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Potentially dumb question...

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I was just wondering what the best choice would be for me atm...

 

I'm considering either buying a higher end power cable for my woo audio 6 (nothing crazy, ~$50-100), saving up for a cleaner power supply like: http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/AV-Power-Center-3000?cat=power , or upgrading the tubes (sophia princess).

 

Which would I benefit the most from? I'm pretty low on money, so I'm only able to get one component every few months.

 

Thanks, and sorry for the noob-ish question :)

post #2 of 17

If you're short of cash and prioritizing bang for the buck, remember that a power cord has no real-time role in your amp's performance.  (Your amp will work without any power cord - you can prove this by letting it play for a few minutes, and then disconnecting.  The amp will play on with no loss of previous fidelity for a few seconds, until the power supply capacitors empty out.)  The power cord is there to top up those capacitors as needed, that's all.  Anything electrically conductive and rated for the right current and voltage will work just fine.

 

Equally your amp has a beefy and well-regulated power supply, so "cleaning" the power on its way from the wall is superfluous.  Like bringing cooked food into a chef's kitchen.  The Woo doesn't need PS's help, frankly.  It's fine on its own.

 

So spend your $$ on tubes.  That's where the action is.  Try rolling the 6ED7s first, and the rectifier later.

post #3 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by InnerSpace View Post

If you're short of cash and prioritizing bang for the buck, remember that a power cord has no real-time role in your amp's performance.  (Your amp will work without any power cord - you can prove this by letting it play for a few minutes, and then disconnecting.  The amp will play on with no loss of previous fidelity for a few seconds, until the power supply capacitors empty out.)  The power cord is there to top up those capacitors as needed, that's all.  Anything electrically conductive and rated for the right current and voltage will work just fine.

 

Equally your amp has a beefy and well-regulated power supply, so "cleaning" the power on its way from the wall is superfluous.  Like bringing cooked food into a chef's kitchen.  The Woo doesn't need PS's help, frankly.  It's fine on its own.

 

So spend your $$ on tubes.  That's where the action is.  Try rolling the 6ED7s first, and the rectifier later.

 

The amp still needs a power cord to put power in the capacitors, and power cords can let in interference and the interference will then go with the power into the capacitors , power cord wise id recommend something cheap and shielded you really don't need a cord with massive 8 gauge cores.

I do agree that av power centre looks like a waste of money, unless you have really bad hissing or humming from the amp, a good cheaper alternative is the Tacima SC5723 Mains Interferance Conditioner it's around £30 and has surge and spike protection.

 

Does the sound from the amp have hissing or anything that would indicate interference getting in though the power?, if no then upgrade the tubes first , if there is hissing present from the amp then get a sheilded power cord and a power conditioner first.

post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post
The amp still needs a power cord to put power in the capacitors, and power cords can let in interference and the interference will then go with the power into the capacitors , power cord wise id recommend something cheap and shielded you really don't need a cord with massive 8 gauge cores.

 

As proven by the "unplugging" experiment: no amount of disruption (interference) in the supply survives the capacitor. The exception, obviously, would be if there's insufficient power to replenish that lost by the capacitor over a protracted period (also shown by the unplugging experiment).

 

Quote:

I do agree that av power centre looks like a waste of money, unless you have really bad hissing or humming from the amp, a good cheaper alternative is the Tacima SC5723 Mains Interferance Conditioner it's around £30 and has surge and spike protection

 

Hum is a ground-fault loop, Hiss is the over-gain of the noise floor.

 

Quote:
Does the sound from the amp have hissing or anything that would indicate interference getting in though the power?, if no then upgrade the tubes first , if there is hissing present from the amp then get a sheilded power cord and a power conditioner first.


No. If you have a hiss: raise the volume on the incoming signal. Start at the source and check the output levels at each stage. If you have a hum: make sure that all your equipment is plugged into the same circuit... though most likely, the loop is occuring with the interconnects, not the power cables.

post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

No. If you have a hiss: raise the volume on the incoming signal. Start at the source and check the output levels at each stage. If you have a hum: make sure that all your equipment is plugged into the same circuit... though most likely, the loop is occuring with the interconnects, not the power cables.

What about if after unplugging everything all the interconnects, you still have a hissing noise thats though dirty power, my speakers would hiss though dirty power my heavily shielded power cord greatly reduced that hiss.

 

post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

What about if after unplugging everything all the interconnects, you still have a hissing noise thats though dirty power, my speakers would hiss though dirty power my heavily shielded power cord greatly reduced that hiss.

 

If it was a buzz, I would suspect you went from a grounded power cable to an ungrounded power-cable (resolving a ground loop).

 

Here's a funny story. I have generic power cables (and no power conditioner, so dozens of feet of aluminum cable leading to a breaker and then dozens more feet to the power transformer) and no abnormally high hiss (which is to say I have a measured SNL well within spec). How come?

 

Why isn't your speaker cable picking up far more hiss? It has less power running through it and is longer.

Assuming your depiction of events is accurate: there's a factor you are simply unaware of and so not mentioning.

post #7 of 17

It is a edifier s730 system , at really low volumes the hiss was louder than the music, because i had everything all interconnects unplugged and everthing else switched laptop,tv etc, so it was really clear the hiss was caused by interference in the power, i brought a cheap heavily sheilded power cord and with all interconnects unplugged and everything else switched off as before, i connected up the new power cord and listerned for the hiss  it was still there but quite faint greatly reduced from what it was with the standard power cord.

post #8 of 17

Here's a funny story. I have generic power cables (and no power conditioner, so dozens of feet of aluminum cable leading to a breaker and then dozens more feet to the power transformer) and no abnormally high hiss (which is to say I have a measured SNL well within spec). How come?

post #9 of 17

Good Lord, is going to degenerate into another power cable pi$$ing contest? Astroman, go with the tubes, they'll effect an audible change. The chance of your hearing a difference by upgrading the power cable or adding a power conditioner are between slim and none.

post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Here's a funny story. I have generic power cables (and no power conditioner, so dozens of feet of aluminum cable leading to a breaker and then dozens more feet to the power transformer) and no abnormally high hiss (which is to say I have a measured SNL well within spec). How come?

 

The power you have is probley cleaner than mine, also i might have more interference from radio waves etc than you, theres so many variables.

post #11 of 17

The "garden hose" explanation? All power supplies lay between two poles of alternating current -- the hot and neutral. Once powered on, components represent the beginning of an electrical interaction, not an end point. A better analogy is more like tapping a reservoir of current beginning at the electrical panel. Everything in-between represents an interaction including connection points, outlets, all the in-wall wire conducting other contaminating AC noise and influences like AC motors, CFLs, computers, back EMF, etc. In this way a power cord actually is an extension of the local power supply. 

 

Back to the Op's original question, the Sophia rectifier is a better rectifier and, hence it improves the power supply of the Woo. This in turn could impact the sound quality of the amplifier.    


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Here's a funny story. I have generic power cables (and no power conditioner, so dozens of feet of aluminum cable leading to a breaker and then dozens more feet to the power transformer) and no abnormally high hiss (which is to say I have a measured SNL well within spec). How come?

post #12 of 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Here's a funny story. I have generic power cables (and no power conditioner, so dozens of feet of aluminum cable leading to a breaker and then dozens more feet to the power transformer) and no abnormally high hiss (which is to say I have a measured SNL well within spec). How come?

 

The power you have is probley cleaner than mine, also i might have more interference from radio waves etc than you, theres so many variables.


I missed if you had a power-cleaner.. so I'll address both options:

 

You do: You believe that your power cable picked up more "dirty power" in a couple of feet than I did in (at least) the 200ft to the nearest transformer (which is far less a power-conditioner than a capicater is)?

 

You don't: So in the hundreds of feet of very basic power cable you have, you believe the issue is the last couple of feet?

 

Neither one of those makes sense. What makes sense is either that it was not a hiss (but a buzz or hum. which is indicative of an electrical issue, but not "dirty power"), or that there's another factor involved. .

post #13 of 17


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim View Post

The "garden hose" explanation? All power supplies lay between two poles of alternating current -- the hot and neutral. Once powered on, components represent the beginning of an electrical interaction, not an end point. A better analogy is more like tapping a reservoir of current beginning at the electrical panel. Everything in-between represents an interaction including connection points, outlets, all the in-wall wire conducting other contaminating AC noise and influences like AC motors, CFLs, computers, back EMF, etc. In this way a power cord actually is an extension of the local power supply. 


Which sounds like a "sources of dirty power" explanation attempt. None of those sources is affected by the amount of shielding on the power cable (and the vast bulk will have no effect on the output of an amp's capacitor)

 

My HVAC kicking in clearly affects my power; but it doesn't make a hiss... it doesn't affect my sound at all (though it effects my lights).

post #14 of 17

Jerry, the fact is, that JRG's hiss was significantly reduced by introducing a heavily shield power cord. It was an audible difference and, based on JRG's description, it would also be measurable. Unless, his description is based on psychological influences, i.e. he only wanted to believe there was a difference.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

It is a edifier s730 system , at really low volumes the hiss was louder than the music, because i had everything all interconnects unplugged and everthing else switched laptop,tv etc, so it was really clear the hiss was caused by interference in the power, i brought a cheap heavily sheilded power cord and with all interconnects unplugged and everything else switched off as before, i connected up the new power cord and listerned for the hiss  it was still there but quite faint greatly reduced from what it was with the standard power cord.

post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Here's a funny story. I have generic power cables (and no power conditioner, so dozens of feet of aluminum cable leading to a breaker and then dozens more feet to the power transformer) and no abnormally high hiss (which is to say I have a measured SNL well within spec). How come?

 

The power you have is probley cleaner than mine, also i might have more interference from radio waves etc than you, theres so many variables.


I missed if you had a power-cleaner.. so I'll address both options:

 

You do: You believe that your power cable picked up more "dirty power" in a couple of feet than I did in (at least) the 200ft to the nearest transformer (which is far less a power-conditioner than a capicater is)?

 

You don't: So in the hundreds of feet of very basic power cable you have, you believe the issue is the last couple of feet?

 

Neither one of those makes sense. What makes sense is either that it was not a hiss (but a buzz or hum. which is indicative of an electrical issue, but not "dirty power"), or that there's another factor involved. .

No power cleaner , it was a hissing sound like static coming though the tweeters, i knew 100% the inference was entering though the power some how some where , i took a punt that a shielded powercord might reduce it and at the same time improve the sound quality i could have returned the power cord and got my money back if it had made no difference so i gave it go, the only varable being the powercord A/B ing them with the device volume at 0, stock cord audioable static louder than music til vol level 4, sheilded power cord static greatly reduced alot softer sounding aswell no longer more audioable than music to vol 1, the difference was too big to be placebo plus i didn't actually care whether the new cord was any better than the stock 1 as i could return it for my money back within 30days.

The sub with the amp behind it used to buzz aswell it was only audioable if you put your ear to it though the power cord didn't solve this, i had a mains block custom made with it's own ground loop that solved the problem, so i know the difference between a buzz/hum ground loop and static from interference.
 

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