everyone does this. Why do you think so many great headphones are ignored forever? If you check out ljokerl's reviews, you can find many just as good as the M50. It's best to just find the signature YOU like and find a headphone to match it. I now rarely go by reviews anymore. If I did this I'd have skipped out on many of them.

 

I personally don't understand why people call the M50 balanced. Bloated bass, slightly recessed mids and rolled off highs (my pair, seriously) is balanced? I did like my pair a lot, but I was never impressed with them at all because it's just not my type of signature. I do understand the white box version is much brighter. Based on sound, I'd take the SRH-840 over the M50 any day. It's too bad the comfort is terrible. Now as for the 440 or the M50, maybe the M50. Only because the 440 was kind of too bright for me. It did have a better fit than the 440 though.

 

The headphone that's better to me in nearly every single way compared to the M50 is the Koss Pro DJ 100. Better bass and better mids, soundstage and imaging. They're also built better and are much cheaper and smaller. They even kind of fold up. For being only $80 they have a ton of detail. It's the first cheap headphone that made me believe an $80 pair CAN compete with $150-$200 headphones and price doesn't always mean everything. They're even better than my old favorite the SRH-840!

 

I actually think the D2000 is more neutral than the M50. This is only when amp. It's bass when amped with a desktop amp doesn't feel excessive or bloated in any way. I actually would never use a D2000 unamped though..ever.

 

Another headphone I'd take over the M50 is the AKG K240 Studio for $99 or the new Sennheiser HD-598. I paid $170 for mine and it's sure to come down in price. Nearly everything is good on these to my ears. It's soundstage and imaging is the best part. Too bad they're so ugly. The DJ100 is better in most areas except for comfort and the soundstage. Level of detail is much higher on the DJ100, but the HD-598 isn't too far behind. I love how it doesn't seem to be as "laid-back" as the other Sennheiser headphones i've owned. I hate to say it, but I might even like my HD-598 more than my old HD-600!

post #17 of 28

The white box M50 I listened to has good highs, certainly not rolled off, and the mids is not as recessed as the D2000. Bass is bumped up but is well controlled by closed headphones standard. I categorize it as a balanced headphone even running unamped (my personal benchmark for a balanced headphone is the Sennheiser HD600)

 

The dark blue box M50 I compared it too have a more recessed mids but more controlled bass but still sound fairly similar. Maybe I'll try to compare all the M50s when I go to the next local meet and see for myself if there is actually any difference in sound between each M50s.

The D2000 responds well to amp, so maybe a big part of the difference in opinions in all D2000 discussions can be contributed by setup. 

 

The K240S have a kind of overly warm and undefined sound to my ears. It is pleasant and open-sounding though. The HD598 now that the price has gone down to $160 ish in the U.S. can easily compete with the best sub $200 but the grain on its sound is very noticeable, even compared to the cheaper M50.

 

Just my 2 cents.

post #18 of 28

Say what you will about the M50, the treble is certainly not recessed.  If anything it is a bit emphasized.  Recessed compared to headphones like the Denons or Grados or a K701?  Yes of course, but that doesn't mean they are actually recessed compared to the recording or compared to a reference.

post #19 of 28


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiwaz42 View Post

My question is: Are the M50's the end all/be all headphone in its class? Is it impossible to find similar all-round qualities, punch, soundstage without paying 5 times as much for t5p or Edition 8?

 

Is there nothing in between? Please help me, lead me to that unfound "m60" smily_headphones1.gif


LOL. I think the M50 is a very good headphone and I recommend it where appropriate, but this thread just highlights how things have gotten out of hand.

post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiwaz42 View Post

 

I have my doubts about the SRH840 - Haven't heard them but it seems to me there is an overweight of people thinking the M50 bests it by a margin in most aspects.



I'd wager that a large number of those people haven't actually heard both of those headphones.  I think that it is also a safe bet that a huge percentage of the people that constantly sing the M50's praises picked them up as their first and only "major" audio purchase.  I haven't heard either, so I can't speak to their relative strengths and weaknesses.  I can, however tell you that there are entirely too many people that will either recommend or put down equipment when they have no experience with it. 

post #21 of 28



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esotericjester View Post


I'd wager that a large number of those people haven't actually heard both of those headphones.  I think that it is also a safe bet that a huge percentage of the people that constantly sing the M50's praises picked them up as their first and only "major" audio purchase.  I haven't heard either, so I can't speak to their relative strengths and weaknesses.  I can, however tell you that there are entirely too many people that will either recommend or put down equipment when they have no experience with it. 


Some of your assumptions have merit. Yes, there are a lot of people who write about things with which they have had no direct experience. Obviously they shouldn't unless they are discussing only what they have read and make it very clear (as you did) that they are not speaking from first-hand knowledge.

 

Yes, there are many who praise the M50 but have no other basis for comparison. It doesn't invalidate their praise, one simply has to put into perspective and take it for what it's worth.

 

As for those who have had both, I can name three who've commented in this thread who have owned both... including myself. We speak from first hand experience. Yet even among us there is a difference of opinion. That's to be expected. These are just opinions and they are worth as much value as you put on them. Get to know a 'reviewer'; understand their tastes and how they listen and hear, take their opinion for what it's worth... then listen to them yourself and make your own judgments.
 

post #22 of 28



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esotericjester View Post


I'd wager that a large number of those people haven't actually heard both of those headphones.  I think that it is also a safe bet that a huge percentage of the people that constantly sing the M50's praises picked them up as their first and only "major" audio purchase.  I haven't heard either, so I can't speak to their relative strengths and weaknesses.  I can, however tell you that there are entirely too many people that will either recommend or put down equipment when they have no experience with it. 


Some of your assumptions have merit. Yes, there are a lot of people who write about things with which they have had no direct experience. Obviously they shouldn't unless they are discussing only what they have read and make it very clear (as you did) that they are not speaking from first-hand knowledge.

 

Yes, there are many who praise the M50 but have no other basis for comparison. It doesn't invalidate their praise, one simply has to put into perspective and take it for what it's worth.

 

As for those who have had both, I can name three who've commented in this thread who have owned both... including myself. We speak from first hand experience. Yet even among us there is a difference of opinion. That's to be expected. These are just opinions and they are worth as much value as you put on them. Get to know a 'reviewer'; understand their tastes and how they listen and hear, take their opinion for what it's worth... then listen to them yourself and make your own judgments.
 



 To clarify, my statements were about the site as a whole, not this thread specifically and weren't an effort to invalidate any comparisons made here by people that have experience with both headphones. 

 

I do disagree somewhat with one part of your position, though.  I think having experience with only one product does somewhat invalidate praise for it.  There has to be a basis for comparison for "good," "better" and "best" to have meaning.  For example, I bought the Klipsch S4 a while ago.  They were the highest quality purchase I had made to that point.  They were better than ibuds and the JVC marshmallows that I had used in the past.  If you had asked me if they were good at the time that I purchased them, I would have said yes.  I was conscious of the fact that they had areas that could use improvement, but I still considered them good.  If you ask me if they are good right now, I would say no without hesitation.  The flaws that I was slightly conscious of before have been exaggerated by other equipment that is, in my opinion, much better.  The bar was set so low before that I could not have given good advice about them to another person.  I would not have been able to adequately describe the severity of the flaws.  I am sure that my experience was not unique.

 

I think people tend to be more critical of equipment after they have made several purchases.  I also think that people should state their basis of comparision any time they make one.    If I tell someone that a certain amp is the best tube amp that I have ever heard it sounds impressive.  If I later admit that it is the only tube amp that I have heard my statement carries significantly less weight.  These types of statements tend to be thrown around more often regarding flavor of the month type products. 

 

I am not trying to put down people that do not have experience with more than one set of headphones.  I am however warning the thread starter to be careful about putting too much stock in (possibly) uninformed opinions since he/she dismissed the SRH 840 based on what seems to be the popular opinion.

 

Hopefully you don't see this as me trying to argue with you because that is not my intention.  In the end, I think our perspective on this is fairly similar.  I will end my rant now, and try not to further derail this thread.

post #23 of 28

Nothing can beat m50 for what it does. even higher price ones headphone has trouble. there's a reason that it's the most recommeded headphone on this forum. 

post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by esotericjester View Post

 To clarify, my statements were about the site as a whole, not this thread specifically and weren't an effort to invalidate any comparisons made here by people that have experience with both headphones. 

 

I do disagree somewhat with one part of your position, though.  I think having experience with only one product does somewhat invalidate praise for it.  There has to be a basis for comparison for "good," "better" and "best" to have meaning.  For example, I bought the Klipsch S4 a while ago.  They were the highest quality purchase I had made to that point.  They were better than ibuds and the JVC marshmallows that I had used in the past.  If you had asked me if they were good at the time that I purchased them, I would have said yes.  I was conscious of the fact that they had areas that could use improvement, but I still considered them good.  If you ask me if they are good right now, I would say no without hesitation.  The flaws that I was slightly conscious of before have been exaggerated by other equipment that is, in my opinion, much better.  The bar was set so low before that I could not have given good advice about them to another person.  I would not have been able to adequately describe the severity of the flaws.  I am sure that my experience was not unique.

 

I think people tend to be more critical of equipment after they have made several purchases.  I also think that people should state their basis of comparision any time they make one.    If I tell someone that a certain amp is the best tube amp that I have ever heard it sounds impressive.  If I later admit that it is the only tube amp that I have heard my statement carries significantly less weight.  These types of statements tend to be thrown around more often regarding flavor of the month type products. 

 

I am not trying to put down people that do not have experience with more than one set of headphones.  I am however warning the thread starter to be careful about putting too much stock in (possibly) uninformed opinions since he/she dismissed the SRH 840 based on what seems to be the popular opinion.

 

Hopefully you don't see this as me trying to argue with you because that is not my intention.  In the end, I think our perspective on this is fairly similar.  I will end my rant now, and try not to further derail this thread.



No worries... I agree with what you said, and that's why I stated "It doesn't invalidate their praise, one simply has to put into perspective and take it for what it's worth. "

 

It's worth no more than the praise of someone who has nothing to compare it to. But it doesn't take away from their opinion. I realize it's a fine line and a matter of semantics, but yes... we're saying roughly the same thing.

post #25 of 28

The M50 has its strengths, but I sometimes have to shake my head at how often it gets pushed around here. It's not neutral, not by any stretch of the objective mind. That's fine--if it sounds good, then I'm not going to tell you you need to stop listening immediately because it's not accurate. But it also means that its tonal flavor might not be to some people's liking (e.g. me, as I gave mine up after two weeks), and sometimes I wonder at the objectivity of those who recommend it to everyone, all the time, as the "best." Even with headphones I like I am aware of their faults. This is not to say that there aren't any objective Head-Fi'ers, at least in regards to the M50. But it's been Flavor of the Forum for as long as I've been here, and even further back than that. Audio-Technica must love us. smily_headphones1.gif

 

Anyway, as far as the sound, the bass, particularly the sub bass, is emphasized. The latter is fine, except that the upper bass/lower mids sound colored and thick as a result. The treble has that metallic bite that others have mentioned; it's not horrible but it definitely sounds like a treble spike, which it is. The mids sounded laid back and overly smooth to me--it was maddening trying to pick them out sometimes. Imaging was pretty good, separation was excellent, and soundstage was pretty nice for a closed headphone.

 

I personally had trouble with cohesion of the sonic image, as in the traditional "three blobs" representation (one for each ear, and one in the middle) the middle blob was missing. I'm not sure how common this is (probably not very common), but it was what finally made me box them up.

 

So, to sum it up: they're decent if you look at the less-subjective stuff at the end, and either great or annoying once you consider the tonal balance, depending on preference. The M50 is definitely not the end all headphone, but that doesn't mean that you won't like it or that those who do are wrong. I ended up preferring the SRH440 in the long run. I auditioned both at the same time and chose the M50 based on the wow factor of its "fun" sound signature. As it turned out, the more understated, neutral tonality of the 440 suits me better.

post #26 of 28

@ Argyris. Good points.

 

The M50 is far from a 'perfect' HP. It's not neutral... well, not to my ears, and certainly not as 'neutral' as the SRH840. The M50 is 'U' shaped and on the warm side. It's bass can seem bloated, and many complain about their metalic highs.

 

If someone really loves the M50, or thinks it's a great value (include me there...), they'll recommend them (or whichever they feel fit the category) whenever the question is asked: "Which headphones for around $100". And for every M50 'pusher', there is a one who recommendes SRH840 (440), K702, DT148, etc. It's the nature of the beast. If it works for me, it's got to work for others. I'm happy with it, you should try it.

 

I think things balance out pretty well around here, and while there seem to be certain cans that get recommended more than others (FOTM and all), there may be reasons for that which transcend pure fanboyism.

post #27 of 28

Hello Guys,

 

Well...Guys alot of brands now are on the track of copying the capability of M50s or even trying to outwit it. i was wondering...how come the Award-winning Music Engineers and producers of Grammy's love the M50s. I gues found the answer here:

 

 

http://www.frontendaudio.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Headphones-p/9999-02031.htm

 http://www.headfonia.com/closed-cans-shootout-m-50-esw-9-t50p-hd25-1-beats-studio-srh-840-srh-750dj-k181dj-and-dj1pro/

post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by audire View Post

Hello Guys,

 

Well...Guys alot of brands now are on the track of copying the capability of M50s or even trying to outwit it. i was wondering...how come the Award-winning Music Engineers and producers of Grammy's love the M50s. I gues found the answer here:

 

 

http://www.frontendaudio.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Headphones-p/9999-02031.htm

 http://www.headfonia.com/closed-cans-shootout-m-50-esw-9-t50p-hd25-1-beats-studio-srh-840-srh-750dj-k181dj-and-dj1pro/


shill much?  all your posts are about these links.  do you work for audio-technica?

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