Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Updated: 5/17/13. Skullcandy PLYR 1 added) - Page 645

I'm still trying to figure this out. Most console games nowadays don't even use the type of compression that would merit using HDMI and decoders for loss-less audio since the said audio wasn't designed to be listened as such.

I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.

It's true that everyone perceives sound the same way because we all have different ears so what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. I've looked into myears and that seems like a great idea but as far as I know, it is still not supported on PS3. I'm still thinking about the possibility of a mixamp and maybe hooking it up to receiver through optical and PS3/Wii U to receiver through HDMI. But I don't think (or know whether) I would hear any difference in sound quality If I plug my headphones into the mixamp itself since the optical cable only has 2.1 channels apparently (correct me if I'm wrong). Then again I could plug them to my receiver and maybe buy a mic or a splitter if I'm using a headset and plug that into the mixamp for controlling in-game audio/voice chat volume, although again, I don't know if that is even possible.

Then again there is the steelseries audio mixer that plugs to a USB slot to the PS3 and to an audio source (Receiver) so that might be another viable solution. If steelseries ever decides to sell it again in North America...

Can anybody help a guy out? I have at best rudimentary knowledge of sound in game (or general) audio. Again, I want the best possible solution for something that at least resembles 3D audio for something that won't cost me $3k+, or 1k for that matter. Maybe ~$500 not counting the headphones. 

That is like 90% of the reason I wanted the DT 770's. According to Mad Lust Envy, they are the very best in terms of distance and positioning.

I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.

It's true that everyone perceives sound the same way because we all have different ears so what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. I've looked into myears and that seems like a great idea but as far as I know, it is still not supported on PS3. I'm still thinking about the possibility of a mixamp and maybe hooking it up to receiver through optical and PS3/Wii U to receiver through HDMI. But I don't think (or know whether) I would hear any difference in sound quality If I plug my headphones into the mixamp itself since the optical cable only has 2.1 channels apparently (correct me if I'm wrong). Then again I could plug them to my receiver and maybe buy a mic or a splitter if I'm using a headset and plug that into the mixamp for controlling in-game audio/voice chat volume, although again, I don't know if that is even possible.

Then again there is the steelseries audio mixer that plugs to a USB slot to the PS3 and to an audio source (Receiver) so that might be another viable solution. If steelseries ever decides to sell it again in North America...

Can anybody help a guy out? I have at best rudimentary knowledge of sound in game (or general) audio. Again, I want the best possible solution for something that at least resembles 3D audio for something that won't cost me $3k+, or 1k for that matter. Maybe ~$500 not counting the headphones. 

That is like 90% of the reason I wanted the DT 770's. According to Mad Lust Envy, they are the very best in terms of distance and positioning.

I was thinking of purchasing a Yamaha Aventage. Perhaps this one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A700-7-1-Channel-Receiver-VERSION/dp/B003XDU49S/ref=sr_1_9?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1355336965&sr=1-9&keywords=yamaha+aventage Or maybe a newer model if I can find it for a decent price in craiglists, amazon, etc. This one should be able to decode compressed audio through DTS, correct?

If I'm understanding correctly. The optical/coaxial cables can pass through 6 channels of compressed audio at 24-bit/48 khz. If I so choose I could use a receiver to decode that audio and plug my headphones directly  to the receiver for uncompressed 6 channel (5.1) sound at 24-bit/192khz.

At any rate, if I buy a Yamaha like the one above I shouldn't have any issues as far as decoding audio of uncompressed enjoyment.

If I use the 80 ohm DT 770 pro on a Yamaha which has 80-Ohm that should drive the headphone well given that "as a rule of thumb, a damping factor of 10 or more is desirable for the source to be able to drive the load with authority."

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones-page-2

Nevertheless that still does not solve the issue of sound mixing. Hopefully steelseries will produce their crossplatform audio mixers again. I'd like to test that out.

How do you use myears with an external input? Plz elaborate, I would def. like to try this.

-Erik

The Yamaha RX-A700 was the model that was at the top of my list for a receiver to buy last year. It is about as low cost as you can get for a Yamaha A/V receiver that comes with better built in speaker amplifiers.

When you send 6-channels of compressed (DDL or DTS-Connect) 24-bit/48Khz audio thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), it uncompresses to 24-bit/48khz PCM uncompressed audio.

This is why I like to push HDMI.

All modem A/V receivers come with both Dolby & DTS audio support.

I just plugged my DT770 Pro 80-Ohm headphones into my Yamaha RX-671 A/V receiver, sounded fine.

First off, you're just not going to get proper 3D audio out of a console, or even most of today's PC games (which are incidentally console ports). That was lost a long time ago due to industry ignorance. Virtual 7.1 can go a long way, though; Dolby Headphone is quite effective at that.

Second, due to the lack of personalized HRTF options beyond a few PC applications that are of no use on consoles (unless capture cards with HDMI can record all 8 channels of LPCM over the HDMI port) and the $3,000+ Smyth Realiser, you might as well just get an AVR with Dolby Headphone and call it a day. $500 can certainly get you a nice Harmon Kardon AVR 354 second-hand on eBay, and likely with some funds left over that can go toward your headphones.

Third, if you wanted the very best in distance and positioning, it's hard to say that the DT770 is the "very best" when not even considering the Sennheiser HD800 and most Stax models (which tend to be aural wallhack monsters when used with virtual surround). But would you really pay anywhere from $400 to $1,500 to $5,000+ just for that competitive advantage? You're already passing the law of diminishing returns at $200.

Also keep in mind that while the headphones do play a role in bringing out those positional cues, most of it is going to be coming from the surround processing itself.

I was thinking of purchasing a Yamaha Aventage. Perhaps this one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A700-7-1-Channel-Receiver-VERSION/dp/B003XDU49S/ref=sr_1_9?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1355336965&sr=1-9&keywords=yamaha+aventage Or maybe a newer model if I can find it for a decent price in craiglists, amazon, etc. This one should be able to decode compressed audio through DTS, correct?

If I'm understanding correctly. The optical/coaxial cables can pass through 6 channels of compressed audio at 24-bit/48 khz. If I so choose I could use a receiver to decode that audio and plug my headphones directly  to the receiver for uncompressed 6 channel (5.1) sound at 24-bit/192khz.

At any rate, if I buy a Yamaha like the one above I shouldn't have any issues as far as decoding audio of uncompressed enjoyment.

If I use the 80 ohm DT 770 pro on a Yamaha which has 8ohm that should drive the headphone well given that "as a rule of thumb, a damping factor of 10 or more is desirable for the source to be able to drive the load with authority."

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones-page-2

Nevertheless that still does not solve the issue of sound mixing. Hopefully steelseries will produce their crossplatform audio mixers again. I'd like to test that out.

As far as i know, the PS3 audio system is DTS and some limited Dolby support, Mix-amps are Dolby, not sure if they come with any DTS support.

DTS seems to be popular for Blu-ray audio audio tracks on Blu-ray disks

S/PDIF (Optical & coaxial) is 2-channels of PCM (uncompressed) digital audio or up to 6-channels (5.1) of compressed digital audio.

Compressed digital audio is 24-Bit/48Khz, uncompressed is 24-Bit/192Khz.

I think Blu-ray disk audio can take advantage of higher then 48Khz audio.

For compression of audio files, Dolby uses DDL (Dolby Digital Live) and DTS uses DTS connect, and as far as I know one will not work with the other.

So if DTS-Connect is used for compression, then you need DTS-Connect at the other end for uncompression.

Receivers usually come with Dolby and DTS audio features and using HDMI means you do not have to use any compression.

And with the receivers you can have your TV, PS3, Wii U audio all controlled thru one receiver.

Receiver have more juice for driving headphones (50-Ohm to 600-Ohm), then the mix-amp (barely drives 250-Ohm).

My Yamaha receiver works fine with my Beyerdynamic 250-Ohm and 600-Ohm headphones.

Really low Ohm headphones, like under 50-Ohm, do not work very well with receivers in general, Impedance issues.

I'm still trying to figure this out. Most console games nowadays don't even use the type of compression that would merit using HDMI and decoders for loss-less audio since the said audio wasn't designed to be listened as such.

I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.

It's true that everyone perceives sound the same way because we all have different ears so what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. I've looked into myears and that seems like a great idea but as far as I know, it is still not supported on PS3. I'm still thinking about the possibility of a mixamp and maybe hooking it up to receiver through optical and PS3/Wii U to receiver through HDMI. But I don't think (or know whether) I would hear any difference in sound quality If I plug my headphones into the mixamp itself since the optical cable only has 2.1 channels apparently (correct me if I'm wrong). Then again I could plug them to my receiver and maybe buy a mic or a splitter if I'm using a headset and plug that into the mixamp for controlling in-game audio/voice chat volume, although again, I don't know if that is even possible.

Then again there is the steelseries audio mixer that plugs to a USB slot to the PS3 and to an audio source (Receiver) so that might be another viable solution. If steelseries ever decides to sell it again in North America...

Can anybody help a guy out? I have at best rudimentary knowledge of sound in game (or general) audio. Again, I want the best possible solution for something that at least resembles 3D audio for something that won't cost me $3k+, or 1k for that matter. Maybe ~$500 not counting the headphones. 

That is like 90% of the reason I wanted the DT 770's. According to Mad Lust Envy, they are the very best in terms of distance and positioning.

First off, you're just not going to get proper 3D audio out of a console, or even most of today's PC games (which are incidentally console ports). That was lost a long time ago due to industry ignorance. Virtual 7.1 can go a long way, though; Dolby Headphone is quite effective at that.

Second, due to the lack of personalized HRTF options beyond a few PC applications that are of no use on consoles (unless capture cards with HDMI can record all 8 channels of LPCM over the HDMI port) and the $3,000+ Smyth Realiser, you might as well just get an AVR with Dolby Headphone and call it a day. $500 can certainly get you a nice Harmon Kardon AVR 354 second-hand on eBay, and likely with some funds left over that can go toward your headphones.

Third, if you wanted the very best in distance and positioning, it's hard to say that the DT770 is the "very best" when not even considering the Sennheiser HD800 and most Stax models (which tend to be aural wallhack monsters when used with virtual surround). But would you really pay anywhere from $400 to $1,500 to $5,000+ just for that competitive advantage? You're already passing the law of diminishing returns at $200.

Also keep in mind that while the headphones do play a role in bringing out those positional cues, most of it is going to be coming from the surround processing itself.

Well, then this answers my previous question. I wonder if the compression/uncompression affects the audio at all. In the end, to acheive that PCM in mulit-surround, one still needs a receiver right? Or does the Mixamp uncompress DD 5.1 to 5.1 PCM?

Interesting to know that PS3 is DTS. I wonder if the Yammy receiver does something to help to take advantage of the greater than 48khz.

Yes, optical only carries 2.1 channels of PCM or 5.1 of DTS or DD. Idk, you confused me, lol. Yup, they will. I told you Jan. Remember though, the Yammy receiver has Adaptive DSP and DRC, which will really help "livemixing" with just the receiver itself. We're in the same boat :P

I only know of one way. Get a ASUS HDAV1.3 Deluxe. Setup MyEars using that card on your computer. Run the PS3 to the Deluxe's input, then out to your receiver or TV. If TV, plug headphones into Deluxe. If Receiver, you can do either. Props to you if you do :)

Ya, I just started looking at that (and other sound cards that support spdif in) today...

-Erik

I don't want to spend over 1k over a pair of headphones. Do you recommend any in particular to use? (In addition of a AVR of course). And why would I pick a Harmon Kardon AVR as opposed to something like Yamaha with Silent Cinema?

I believe the Astro Mix-Amp can uncompress 5.1 DDL to PCM 5.1

Modern A/V receiver (like Yamaha) can process 24-bit/192Khz, but I think only Blu-ray audio tracks would would really take advantage of audio above 48Khz.

Technically S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) can only carry 2.0-channels of PCM (uncompressed) audio, technically 2.1 is 3-channels of audio.

Usually something like a receiver takes in the 2.0-channel and splits off the lower part of the signal for the sub-woofer.