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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 7/9/2014: Ultrasone HFI-15G Added) - Page 1524

post #22846 of 26237

Watch dogs looks like it has good sound..i have pre ordered it!

post #22847 of 26237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I didn't get a chance to play TLOU really, so I'm going off the Uncharted series which didn't have the best surround emulation.

And why not a Full HD Collection? It's not like you have to buy it. Also, there are many new PS4 owners who didn't own a PS3, and missed out on an amazing series. Uncharted 2 was arguably the best last gen game prior to TLOU.

I wouldn't mind going through those games at 1080p (and hopefully) 60fps. With the collection, they could add the Vita Uncharted game, which I KNOW most console gamers missed.


I don;t understand all the hate for collections. Or any game for that matter. You don't have to buy a game. Surely, a masterpiece series like Uncharted is more worthwhile than many other games that get updated ports.

 

You'll enjoy TLoU certainly.

 

Perhaps I came off wrong on a "no" with an Uncharted FHD collection. I'm all for it, just that right now I don't think the Uncharted 4 team (which according to Evan Wells is the majority of the entire studio currently) should be sidetracked with anything else but Uncharted 4.

 

There aren't many franchises that does well beyond a third entry, so it'd be sad to see Uncharted 4 being a downpoint in the series where Sony can't go back to. Basically, ND and Sony can't screw Uncharted 4 up.

 

Perhaps when they are close to completion, a few members can take off and work on the collection, that'd be great.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
 

I would buy an Uncharted Remaster, no hesitation.

 

I agree on the TLOU. Even though I bought it for my sister (my time shall come with the Remaster) I watched her play over my home theatre and once with the Mixamp (putting on the headphones while she played a few minutes) and I agree with ben and conqueror. 

 

As usual Sony games are also always carefully and well recorded.

 

I recently wrote a mail to the good Dr. of Sucker Punch asking about binaural audio on the PS4 (funny thing is I did it one day before the revealed their binaural audio testing center) but sadly got no answer. Infamous audio mix is very good as well. 

 

I hope we'll get your geometry/material/coordinates rendering back (as it's actually kinda promised) + some standard headphone setting like CMSS-3D over OAL/DS, then we can just get the best portable or even stationary dac/amp for our needs and never look back. 

 

Second Son has some pretty good surround cues, I agree with that. The only thing which I found somewhat lacking was that some of the powers lack impact (almost like GTA5 in this sense). It's honestly a little bit underwhelming to me as I came off playing inFamous 1 & 2 just a couple weeks before Second Son releases. 

post #22848 of 26237

I have a PS3 and I managed to miss all the ND games.  I've been thinking about getting a PS4 later this year when more than one game is out for it and TLOU is definitely helping me lean in that direction.  An Uncharted collection would be an instant buy for me too.  Mostly, I just want to be on the console that all my friends are on and right now my friends are pretty split between PS4 and Xbone. 

 

But if PS4 gets the TruAudio going... that will definitely push me over the edge.

post #22849 of 26237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post

I've watched some videos that demonstrate some of the virtual surround technologies, but I find it very different watching compared to when I'm in control and reacting to the cues. I would like to try them all eventually but at the moment I'm slightly more curious to try DH given its popularity.
This curiousity hit me too, though I started with (discovering that my Yamaha receiver had) Silent Cinema, then THX, then DH2, then SBX (on PC). Silent Cinema and Dolby Headphone sound about as close to each other as THX and SBX. I prefer Creative's approach because it sounds less processed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy1471 View Post

Also, Mad Lust Envy, do you know if the Recon3D has an actual 3D (up and down as well as all around) output as opposed to the 2D sound that the mixamp outputs (just all around).
Yes, the Recon3D supports OpenAL, which enabled 3D surround, Doppler, environmental reflections, etc. Unfortunately, the day of OpenAL was back around the time of the original Thief game, Bioshock, and a few others, but unfortunately console gaming became so dominant around the time of CoD4 (and OpenAL became Creative soundcard exclusive) that game devs started dropping support for it. The last game I heard of that had it was Borderlands 2, and I think that was sort of an accident because OpenAL support was just a vestigial part of the game engine used. We're currently hoping AMD's integration of TruAudio will revive 3D audio as a cool next-gen feature, and our hope is whipped to a froth since the PS4 has the TruAudio hardware built-into it, but game developers have to (just) add the plug-in to their games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillhart View Post

I believe that if you use the Recon with USB from a PC, it can.  If you use it with Optical from a console, it can't.
Yes. But it has to be a part of the game frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I didn't get a chance to play TLOU really, so I'm going off the Uncharted series which didn't have the best surround emulation.

And why not a Full HD Collection? It's not like you have to buy it. Also, there are many new PS4 owners who didn't own a PS3, and missed out on an amazing series.
PS4 is my first Playstation! I couldn't stand the previous controller's ergonomics... in fact I still personally wish the underside of the PS4 controller was more fleshed out, perhaps Scuf Gaming will do that for me once they release their PS4 controller mod.
post #22850 of 26237

Are you talking about EAX?

post #22851 of 26237
No, EAX and OpenAL are different. EAX is environmental effects like cave-like reverb. I used bad word choice to say "environmental reflection" before. I discovered all this after both techs were basically extinct/endangered, so I'm not a master of it, but FWIR EAX is just "You're in a cave? Sound echos like you were in a cave. You're in a carpet store? It sounds like that environment," while OpenAL was more complex about figuring out where the sound was coming from and what it would have to do to get to each ear.
post #22852 of 26237

Followed your giude and bought the AD700 + Turtle Beach DSS2 with Bassboost. The sound coming out of this combo is just bloody insane.

The DSS2 really help the AD700 to fill in a lot of weight to the sound.


Edited by nickie - 4/11/14 at 10:55am
post #22853 of 26237

EAX needs to be accessed through OpenAL or DirectSound3D, but EAX itself is NOT OpenAL or DirectSound3D, which are primarily APIs to facilitate the placement of sounds in 3D space.

 

OpenAL doesn't even need the proprietary EAX, really; it's been displaced by the newer EFX, which tends to be supported on non-Creative OpenAL renderers like Rapture3D.

 

All of that said, while both the old DS3D/OAL APIs and AMD's new TrueAudio API were generally designed with hardware DSPs in mind, the fundamental approach appears to be quite different.

 

DS3D and OAL appear to be about letting the game engine talk directly to the audio device driver in terms of where sounds are located in 3D space, and then the audio device driver determines what to do with those sounds from there, how they should be mixed and played.

 

TrueAudio appears to be more of a CPU alternative solution for sound mixing within the game engine ala FMOD Ex and Wwise, which could allow more consistency and flexibility on the developer's part. However, this means that developers do have to know what they're doing when it comes to mixing audio properly for headphones (something that AstoundSound and similar plugins are supposed to resolve), and if there's no CPU fallback with the same quality, even if it takes up a ton of CPU cycles, this could cause some undesirable vendor lock-in to truly max out a game.

 

All of that said, it's probably better that we take this discussion over to my guide thread, since Mad Lust Envy's always been more console-centric.

post #22854 of 26237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post
 

I seem to vaguely remember reading a discussion about how Creative used to have a particular kind of sound technology that was abandoned. I remember the guy was basically saying that he thought Creative isn't as good as they used to be. This sound tech apparently even simulated the Doppler effect.

It must have been open AL the guy was talking about. He seemed pretty annoyed that game audio had taken, what he considered to be, a huge step backwards.

post #22855 of 26237

Originally posted by Evshrug.. PS4 is my first Playstation! I couldn't stand the previous controller's ergonomics... in fact I still personally wish the underside of the PS4 controller was more fleshed out, perhaps Scuf Gaming will do that for me once they release their PS4 controller mod.   I don't like the analogue sticks that much(a tiny bit too long and a bit rubbery)..really i should say that I preferred the ones on the xbox 360 controller..i have crouched down by mistake a few times on battlefield 4..but that's what my gaming pc is for so I am not that bothered,.any other game that i have played they seem to be ok!


Edited by martin vegas - 4/11/14 at 12:02pm
post #22856 of 26237
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post


TrueAudio appears to be more of a CPU alternative solution...

All of that said, it's probably better that we take this discussion over to my guide thread, since Mad Lust Envy's always been more console-centric.
Probably better on your thread, except that now that you said it here, people are going to get the wrong impression.

TrueAudio, as we're talking about it as only available on AMD hardware in a few of their graphics cards and the PS4, requires dedicated Tensilica audio processors (hardware) to process the surround, so it IS "locked" to AMD hardware and it DOES NOT take away CPU resources, just like the Creative hardware processors on X-Fi PCI cards and SoundCore3D sound cards.

I'm not as well read up on DS3D and OpenAL vs FMOD Ex and Wwise, and I recommend anyone curious to go research more in-depth, but I suspect they all get the data about "where a sound originates in 3D space" before creating a stereo or surround mix since TrueAudio/AstoundSound documents distinctly show (by block diagram) that the processing is performed before separating into output channels.

(Dolby headphone is processed after a 5.1 channel Dolby Digital Live mix, as far as a console is concerned the audio processing is already "done" by the time it gets piped out through optical or HDMI)
post #22857 of 26237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Dude, if you game on PC, don't use the Mixamp. AT cheapest, get a Xonar U3. If you have an optical dac (cheapest being a Fiio D03k), you can completely bypass the Xonar's amp and dac, and just send the Dolby Headphone signal to your own amp/dac. I have one, and I send the signal to my Fiio E17 amp/dac (which has an optical input). Sounds great, and the U3 is hella cheap.

It's not worth spending more on a better pc device, since you only need it to send the signal to your own amp/dac. U3 is a perfect choice.

I really need to add it to my guide.

 

How does one do this?

post #22858 of 26237

Hi everyone,

 

After reading some posts and asking some of my own questions and getting very useful answers, I think I'm going to make my first foray into DH audio cheaply at first, with a DSS 1 amp and a Superlux HD668b, and then upgrade later to a K612,K712,Q701,X1, or… ???

 

Questions: 1. why is a Mixamp so much more expensive than a DSS 1? Is it superior audio, or is it the ability to handle voice audio well? I do not care about in game chat at all. Mixamp is like at least $105 used, DSS 1 is $30, DSS 2 is like $65.

 

2. MLE quoted a 1/8 rule for impedance. The Superlux HD668b is 56 ohms (while the identical Samson SR850 is 32 ohms, what's with that?) so does that mean the DSS 1 amp, whose impedance *I cannot find online* but is probably more than 10 ohms, would be unsuitable?

 

3. I want to start budget. So…. HD668b, SR850, or EVO 681?

post #22859 of 26237
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

How does one do this?

The Xonar software has options that you can set. You can tell the U3 to send out an untouched Dolby Digital signal, a PCM stereo signal, or a signal laced with Dolby headphone (basically enabling PCM and clicking on the Dolby headphone button (making sure you choose DH-2, NEVER DH-3.)

Since optical is all digital, there is no processing done with the U3's internal dac or amp, allowing you to decode the signal with your own amp/dac. Trust me, it's great. I wish console devices could do this. Helps that the U3 is sooooo cheap.
post #22860 of 26237
Some SRH1540s are being sold in the classifieds... for a good price, too... though that was their Black Friday price from a few places in November.

Edit: have you guys read the HP100 review on the front page? Y'all sleepin' on SoundMAGIC...
Edited by Change is Good - 4/11/14 at 3:24pm
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