Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Video Games Discussion › Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 7/9/2014: Ultrasone HFI-15G Added)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 7/9/2014: Ultrasone HFI-15G Added) - Page 514

post #7696 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi HM View Post

This price is the product + shipping to Brazil final price. The prices i put are from Ebay, the best from sellers who ships to Brazil. About DSS i don't care if is new or used, but it's hard to find these things on Ebay.

I think that the use will be 75% for movies and 25% for games, and at first post the OP have a good impression for it, i don't know if have best headphones in this price range for general use...

I have a X-Fi XtremeGamer on my Desktop, but i bought last year just to use DTS Connect to play/view 5.1 movies on my HT, because it has only 1 Toslink input. Now my desktop is a HTPC, i don't use it more (audio goes trought Nvidia GT520 HDMI). 

Sorry for bad english in any post, it's not my native language. The question is that i have a notebook with P2 and HDMI output, so if i want to output any 5.1 sound, or i will have to buy a X-Fi USB card that makes a Dolby Live, or output from HDMI.

I want the headset + amp (DSS, ax720, etc) to see movies on my notebook with Dolby Headphone audio, and to play Wii (RCA audio, easy to convert to P2) and Xbox (optical), so this DSS will take the Pro Logic II from Wii and Dolby Digital from Xbox and output to Dolby Headphone fines. And from notebook, i will need to use Media Player Classic to output the audio on Dolby Headphone, and with the DSS take the DH audio from P2 and output it on my Headphone? Or i just plug the headphone direct on notebook?

Dolby Headphone by DSS is the same DH from software? (Foobar, MPC)?

About DSS, i took a read on DSS manual, it says that it can take audio from USB, but only stereo.

Sorry for a lot of text and questions, and any question about "language barrier making not know what i'm saying", fell free to ask and i will try my best to write again, being "clear".

Once again, thanks a lot for attention.

If you think you write a lot of text, you should see some of my posts wink.gif

So you want to get virtual surround with a desktop HTPC, laptop, Wii, and Xbox (360 with HDMI?). The computers both have HDMI (which I assume is connected directly to a Tv?), but the laptop has P2 (dunno what this is, someone else probably does) and the desktop HTPC has a toslink/optical in (no toslink/optical out?). Does your TV have an optical out? Most modern HDTVs do, and that could of course connect to the DSS. Oh, and the DSS implementation of DH is like DH mode 2 on Foobar.

When you're on your laptop... Well, I guess the stereo out could be up sampled by the DSS to Dolby Pro Logic II simulated surround and then turned into Dolby Headphone, but you'll lose a lot of positional cues. You might do well to find a DH plug-in for Media Player Classic, or find the Foobar program and get the DH plug-in for that, so you'll have good DH when watching movies with surround. The only thing is gaming on your laptop... If the game doesn't have a Headphone mode built in, then DPLII-->DH may be the best you can do with a DSS.

Your desktop HTPC with X-Fi XTremeGamer should still function even if you are using the graphics card for video out. So you should look into that.

Wii would have to be DPLII-->DH, using whatever method of connection to the Wii's stereo sound you can manage.

Xbox optical will be easy to get surround sound with DSS, also works pretty well for DVD movies and Netflix too, in my opinion.

Another option IMO you could consider that would do virtual surround for headphones, if you can find a good price, would be Creative's Recon3D USB sound processor. It's what I use... Mad Lust Envy (the OP) prefers his Mixamp, I prefer the Recon3D to listening to a DSS I heard at my local electronics stores. It's priced between the DSS and the Mixamp, but the benefit is it can act as an external soundcard through it's USB DAC, Optical Input, and 3.5mm Headphone Input (you can get an RCA to 3.5mm cable for your Wii). So you could just run everything through it. Just an idea, good luck!
post #7697 of 26135

Applying Dolby Pro Logic II to a stereo signal couldn't possibly end well. The signal needs to have the surround channels matrixed in for DPL2 decoding to be of any benefit, and that's what GCN, Wii, and some PS2 games do.

 

If he wants Dolby Headphone out of a PC, get a Xonar U3. It's a little USB thumb stick audio device that's getting pretty good reviews for a $40 device. I may get one to review eventually.

 

Oh, and if anyone wants a Recon3D USB, mine should be coming back tomorrow, at which point it's going up for sale. Anyone still interested?

post #7698 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

If he wants Dolby Headphone out of a PC, get a Xonar U3. It's a little USB thumb stick audio device that's getting pretty good reviews for a $40 device. I may get one to review eventually.

 

Nice, I like that little thing.

post #7699 of 26135
Thread Starter 
That looks like a pretty neat device, I must say. Seems to be the cheapest way to get DH on any computer, including laptops.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 9/24/12 at 11:41pm
post #7700 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


If you think you write a lot of text, you should see some of my posts wink.gif
So you want to get virtual surround with a desktop HTPC, laptop, Wii, and Xbox (360 with HDMI?). The computers both have HDMI (which I assume is connected directly to a Tv?), but the laptop has P2 (dunno what this is, someone else probably does) and the desktop HTPC has a toslink/optical in (no toslink/optical out?). Does your TV have an optical out? Most modern HDTVs do, and that could of course connect to the DSS. Oh, and the DSS implementation of DH is like DH mode 2 on Foobar.
When you're on your laptop... Well, I guess the stereo out could be up sampled by the DSS to Dolby Pro Logic II simulated surround and then turned into Dolby Headphone, but you'll lose a lot of positional cues. You might do well to find a DH plug-in for Media Player Classic, or find the Foobar program and get the DH plug-in for that, so you'll have good DH when watching movies with surround. The only thing is gaming on your laptop... If the game doesn't have a Headphone mode built in, then DPLII-->DH may be the best you can do with a DSS.
Your desktop HTPC with X-Fi XTremeGamer should still function even if you are using the graphics card for video out. So you should look into that.
Wii would have to be DPLII-->DH, using whatever method of connection to the Wii's stereo sound you can manage.
Xbox optical will be easy to get surround sound with DSS, also works pretty well for DVD movies and Netflix too, in my opinion.
Another option IMO you could consider that would do virtual surround for headphones, if you can find a good price, would be Creative's Recon3D USB sound processor. It's what I use... Mad Lust Envy (the OP) prefers his Mixamp, I prefer the Recon3D to listening to a DSS I heard at my local electronics stores. It's priced between the DSS and the Mixamp, but the benefit is it can act as an external soundcard through it's USB DAC, Optical Input, and 3.5mm Headphone Input (you can get an RCA to 3.5mm cable for your Wii). So you could just run everything through it. Just an idea, good luck!

 

Sorry, here in Brazil we can this as P2 (3.5mm jack), the "default" headphone port on motherboards, smartphones:
 
 
My HTPC is connected to TV by an 1.4 HDMI cable (3D). I have a Toslink out by the X-Fi Xtremegamer, with DD Live/DTS Connect plugin. About working with videocard, it works, but i can't plug the X-Fi on my GT520 to pass audio. If i want to play a game in 5.1 mode, i will need to plug the X-Fi directly on my HT and activate DTS Connect. For what i read about some time ago, i can't "send the 5.1 PCM from a game/movie source to the X-Fi to make a DTS packet and after that, take back the DTS packet and send by my videocard's HDMI. Only can make a bitstream (i use XBMC for movies) for DTS and Dolby by my videocard to TV, and then send it to the HT.
 
Yes, my televison have optical out, who pass Dolby and DTS from HDMI to it (one of a few models here in Brazil who does it).
 
I will need to do a trick to use MPC on mey laptop's XBMC, to work with Dolby Headphone. So to see (and listen) surround source on my laptop, i will just need to plug the headphone direct to the "p2" plug? I wouldn't need to use DSS in this case?
 
Wii use a 5-way cable like this (here in Brazil we call it component cable, with RCA jack):
 
 
So in the DSS case, i wouldn't need anything more, because any television have an "p2" output.
 
Xbox works fine to, toslink -> toslink and OK.
 
Recon3D i find for $145 (w/ shipping), i think that it's not good idea in this case :/
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Applying Dolby Pro Logic II to a stereo signal couldn't possibly end well. The signal needs to have the surround channels matrixed in for DPL2 decoding to be of any benefit, and that's what GCN, Wii, and some PS2 games do.

 

If he wants Dolby Headphone out of a PC, get a Xonar U3. It's a little USB thumb stick audio device that's getting pretty good reviews for a $40 device. I may get one to review eventually.

 

Oh, and if anyone wants a Recon3D USB, mine should be coming back tomorrow, at which point it's going up for sale. Anyone still interested?

 

The Recon3D does make a Dolby Headphone from USB and Toslink? I find about "THX and Dolby Digital", but didn't find anything directly related to Headphone. This tecnology have other name? It does make "DD Live" from USB?

If yes, i think that this Recon3D resolves 100% of my problems. I can plug it into meu laptop and play any 5.1 game, can plug my Wii by 3.5mm jacket and use Dolby proLogic II, can plug my Xbox and use it Dolby Digital...

If you ship it to Brazil, maybe we can do business :) Working fine, with all items?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

 

Nice, I like that little thing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

That looks like a pretty neat device, I must say. Seems to be the cheapest way to get DH on any computer, including laptops.

 

But for $75 still is the cheapest way?


Edited by Itachi HM - 9/25/12 at 8:02am
post #7701 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

The E11 isn't enough to drive the 990 Pros. They'll get you a decent way there, but ultimately will still be starved for power. They deserve at least a desktop amp. The E9 or E09k are definitely enough, not the E11 which is at its limit with 250ohm with no headroom.
Its basic knowledge that 250ohm is made for home theater (receivers) and desktop amps.
People just assume because a headphone gets ear shatteringly loud off something means they're driven properly. That's false. The E5 can drive a 600ohm loudly.
The problem is voltage swings. At some points the impedance spikes to a lot more than the impedance of the headphone. I've seen swings from the HD800 jump up to almost 1000ohms.
With something like the E11, the DT990 Pros will spike up to past the E11's peak, and lose dynamics, etc. You usually want an amp with some headroom for this.
For the purpose of gaming though, the E11 will be decent. I personally would invest a little more to make sure my $200 headphones are performing up to spec at all times.
The reason I don't mind a lack of juice for the K701/Q701 when gaming, is because I'm fousing on the details with those cans, not fidelity. You don't need to fully drive them to make them gaming beasts.

So was i better off going with q701 then ? :/ seems like i would spent less for them. Im hoping they will sound good without me having to buy an extra amp. Maybe just being able to hook up the mixamp to my pc, which i dont do very often. I usually just have them hooked up directly to my desktop. my dt990 pros should be here in the mail today.

post #7702 of 26135
post #7703 of 26135
Keep in mind that sounding good, and sounding its best are two completely different things. The setups MLE recomends in terms of driving the headphones are in order to get the maximum performance out of the 'phones. It doesn't mean that it won't sound "good" without proper/ample amplification but rather there is room for improvement.

The E6 has even less power than the E11... For a budget setup i would reccomend an E9 or O2.

I recently A/B'd both the Q701 and the DT990pro off of the E11 and my HT Reciever. The differences were most noticiably felt in an increase/widening of the soundstage and a more filled out sound throughout the whole band. Again this isn't a case of bad/good, but good/better.
Edited by ruuku - 9/25/12 at 12:59pm
post #7704 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi HM View Post

The Recon3D does make a Dolby Headphone from USB and Toslink? I find about "THX and Dolby Digital", but didn't find anything directly related to Headphone. This tecnology have other name? It does make "DD Live" from USB?

If yes, i think that this Recon3D resolves 100% of my problems. I can plug it into meu laptop and play any 5.1 game, can plug my Wii by 3.5mm jacket and use Dolby proLogic II, can plug my Xbox and use it Dolby Digital...

If you ship it to Brazil, maybe we can do business :) Working fine, with all items?

 

Well, it's not Dolby Headphone, but their own "THX TruStudio Surround" processing. The effect works reasonably well, if not completely flawlessly.

 

For the Wii, you'll need something with a proper analog input (the analog aux-in is just for PC recording as far as I can tell) that can decode Dolby Pro Logic II. But it should work reasonably well for PC and Xbox, so no worries there.

 

I'd be willing to ship to Brazil, but you'll have to pay the shipping costs. We'll discuss it further when the UPS truck actually gets here and returns it...it's unusually late today. They generally deliver well before 4:00pm.

post #7705 of 26135

Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread. 

post #7706 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Just in case people would think of using the E10 with the Mixamp: The Fiio E10 is a USB dac/amp ONLY. It will not work without the USB connecting directly to the device you're using them on. That means it's to be mainly used for computers, and won't work with the Mixamp/etc..
The CAL and DT770 Pro 80 are similar for me, with the biggest difference being the DT770 has a harsher treble, and the CAL is warmer. The CAL has less bass bloat (but still quite bassy), is easier to drive (no amp needed). The 770 pro 80 needs an amp, has bigger soundstage, and better positioning (though for the purpose of fun gaming, the CALs are excellent at positioning anyways).
The DT770 Pro 80 with something like the E11 would put it over the top vs the CAL. Without an amp, the CAL is better, less muddy, and cheaper.
Comfort-wise, I find them both to be amazingly comfy, though the 770 pros get the extra point for velour pads.
The 990 Pro smokes the crap out of both, but they're open (which by the fact that you own the HD598, shouldn't be an issue), and they REQUIRE a desktop amp.
If you can spring for the 990 pros and a desktop amp like the E9/E09K, that is the BEST I've heard for fun gaming in that price range.

Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread and the double post. 

post #7707 of 26135
Regarding the Xonar U3:

It looks cool, and it seems to go on sale sometimes. A good cheap device for getting Dolby Headphone out of a computer. But the designer of the Objective 2 amp tested out the U3 and posted his results on his blog, apparently he found it to perform similarly to a couple other C-media devices. The main reason I didn't suggest the U3 was that it is USB only, so he could only use it with his computer. Assuming he doesn't pipe in the audio from his consoles to the PC...
Also, if he just watches movies on PC, getting a Dolby Headphone software plug-in may be the most frugal way to get surround.

Regarding the Recon3D:

Instead of Dolby Headphone, the Recon3D uses THX Pro Surround to make headphone surround from Dolby or PCM 5.1 channel audio. A few pages back, I wrote a detailed report on testing how to get the best sound out of the Recon3D; it's not an "audiophile" device, but I think it does a good job and can sound better than stock with just a few adjustments. I like the input versatility (USB, Optical, and 3.5mm (P2)), the tweaks you can make to THX mode (mostly like the bass adjust and ClearVoice), and I think that offloading the audio processing has increased my PC game performance a small bit. Anyway I have no worries using the full audio quality settings, even on CPU intensive games like the RTS genre. The only thing is, DTS will still only be available through your X-Fi card.

Illbleed,
Lol don't feel bad about your Beyerdynamics! Those are also very well regarded headphones, and they will reward you with better dynamics once you have the savings for a nice amp. Don't you like them pretty well as-is? I'm currently looking into low-cost but good value amps for my Q701, which have only 50 Ohms but have their own challenges for amping. If you don't want to wait, you can't go wrong with a FiiO E9 desktop amp. The FiiO E6 is a step down from the FiiO E11... It's not going to be what you're looking for.
I'm looking for evaluations and reviews on lesser-known amps such as fred_fred2004's tube hybrid, the Little Dot I+, and lastly the Indeed G2 hybrid amp. Of course, the Objective2 solid-state headphone amp will also provide everything you need pretty reliably, and is sold assembled-and-ready by JDS labs in America.
Edited by Evshrug - 9/25/12 at 1:54pm
post #7708 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkkmjmj View Post

Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread and the double post. 

What optical source(s) are you plugging the Astro Mix-Amp. into?

Does this source have DDL (Dolby Digital Live)?

You can use a 3.5mm (1/8, mini-jack) male to 3.5mm male cable to connect the Astro Mix-Amp. headphone output to the line in on the Fiio E11.

Use your ears to judge if it improves the audio.

post #7709 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Well, it's not Dolby Headphone, but their own "THX TruStudio Surround" processing. The effect works reasonably well, if not completely flawlessly.

For the Wii, you'll need something with a proper analog input (the analog aux-in is just for PC recording as far as I can tell) that can decode Dolby Pro Logic II. But it should work reasonably well for PC and Xbox, so no worries there.

I'd be willing to ship to Brazil, but you'll have to pay the shipping costs. We'll discuss it further when the UPS truck actually gets here and returns it...it's unusually late today. They generally deliver well before 4:00pm.

Besides the mic-in jack, doesn't the optical-in jack double as 3.5mm in? Thats what I was thinking he could use... of course, if the Wii and Xbox are hooked up to the TV, My thinking is that he could just run the optical-out from his Tv to the Recon3D and have a simple setup smily_headphones1.gif
I'm away from my thingie right now.
post #7710 of 26135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post
Besides the mic-in jack, doesn't the optical-in jack double as 3.5mm in? Thats what I was thinking he could use... of course, if the Wii and Xbox are hooked up to the TV, My thinking is that he could just run the optical-out from his Tv to the Recon3D and have a simple setup smily_headphones1.gif
I'm away from my thingie right now.

 

What I'm saying is that the 3.5mm aux-in on that jack doesn't work that way, at least not in my brief testing. Creative didn't design it with the Wii in mind.

 

The safe bet for the Wii is to get an Ear Force DSS or SU-DH1, but both are discontinued and don't provide any PC support.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Games Discussion
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Video Games Discussion › Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 7/9/2014: Ultrasone HFI-15G Added)