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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 7/9/2014: Ultrasone HFI-15G Added) - Page 1044

post #15646 of 25561

yeah, that's true, it's not very pretty and nobody tried changing this. I guess they're loyal to the board design.

 

The great appeal is in it being the best and at the same time cheapest solution for tougher headphones both SQ-wise and in power.

post #15647 of 25561
Thread Starter 
To anyone else who bought Tales of Xillia... the game runs in Dolby Digital, unlike Tales of Graces F.

I say this, because if you're using Millia, the very first area of the game when you're in control of her has some water running in the distance which offers very fantastic positional cues.

I'm sure the game has plenty of more, but just thought I'd mention this as I just now heard it, and I have to immediately go to sleep, lol.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 8/6/13 at 11:24am
post #15648 of 25561

Is there a good guide somewhere for how to find an appropriate amp for your headphones?

 

I have those TH-600s coming to me now, but from the best information I can find, the output impedance on my Lovely Cube is 6 Ohms on the headphone out, which doesn't seem like a good fit if you use that 1/8th rule (6 Ohms output impedance  48 Ohms minimum headphone impedance vs. the TH-600's 25 Ohms). Most of the technicalities are over my head. I'm not sure about the output impedance directly from the X-Fi Titanium HD itself, but an article at goldenears puts it around 35.59 Ohms (I'm guessing on the headphone out). I don't know how to figure out the line out impedance from the specs given, since all they really say is 2Vrms and 122dB output on the line out. Somebody on the Creative forums said that the line out impedance is "0.01 ohms @ 10K load," but again, I don't know/remember how to translate that to usable information when trying to pair a headphone and amp.


Edited by Dillweed - 8/6/13 at 11:39am
post #15649 of 25561

Line Out of the Titanium HD (don't worry about loss CMSS-3D, it's not bound to any output so you can still use it via line out) to an Objective O2 amp would be a very good combo.

post #15650 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

To anyone else who bought Tales of Xillia... the game runs in Dolby Digital, unlike Tales of Graces F.

 

That's kind of exciting. I should really pick up a surround device for my PS3. 

post #15651 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Nah, they should be similar.

I never got into the O2 because of all the inputs being in the front. That is a horrible design. I mean, REALLY, a power adapter input on the front? That is such a turn off.

 

It is easy enough to purchase one with inputs on the back, or build your own. I'll get pics uploaded of the one we just finished.

 

-Erik

 

Edit: We need to make the front LED dimmer

 

 

 

 


Edited by burritoboy9984 - 8/6/13 at 12:34pm
post #15652 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Nah, they should be similar.

I never got into the O2 because of all the inputs being in the front. That is a horrible design. I mean, REALLY, a power adapter input on the front? That is such a turn off.
I don't like the power on the front plate either, nor how the O2 is in purgatory between desktop and portable sized, and is kind of a miss for either application. In the case of the E12, I actually understand having input, output, and volume "at the top," all the cables and controls are at the top of your pocket.

And yeah, that volume pot is hella tight, but it doesn't have that bracket thing over it like the E11. Eventually, you get used to the angle you need to torque to get it turning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

yeah, that's true, it's not very pretty and nobody tried changing this. I guess they're loyal to the board design.

The great appeal is in it being the best and at the same time cheapest solution for tougher headphones both SQ-wise and in power.
Is it really the best though?
post #15653 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietcux View Post

I have both the Xonar U1 and the Xonar U7. The U1 has the same interface and the same options as the U3. But it has a better headphone amp section. It is good enough for Games and Movies. And you have the optical out that can feed the Dolby Headphone signal to your high quality DAC/AMP. The U7 on the other hand has a new Dolby implementation. It contains all Dolby Headphone algorithms and sounds for sure not worse than the U1/U3. But they gave up the manually selection of how many channels you want to run. Dolby says it is selected by the source automatically to grant you the best multichannel performance. And the user cannot select 2 channel when he has a 7.1 source. The U7 has a coax S/PDIF out and when using it you can still use the DH function of the Dolby software. But as I have no external DAC I cannot proof how good it sounds. The analog headphone out of the U7 outclasses the U1/U3. You can also enjoy your music with the K701 for sure, not only games and movies.

interesting, thanks

 

so my choices are:

 

1) keep u3 and go SPDIF to external dac/amp (a fiiio?)- SPDIF won't work in OSX (massive problem, will probably get rid of the U3 because of that)

2) get u7 and use it as a dac/amp (assuming the coax output works in OSX- can anyone test this? just plug it in, alt-click on the sound icon in top right and see what outputs there are from the card)

3) recon 3d with dac/amp- mac drivers so SPDIF to external DAC

4) is there a creative equivalent of the u7? the x-fi pro usb card maybe? but not sure if it has mac drivers, and support for THX tru surround 

 

so basically it's get a cheap soundcard (recon) and go to a DAC/amp, or get a good sound card and be happy with that- maybe get a DAC/amp in the future

the more I think about it the more I think I should get the recon, and an external DAC/amp- i've just heard that DH is better than the tru surround that creative use

 

i'd be happy to spend £100, maybe £120

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


I haven't used the U3 myself. Right now I'm using a DSS, analogue out to my tube amp, and I'm not particularly interested in seeking another DH product. I sold my Recon3D USB in a bundle with my AD700 headphones, a "complete gamer kit," but I miss the Recon, and I had it plugged into my computer via USB (dual-boots Mac and Windows, and it continues to provide power through USB even if turned off) and optical to my Xbox at the same time, then a headphone-to-RCA cable into my tube amp, then Q701. I don't currently own a proper external DAC, unless you count the DSS (works in stereo with the PC, but I don't use it that way), but that'll be the last thing I'll upgrade.

I'll actually make a weird recommendation. First, just plug your K701s into your device. It ought to still impress you with better refinement and detail, and be a clear upgrade. Then, save up for a good amp later, one you won't need to replace. It'll be like two surprises in just how great things can get, and you'll end up with a better amp.

I use a custom-made tube amp (a super simple 6DJ8 amp), a FiiO E12, and in my old apartment I used to use my Yamaha receiver for simplicity's sake (DAC, amp, surround processor, input switcher, and speaker amp all in one, with a remote control for bonus). Oh, I also used a FiiO E5 at first, that was ok and it did take a bit of the edge off of the treble, but better amps were better. Other good recommendations for amps are around, but I feel that tonally they're all pretty close if they're solid-state amps (which is partly why I'm playing with tubes), so pick one with a good match in high power and low output impedance.

I personally think THX TruStudio Pro was also an advantage of the Recon3D USB, but that's a taste thing.

 

how much would I be looking at for an 'amp I don't need to replace', i'd rather get that right away instead of a stop gap waste-of-money amp- don't really want to spend more than 200 max though, i'm not really an audiophile, and the law of diminishing returns doesn't interest me, I'm not a huge music listener and I mostly listen to quite low key electronic music- I only really got the 701's because they look awesome, and they were a pretty good price 


Edited by firefly89 - 8/6/13 at 6:05pm
post #15654 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


I haven't used the U3 myself. Right now I'm using a DSS, analogue out to my tube amp, and I'm not particularly interested in seeking another DH product. I sold my Recon3D USB in a bundle with my AD700 headphones, a "complete gamer kit," but I miss the Recon, and I had it plugged into my computer via USB (dual-boots Mac and Windows, and it continues to provide power through USB even if turned off) and optical to my Xbox at the same time, then a headphone-to-RCA cable into my tube amp, then Q701. I don't currently own a proper external DAC, unless you count the DSS (works in stereo with the PC, but I don't use it that way), but that'll be the last thing I'll upgrade.

I'll actually make a weird recommendation. First, just plug your K701s into your device. It ought to still impress you with better refinement and detail, and be a clear upgrade. Then, save up for a good amp later, one you won't need to replace. It'll be like two surprises in just how great things can get, and you'll end up with a better amp.

I use a custom-made tube amp (a super simple 6DJ8 amp), a FiiO E12, and in my old apartment I used to use my Yamaha receiver for simplicity's sake (DAC, amp, surround processor, input switcher, and speaker amp all in one, with a remote control for bonus). Oh, I also used a FiiO E5 at first, that was ok and it did take a bit of the edge off of the treble, but better amps were better. Other good recommendations for amps are around, but I feel that tonally they're all pretty close if they're solid-state amps (which is partly why I'm playing with tubes), so pick one with a good match in high power and low output impedance.

I personally think THX TruStudio Pro was also an advantage of the Recon3D USB, but that's a taste thing.

I might go for your option of just using the 701's with the recon/u3- but if you think an amp, or a DAC/amp would improve things (which would be better? i'm looking at the Fiio products, the e12 and the e17) I have the money right now so would like to go for it and not have to worry about upgrading again

 

if I got the e17 I could use it as a USB dac with osx, and as a SPDIF dac to convert DH audio from u3- or should I just get the recon and feed the e17 SPDIF for osx and windows?


Edited by firefly89 - 8/6/13 at 6:34pm
post #15655 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

yeah, that's true, it's not very pretty and nobody tried changing this. I guess they're loyal to the board design.

The great appeal is in it being the best and at the same time cheapest solution for tougher headphones both SQ-wise and in power.

Says who? A whole bunch of people have modified where the inputs/outputs are.
post #15656 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Says who? A whole bunch of people have modified where the inputs/outputs are.

 

DIY people for sure. I don't see any EU reseller doing this though. 

post #15657 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Says who? A whole bunch of people have modified where the inputs/outputs are.

 

DIY people for sure. I don't see any EU reseller doing this though. 

Well yeah...

 

Quote:
Anyone is free to use the O2 design, as presented here, if they comply with the Creative Commons
 
No Derivative Works — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.
post #15658 of 25561
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly89 View Post

interesting, thanks

so my choices are:

1) keep u3 and go SPDIF to external dac/amp (a fiiio?)- SPDIF won't work in OSX (massive problem, will probably get rid of the U3 because of that)
2) get u7 and use it as a dac/amp (assuming the coax output works in OSX- can anyone test this? just plug it in, alt-click on the sound icon in top right and see what outputs there are from the card)
3) recon 3d with dac/amp- mac drivers so SPDIF to external DAC
4) is there a creative equivalent of the u7? the x-fi pro usb card maybe? but not sure if it has mac drivers, and support for THX tru surround 

so basically it's get a cheap soundcard (recon) and go to a DAC/amp, or get a good sound card and be happy with that- maybe get a DAC/amp in the future
the more I think about it the more I think I should get the recon, and an external DAC/amp- i've just heard that DH is better than the tru surround that creative use

i'd be happy to spend £100, maybe £120

how much would I be looking at for an 'amp I don't need to replace', i'd rather get that right away instead of a stop gap waste-of-money amp- don't really want to spend more than 200 max though, i'm not really an audiophile, and the law of diminishing returns doesn't interest me, I'm not a huge music listener and I mostly listen to quite low key electronic music- I only really got the 701's because they look awesome, and they were a pretty good price 

About your choices... I don't think the U3 has full functionality with OS X, in fact I'm pretty sure it just would show up as a generic stereo device. So probably no DH from that. Second, I've been very specific to NOT ABBREVIATE Recon3D USB, because there are Recon3D internal soundcards (no native Mac drivers for these by Creative) and then there's the USB unit that does have Mac drivers and CAN address DDL input from consoles S/PDIF optical so that consoles can supply surround sound. Third, the Recon3D USB does not have a digital output to connect to another DAC... the Recon3D USB >is< the DAC, and you would want to double amp using the analogue headphone jack. Don't worry, this works pretty well because the noise floor of the Recon3D USB is pretty low, I've had good/great results with all my amps.

Creative makes an X-Fi Go! Pro (or something similarly named) that is the equivalent USB stick as the Asus Xonar U3, but it says on the product page that it doesn't support Mac either. OS X may still mount it as a generic stereo device, but that doesn't give you a benefit over the pretty good internal sound on Apple computers (most of their headphone jacks also double as optical outputs, too).

I've mentioned before, Creative is rumored to be making another Mac-compatible external sound device, but I don't know what that'll support and I bet it's at least a few months away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly89 View Post

I might go for your option of just using the 701's with the recon/u3- but if you think an amp, or a DAC/amp would improve things (which would be better? i'm looking at the Fiio products, the e12 and the e17) I have the money right now so would like to go for it and not have to worry about upgrading again

if I got the e17 I could use it as a USB dac with osx, and as a SPDIF dac to convert DH audio from u3- or should I just get the recon and feed the e17 SPDIF for osx and windows?

Yeah, here's where I think you're saying that you think the Recon has a digital out... It doesn't. The E17 is a DAC/amp, and the Recon3D USB is a DAC/amp with only a headphone output, the E17's amp section is stronger than the Recon3D's but neither is really good amping for the K701 by themselves. A receiver with headphone surround (like the old Denon/Marantz receivers with DH, old and current Yamaha receivers with Silent Cinema, and other manufacturer's implimentations) would have a decent amp section to be an all-in-one solution for the K701, you can get one like mine for less than $200 US dollar. If you use the Recon3D USB + an amp, that amp could be a FiiO E09k or E12, Little Dot i+, or one of the amps Head-Fi user Chicolom has enjoyed with his Q701 (Matrix M-Stage, iFi iCAN). Some people like the Objective2, but I think it's the bastard child of a desktop and portable amp that borders on analytical sound and was designed to prove a point and make NuForce look bad; it's a good value SQ-wise but I probably won't buy one.

Does that help any? I'm falling as.eep, and typing/concentrating is getting hard when some of my blinks starts some REM activity. Goodnight my friends on Head-Fi!
post #15659 of 25561

Slowly read through like 50 pages of posts while listening and still loving my Pro2900 playing my new guilty pleasure, the new Tommy Feb6 album. I'm still trying to figure out how to pick up a TH600 :/

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

To anyone else who bought Tales of Xillia... the game runs in Dolby Digital, unlike Tales of Graces F.

I say this, because if you're using Millia, the very first area of the game when you're in control of her has some water running in the distance which offers very fantastic positional cues.

I'm sure the game has plenty of more, but just thought I'd mention this as I just now heard it, and I have to immediately go to sleep, lol.

 

I should be getting my copy from Amazon tomorrow. Not sure when I'm going to start it since I picked up Time and Eternity about 2 weeks ago. The game and audio is pretty bad and I had to switch playing it in stereo since the voice mixing is pretty horrid in DH. This is bad since the japanese voice cast has some of my favorites :/ Oh well, I'm only playing it for an hour or 2 every other day so...

post #15660 of 25561
Thread Starter 
I heard that game was... not good. I was looking forward to it just based on the character models looking like they came straight out of an anime, but reviews have slammed the game, and just from what I've seen, I probably would've been peeved to waste that much money on a dud. I want to help keep jrpgs alive, but companies need to start localizing the GOOD games, not these lackluster titles. There's so much of a backlog that they can localize and be popular now, but companies would never do that.

I'm so excited for Xillia. My last real, lengthy, console RPG played was tales Graces F, which was a year ago. That's how scarce JRPGs are now.
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