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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Updated: 5/23/2013. MrSpeakers Mad Dog v.3.2 Reviewed) - Page 548

post #8206 of 13778
10/11/12 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleAngel View Post

Which model X-Fi are you using?
If it has an optical output, you can connect the Fiio E17 with an optical cable, so you would be able to take advantage for the E17's WM8740 DAC chip
And still get CMSS-3D headphone surround sound thru the optical to the E17.
If your current X-Fi do not have optical out, you can get a refurb Creative Titanium (non-HD) for $44.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043

I have the X-Fi Titanium HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033
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post #8207 of 13778
10/11/12 at 9:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chroniX View Post

Thanks man, I'm really finding all this informing, I didn't know there was such thing as impedance swings and that the 595s can get that high in ohms. I sort of wish I posted this before I ordered the E9. If I were to have known that the E9 could make things worse instead of maybe just not making much difference, I might have gone with something else. Could have saved a bit just getting an E11 which would work fine with the Q701 and DT990 too I'm guessing? Would the E17 would have worked with my soundcard or no because it has its own DAC and is USB?

The Q701 is a very hard to drive headphone. You'd barely be tapping into it's potential with the E11.

The E11 would work best with the 32ohm DT990. It'd technically be at it's limit with the 250ohm. I get my 250ohm DT990 tomorrow, and will test it out with the E17 (which essentially has a similar internal amp as the E11, if just a smidge weaker). I'll let everyone know if they sound weak through the E17 compared to the 32ohm.

Oh here's a graph showing the 595 compared to the 880/32. As you can see, the 32ohm DT880 stays at 32ohm pretty much the entire range. The 595 however...look at that phase...and the impedance swing eek.gif Just remember, that phase is due to the output impedance mismatch.


Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/11/12 at 9:20am
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post #8208 of 13778
10/11/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


The 990s come in 3 different ohms.
32ohm (which would NOT be good for the E9 due to the high output impedance)
250ohm (more than enough damping factor... 25x the output impedance, well above the danger zone of less than 8x, and the E9 should have plenty of power for it.)
600ohm (this has the lowest noise and distortion, but wouldn't be driven to it's best ability by the E9. It sounds good, but it was missing a little in dynamics and body. The 32ohm just off the E17 sounds fuller than the 600ohm 990 off the E9)
The 250ohm 990s would suit the E9 best.
Basically, if you use a headphone with an amp that has less than 1/8th the impedance, they should look like the HE400's graph, where the amp won't alter the sound signature in a bad way. The problem is, most companies don't state what the output impednace is on their amps, and people buy them for regular, low ohm headphones, not realizing that it's not helping their headphones at all. Yes, giving it more power, but not in a good way.
The E9 should be bought only for those with headphones in the 80-300ohm range for best synergy. 600ohm will do well too, but it doesn't take voltage swings into account. The Sennheiser 595 actually has impedance swings that shoot the impedance to around 225ohm in certain frequencies. That's a HUGE jump. That's why 600ohm headphones aren't ideal for the E9. Those headphones can shoot up past 600ohm making the E9 struggle with dynamics.
I believe the HD800 is notorious for having massive impedance swings, which is why people recommend some incredibly powerful amps for them.

Would the O2 amp drive the 600ohm well? Or should I look for something else (non-tube possibly)? I might get rid of my E9-7 once I have more money and buy something better...I just don't want to separate myself from my 990s. I love 'em too much.


Edited by Naingolann - 10/11/12 at 9:32am
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post #8209 of 13778
10/11/12 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 
The O2 is just slightly stronger than the E9 at 600ohm. I'd get something else, as I don't think the O2 would be an improvement of the E9 for the 990. The O2 is also very neutral, which may highlight the DT990 treble more, which it definitely doesn't need. I think the Asgard or MStage would suit your 990 more. I hear they're both ever so slightly smooth.

As for the Beyers, I don't think they have large impedance swings, so the 600ohm Beyers should stay roughly at 600ohm all throughout (which I still feel is a bit too much for the E9 to drive to it's very best ability, unlike the Senns which peak a bit (seen the 595,650,800 graphs, and they all have a huge peak at 100hz).
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/11/12 at 9:40am
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post #8210 of 13778
10/11/12 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chroniX View Post

I have the X-Fi Titanium HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033

So you really do not need to add an external DAC to the Titanium HD, just get any external headphone amplifier you like.

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post #8211 of 13778
10/11/12 at 11:33am
Hey mad, how did/do you have your song of the day (in your signature) setup? I imagine you don't change your profile by hand every day, though seeing how often you change your profile picture I wouldn't be too surprised if you do wink.gif
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post #8212 of 13778
10/11/12 at 12:12pm



I will be plugging the cable into the two RCA connectors from my titanium hd soundcard and the 3.5mm side into the line in on the E9, is that correct?

So Titanium HD >> RCA OUT >> 3.5mm Line in >> E9 >> HD595

Also what is Pre_Output and Line Out for? Could I hook my speakers up to this amp as well (I'm using PC speakers with a 3.5mm jack)?

And I'm guessing I shouldn't use the Gain switch for my HD595 right?
Edited by chroniX - 10/11/12 at 12:16pm
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post #8213 of 13778
10/11/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chroniX View Post

I will be plugging the cable into the two RCA connectors from my Titanium HD sound card and the 3.5mm side into the line in on the E9, is that correct?
So Titanium HD >> RCA OUT >> 3.5mm Line in >> E9 >> HD595

Correct, TiHD RCAs to the 3.5mm line-in on the E09.

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post #8214 of 13778
10/11/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

The O2 is just slightly stronger than the E9 at 600ohm. I'd get something else, as I don't think the O2 would be an improvement of the E9 for the 990. The O2 is also very neutral, which may highlight the DT990 treble more, which it definitely doesn't need. I think the Asgard or MStage would suit your 990 more. I hear they're both ever so slightly smooth.
As for the Beyers, I don't think they have large impedance swings, so the 600ohm Beyers should stay roughly at 600ohm all throughout (which I still feel is a bit too much for the E9 to drive to it's very best ability, unlike the Senns which peak a bit (seen the 595,650,800 graphs, and they all have a huge peak at 100hz).


Thanks, I got worried at first. But anyway, I'll give a look at those two amps you suggested.

 

*edit*

Ugh...no way to use the DSS with either. :|


Edited by Naingolann - 10/11/12 at 1:31pm
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post #8215 of 13778
10/11/12 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naingolann View Post


Thanks, I got worried at first. But anyway, I'll give a look at those two amps you suggested.

*edit*
Ugh...no way to use the DSS with either. :|

Ummm... am i missing something? Wouldn't you just use a 3.5mm minijack from the DSS to RCA to connect to either the M-Stage or Asgard? or am I mistaken?
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post #8216 of 13778
10/11/12 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chroniX View Post

I will be plugging the cable into the two RCA connectors from my titanium hd soundcard and the 3.5mm side into the line in on the E9, is that correct?
So Titanium HD >> RCA OUT >> 3.5mm Line in >> E9 >> HD595
Also what is Pre_Output and Line Out for? Could I hook my speakers up to this amp as well (I'm using PC speakers with a 3.5mm jack)?
And I'm guessing I shouldn't use the Gain switch for my HD595 right?

 

Is there a reason you use the RCA out rather than the 3.5 jack out from the Titanium HD? Just curious :)

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post #8217 of 13778
10/11/12 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjonir View Post

Is there a reason you use the RCA out rather than the 3.5 jack out from the Titanium HD? Just curious smily_headphones1.gif

I can't remember the reason but I was told the RCA out provides better quality. I think it uses a better OPAMP or something and higher decibel level. And unless I'm mistaken, using the headphone output with the amp could introduce noise since it would be amplifying an already amped signal. Not 100% positive though.
Edited by chroniX - 10/11/12 at 3:36pm
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post #8218 of 13778
10/11/12 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chroniX View Post

I can't remember the reason but I was told the RCA out provides better quality. I think it uses a better OPAMP or something and higher decibel level. And unless I'm mistaken, using the headphone output with the amp could introduce noise since it would be amplifying an already amped signal. Not 100% positive though.

RCA's in general have less crosstalk, because they are physically separated. There may be something else to it; I don't know if the Ti HD specifically put extra cost into separate components for the RCA outputs (doubt they'd spend any budget besides on a resistor or something), but I don't think it's going to make much of a difference.

Edit: oh wait, I think I remember now: the RCA jacks are a line-out connection, so you don't have amp coloration and a raw analogue signal to pipe into an external amp for gain and attenuation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naingolann View Post


Thanks, I got worried at first. But anyway, I'll give a look at those two amps you suggested.

*edit*
Ugh...no way to use the DSS with either. :|

Uh, yeah, connection would be like just the opposite, connect the headphone out to the RCA jacks. You ought to leave the DSS at 70-80% volume for best results, or whatever is the best balance between a strong Signal:Noise ratio and not too high that the DSS starts clipping, and use the amp (such as Asgard, M-Stage, O2, Et al) to set the volume at a listenable level.
Edited by Evshrug - 10/11/12 at 4:58pm
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post #8219 of 13778
10/11/12 at 4:56pm

Yes, but is the crosstalk argument still valid if you end up with a 3.5 jack anyway?

 

chroniX: Why do you say the jack out is more amped than RCA? Since the voltage on the RCA seems to be higher (2V vs 1V I think), I'd say it's the RCA that's more amped?

 

I'd be interested if anyone knows if there are valid differences between the two outputs on that card. I had already googled it but found nothig.

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post #8220 of 13778
10/11/12 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjonir View Post

Yes, but is the crosstalk argument still valid if you end up with a 3.5 jack anyway?

chroniX: Why do you say the jack out is more amped than RCA? Since the voltage on the RCA seems to be higher (2V vs 1V I think), I'd say it's the RCA that's more amped?

I'd be interested if anyone knows if there are valid differences between the two outputs on that card. I had already googled it but found nothing.

You're right, the crosstalk becomes moot when you adapt it back to 3.5mm (or 6.3mm) jack, but that was the point I was making anyway, that there wouldn't be significant difference. That is, until I remembered that RCA jacks are usually used as line-outs or pre-outs. Not ALWAYS the case, but it might be in this one... Way to know (if it's not documented) would be to hook up something and see if you can turn down the analog volume, without first limiting the gain digitally. Not sure how to type that more clearly... Hope you get what I'm referring to! LOL! (If you did, you probably already know what a line-out does and I'm being useless).
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