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Sound is NOT a subjective "Thing" ! . - Page 3

post #31 of 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

Sound is a wave through the air that reaches everyone the same.  Once it hits any part of the ear, including almost-microscopic hairs, it gets altered.  And since every single person on earth is different, then everyone does not literally hear the same thing.  I don't even care if you are identical twins with identical DNA.  Those people still don't have the exact same structure of their body on the atomic, molecular, or even cellular scale.


So what?

 

I have an astigmatism in my left eye. That means that a square in the real world will form a trapizoid on my retina (like everyone, it will be upside-down to boot).

 

Despite this, you and I do not disagree on what is a square and what is a trapizoid. "Square" is not a subjective thing.

 

Now you may like kettle drums more than trumpets because your HF hearing is going (you may prefer circles to squares), or because the gnomes living in your ear-hair tell you so... and that would be terribly important if we were discussing RnB vs Jazz; but it has little to do with speaker design, since the purpose of a speaker is to convert an electrical signal to an acoustic one.

 

If I applied your standard: then TVs with distorted signals could not be said to be "worse" than ones with accurate signals; and a monitor that drew a square as a circle would be equally valid with one that drew a square.

 

Still. Feel free to cover your TV screen in vasiline and move the hue-adjustment all the way to red if you want a "warmer image"... just don't tell me it's cause "everyone's eyes are different".

post #32 of 64

Umm how the F does acuity change in short periods of time like you state?  Any eye doctor I've ever been to just has a big device with a crapload of lenses it and you look at an eye chart through that.  Some crap people actually have to pay to go to school for is just ridiculous.  Contact lenses change every time you blink, but only because it's something on your eyeball that moves around.  You just crushed your own "DBT = awesome" theory by saying you forget how something sounds or looks purple 0.5 seconds later, which make such tests psychological and complete garbage.  The sorry was sarcastic.  People give human senses such a sad reputation by means of trying to quantize it with mathematics.  That is purely idiotic.

post #33 of 64

I never said DBT=awesome. I don't even want to address the rest of your post because apparently we've got a miscommunication issue. Quitting this thread.

post #34 of 64



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

People give human senses such a sad reputation by means of trying to quantize it with mathematics.  That is purely idiotic.


I think you mean quantify. Actually we have 100 years of psychophysics research which allows us to do really useful things as well as plotting human capabilties on an abstract level we can make desisions like not giving driving licenses to persons whose eyesight (even augmented) is too poor to allow them to drive without being a danger to themselves and others...
 

post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post

Umm how the F does acuity change in short periods of time like you state?  Any eye doctor I've ever been to just has a big device with a crapload of lenses it and you look at an eye chart through that.  Some crap people actually have to pay to go to school for is just ridiculous.  Contact lenses change every time you blink, but only because it's something on your eyeball that moves around.  You just crushed your own "DBT = awesome" theory by saying you forget how something sounds or looks purple 0.5 seconds later, which make such tests psychological and complete garbage.  The sorry was sarcastic.  People give human senses such a sad reputation by means of trying to quantize it with mathematics.  That is purely idiotic.


Yeah, science is for losers

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmvxAcT_Yc

 

(warning language NSFW)

post #36 of 64
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terriblepaulz View Post




Yeah, science is for losers

 

 

I think that sums up the problem.

 

Some People find it hard to accept that it is the many genres of science that enable them to live a human lifestyle .

 

Every other animal, other then human beings, live as they have lived for thousands of years .

 

Human beings live a scientifically based lifestyle .

 

We wake up in a bed designed using our understanding of physics .

 

We brush our teeth using toothpastes and other products that have been modified from nature using our understanding of chemistry .

 

We surf the Internet,watch TV,Listen to music with electronic device's that have all been manufactured and designed using  scientific knowledge .

 

Science is not just white coated scientists sitting in Labs coming up with weird theory's that do not relate to our life's.

 

Science & music/Rhythm is the driving force of human civilization .Without science we'd be the naked apes like our close cousins the chimpanzee .

 

-------

 

Not so long Ago the majority of people on this planet "knew" the world was flat .

 

A few scientists came along with calculations that showed the world was in fact a Globe or round .

 

These few original pioneers of truth were branded as Mad and locked up.

 

There are many Theory's in science,some may prove to be fact whilst others may be disproved .These theory's do not it anyway disprove the logic of science .
The theory's that do get proved will add to our scientific understanding .

 

Without science we would not have the ability to know any truth.

 

Science is our only chance of being winners ! .

 

Lets hope we listen to those whom say we are on the brink of environmental catastrophe.

 

-------

 

Here is just another example of how some people blindly refuse to accept scientific discovery .

 

Not so long ago a few men in different parts of the world came up with a theory  called evolution . They explained how life was not a fixed system as the creationist believed but more a system of change .The catalyst of this change was our natural environments and how some species mutated and/or adapted so as to survive and reproduce.

 

Not so many years later science discovered D.N.A and with it also proved that evolution was a fact .

 

We are closely related to Primates .

 

Even without science this is self evident simply by how we look and behave .

 

And yet many people would prefer a lobotomy from reality rather than accepting these ugly & beautiful facts of life .

post #37 of 64

Everything is the result of science....

 

I suppose it theoretically be possible to calculate why u like a certain genre of music, band, song, album, etc.

Just the quantity of the details being needed to get a 100% accurate conclusion/result are way too high.

 

As a result of that, we need to live in the believe that everybody hears differently, because it is impossible to analyse to 100%.

 

Everything u are is a result of your previous action, thinking, etc.

 

post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ib1dance View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terriblepaulz View Post




Yeah, science is for losers

 

 

I think that sums up the problem.

 

Some People find it hard to accept that it is the many genres of science that enable them to live a human lifestyle .

 

Every other animal, other then human beings, live as they have lived for thousands of years .

 

Human beings live a scientifically based lifestyle .

 

We wake up in a bed designed using our understanding of physics .

 

We brush our teeth using toothpastes and other products that have been modified from nature using our understanding of chemistry .

 

We surf the Internet,watch TV,Listen to music with electronic device's that have all been manufactured and designed using  scientific knowledge .

 

Science is not just white coated scientists sitting in Labs coming up with weird theory's that do not relate to our life's.

 

Science & music/Rhythm is the driving force of human civilization .Without science we'd be the naked apes like our close cousins the chimpanzee .

 

-------

 

Not so long Ago the majority of people on this planet "knew" the world was flat .

 

A few scientists came along with calculations that showed the world was in fact a Globe or round .

 

These few original pioneers of truth were branded as Mad and locked up.

 

There are many Theory's in science,some may prove to be fact whilst others may be disproved .These theory's do not it anyway disprove the logic of science .
The theory's that do get proved will add to our scientific understanding .

 

Without science we would not have the ability to know any truth.

 

Science is our only chance of being winners ! .

 

Lets hope we listen to those whom say we are on the brink of environmental catastrophe.

 

-------

 

Here is just another example of how some people blindly refuse to accept scientific discovery .

 

Not so long ago a few men in different parts of the world came up with a theory  called evolution . They explained how life was not a fixed system as the creationist believed but more a system of change .The catalyst of this change was our natural environments and how some species mutated and/or adapted so as to survive and reproduce.

 

Not so many years later science discovered D.N.A and with it also proved that evolution was a fact .

 

We are closely related to Primates .

 

Even without science this is self evident simply by how we look and behave .

 

And yet many people would prefer a lobotomy from reality rather than accepting these ugly & beautiful facts of life .


You should turn your sarcasm meter up a tad.

post #39 of 64
Thread Starter 


I apologise for my lack of sarcasm on this subject :-)

 

I should simply focus on the subject of sound being objective .

 


 


Edited by ib1dance - 1/22/11 at 4:00pm
post #40 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamthinker View Post

Everything is the result of science....

 

I suppose it theoretically be possible to calculate why u like a certain genre of music, band, song, album, etc.

Just the quantity of the details being needed to get a 100% accurate conclusion/result are way too high.

 

As a result of that, we need to live in the believe that everybody hears differently, because it is impossible to analyse to 100%.

 

Everything u are is a result of your previous action, thinking, etc.

 



Science is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically.Thus science is  adequate at measuring and calculating the system of existence.

 

This system is founded on reoccuring pattens of mass/matter .

 

A few examples of "timed mass" are the earth's Orbit of the sun  every 365.256363 mean solar days and planet earth's rotation every 24 hours .

 

Every part of existence can be seen to have these attributes - Mass & timing .

 

This all Equates to Rhythm .

 

------------------------------------------

 

Here is another angle of sound being objective though music can be subjective .

 

Lets take for example a Electronic music producer . A well studied electronic music producer will know how there sound is produced .From the very sounds source ,the oscillators ,to all the varying processors that  shape these fundamental frequency's to sound more musical .

 

So if someone understands what sound is surely then they are hearing far less subjectively and more objectively .

 

Or it could be argued that two people will hear the same  music track differently because of there objective reasoning .

 

But if one of these persons was to be a music producer whilst the other had no knowledge in how the sound was produced then surely the way the music producer heard the sound could be said to be more a true .

 

I.E - Two peoples Subjectivity can be decreased by them both understanding the same Truth .

 

Though also on the flip side two people subjectivity can be amplified by them both agreeing on there Subjective opinions .

 

post #41 of 64

Most people can't see there is science the religion and science the industry.  Science the industry is what enables us to have all these nice little luxuries.  Science didn't give us toothpaste.  We used to use butter and clay.  Now you can't even swallow a pea-sized glob of tooth paste because it is literally poison (fluoride is in water, too.)  Science the religion is responsible for stuff like the big bang, evolution, the world being flat or a sphere, etc...theories.  All this Nyquist crap saying an analog waveform can be perfectly copied from analog, to digital, back to analog is hooey.  That falls into science the religion, because it's a theory that happens on paper, not the real world.  Science the industry is what shows us that there are too many variables to actually perfectly compute something on paper and have it come out true in the real world.

post #42 of 64

lol

 

toothpaste = chemistry = science

 

big bang = physics = science

 

science and religion go hand in hand .....something turns from religion (believe) into science (proof).

science tries to find proof for belief.

post #43 of 64

Science and religion are polar opposites.  Science tries to make faith in something look illogical.  Some things it has proven, most things are far from being understood and never will.  Science will never explain how or why we are here.

post #44 of 64

religion is the source of science.

 

"Science will never explain how or why we are here."

 

Not now, but u can never know.

 

If u start talking about why we are here, u move in the field of philosophy.

 

post #45 of 64

Sound waves may be objectively measured and represented, but sound is what we (each of us individually) hear and therefore subjective. Therefore any description of sound is a description of what someone heard and therefore subjective. 

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