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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 7/9/2014: Ultrasone HFI-15G Added) - Page 1035

post #15511 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubtoad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

I have a PC. I have no need for (additional) machinesbiggrin.gif

I have a decent PC too. I5-3570k with a GTX 670, 8GB ram etc etc.

 

But it doesn't play Sony/Nintendo exclusives, and doesn't play certain Microsoft/Console Exclusives.

 

 

and yeah I'm glad that Astro won't have to make a new mixamp specifically for the Xbox 1, but they probably will make one anyways hah

 

far as I can tell nothing should change between ps3/ps4. At least nothing that has been announced.

Sure it can...via emulator! :)

post #15512 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Sure it can...via emulator! :)


Yeah, but there's at least a 10 year gap for every console Sony.

post #15513 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post
Umm, optical cables can take in 5 channels, IIRC.

And like I figured, DH can be done once a signal has gone back to PCM, but what's not said, is that a raw PCM file won't be proper DH. Unless the device supports it (converting PCM to DD, more than likely), PCM audio files are not gonna be real Dolby Headphone. You can try that with any source. Try that with the Mixamp, DSS, Recond 3D. PCM simply will not convert into DH. IT MUST BE DOLBY DIGITAL, unless the source converts internally.

What I believe is happening when PCM DOES work, is that the raw PCM file gets converted into Dolby Digital first, then into DH. But again, only some devices do that, like older Marantz receivers.

Like that link mentioned as well, some 2 channel audio will convert into a lower tier Dolby Headphone (Nintendo Wii plays in this ghetto DH because the Wii has a Pro Logic II option). Usually what happens when a Dolby Digital signal is sent through an RCA connection (thus making it send Pro Logic II instead, which is embedded in DD signals, FWIR). However, IT MUST be taken from DPLII. A basic stereo signal will not work, which is when you get the nonsense up sampled stereo.

 

The ONLY reason S/PDIF cables can handle more than two channels of audio is because the extra channels require lossy compression. That's how Dolby Digital/AC-3 and DTS work in the first place; they throw away data from the PCM channels in order to get them to fit into limited S/PDIF bandwidth. Then, once the signal hits the decoder, each channel is decoded back into PCM, albeit not identical PCM due to said data loss. It's at that point that Dolby Headphone is applied to the reconstructed PCM channels.

 

HDMI obviously does not have this limitation, so I see absolutely no need for a Dolby Digital source conversion. Dolby Headphone would just apply the processing straight to the unchanged PCM channels. Any additional steps would be needlessly complicated and degrading on sound quality. And of course, it's not a bandwidth limitation for USB, PCI, and PCI-Express when talking about PC sound cards.

 

It also wouldn't make much sense to decode a DTS signal into PCM, RE-encode it into AC-3/Dolby Digital, and then apply DH to that for the same reasons. Or, for that matter, neuter Dolby TrueHD and DTS-Master Audio tracks on Blu-ray movies into their cut-down versions before applying DH. It's just not logical, especially considering that if the C-Media chipset sound cards are any indication, DH does support full 7.1 if it can get a full 7.1 signal to work with.

 

The important part you want to drive home isn't whether the signal is encoded in PCM or DD, but whether or not the signal is stereo or surround. As you mentioned with Dolby Pro Logic II, that's a case of matrixed surround that can be carried over two analog channels and decoded with the right processor, but could easily be mistaken for stereo otherwise, especially since a receiver or headphone surround processor can't detect PL2 encoding like it can DD or DTS. And as for PCM, it's only cut down to stereo with S/PDIF.


Edited by NamelessPFG - 7/31/13 at 1:35pm
post #15514 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

The ONLY reason S/PDIF cables can handle more than two channels of audio is because the extra channels require lossy compression. That's how Dolby Digital/AC-3 and DTS work in the first place; they throw away data from the PCM channels in order to get them to fit into limited S/PDIF bandwidth. Then, once the signal hits the decoder, each channel is decoded back into PCM, albeit not identical PCM due to said data loss. It's at that point that Dolby Headphone is applied to the reconstructed PCM channels.

HDMI obviously does not have this limitation, so I see absolutely no need for a Dolby Digital source conversion. Dolby Headphone would just apply the processing straight to the unchanged PCM channels. Any additional steps would be needlessly complicated and degrading on sound quality. And of course, it's not a bandwidth limitation for USB, PCI, and PCI-Express when talking about PC sound cards.

It also wouldn't make much sense to decode a DTS signal into PCM, RE-encode it into AC-3/Dolby Digital, and then apply DH to that for the same reasons. Or, for that matter, neuter Dolby TrueHD and DTS-Master Audio tracks on Blu-ray movies into their cut-down versions before applying DH. It's just not logical, especially considering that if the C-Media chipset sound cards are any indication, DH does support full 7.1 if it can get a full 7.1 signal to work with.

The important part you want to drive home isn't whether the signal is encoded in PCM or DD, but whether or not the signal is stereo or surround. As you mentioned with Dolby Pro Logic II, that's a case of matrixed surround that can be carried over two analog channels and decoded with the right processor, but could easily be mistaken for stereo otherwise, especially since a receiver or headphone surround processor can't detect PL2 encoding like it can DD or DTS. And as for PCM, it's only cut down to stereo with S/PDIF.

Thanks Nameless, that is how I was gathering it worked as well.

-Erik
post #15515 of 26173
Anyone knows if the Sony MDR-1R worth the $200 p rice on amazon? And is it good for gaming compare to the Dt 990 Pro ?
post #15516 of 26173
Thread Starter 
It's a closed headphone, while the 990 pro is open. If there is anything to be learned, is that closed headphones almost always don't compare to open headphones for gaming use or otherwise.
post #15517 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

The ONLY reason S/PDIF cables can handle more than two channels of audio is because the extra channels require lossy compression. That's how Dolby Digital/AC-3 and DTS work in the first place; they throw away data from the PCM channels in order to get them to fit into limited S/PDIF bandwidth. 

 

2 channels (stereo) of 24-bit@96Khz (optical) is roughly 4,5mbit or let's say 4500kbps. AC3 should be around 448-640kbps, DTS 768-1536kbps. SPDIF isn't really limited, it just sucks (for the industry) for copy protection and general content encryption. That's why we'll never see any improvement in this regard. 

post #15518 of 26173

Apparently Astro A50's are garbage lol.

 

Was playing BO2 with my friend and he's asking me how I'm hearing all these footsteps when he can't hear a thing. biggrin.gif

post #15519 of 26173
Thread Starter 
Said it... it's not that great a headphone. A40 is considerably better, and the PLYR1 shows how wireless headsets should be. The PLYR1 should be a top priority for anyone who wants a wireless headset.

Not a fan of the A50.
post #15520 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervysage View Post

Apparently Astro A50's are garbage lol.

Was playing BO2 with my friend and he's asking me how I'm hearing all these footsteps when he can't hear a thing. biggrin.gif

So your friend is using the Astro A50 headset, and you are using?
post #15521 of 26173
Thread Starter 


Lookie what I got in the mail...

Nuforce HP-800.

Before I say anything, two stock cables.

Braided: 0.9ohm. So nice looking, but resistance is higher than the ones I'm using.

Thin short cable: 0.6ohm

And here I thought I found a good cable for my X1. No luck.

Intial impressions: bassy, very warm, soft, mids are noticeably recessed. This is just off a few songs.

These are definitely for clubheads.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 8/1/13 at 12:19pm
post #15522 of 26173

New review incoming!

post #15523 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

It's a closed headphone, while the 990 pro is open. If there is anything to be learned, is that closed headphones almost always don't compare to open headphones for gaming use or otherwise.

Unless you use the TH-600 for gaming, which would fall under the "almost" category and render this statement "almost" false. 

post #15524 of 26173
Thread Starter 
Yet, you're talking about a $1000 headphone. And Fostex Denons and their successors are known for their large soundstage, despite their mostly closed back design. Everyone knows that they dont isolate that well and should be taken as somewhat open. They are a rare breed, and don't fall in line with how true closed back headphones really do for gaming.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 8/1/13 at 12:41pm
post #15525 of 26173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Yet, you're talking about a $1000 headphone. And Fostex Denons and their successors are known for their large soundstage, despite their mostly closed back design. Everyone knows that they dont isolate that well and should be taken as somewhat open. They are a rare breed, and don't fall in line with how true closed back headphones really do for gaming.

I know, you need to snag a pair and see how they compare to the D7000.

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