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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 4/17/2014: AKG K612 and K712 Pro added + edits) - Page 637

post #9541 of 23257

That external exitgy box is one of the very very very few boxes (that aren't full sized receivers) that will take 5.1 over optical/coaxial. The point of that thing was to use your cheap 5.1 pc speaker setup with consoles and dvd players.Things like that just aren't made anymore which makes that external exitgy sound card so damn rare, I know this because a few years ago I was looking for it to use instead of a receiver and to use my 360 with some cheap logitech speakers for 5.1 gaming.

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure you can just plug a 360/PS3 to the optical input on a soundcard and expect it to give you a 5.1 signal, it'll instead be knocked down to 2.0/1. This is me just going off of memory when I wanted to do this before and found out the only thing that could do it was that external extigy. This was about 6-7 years ago so things might have changed.

post #9542 of 23257
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raband View Post


From the list upcoming titles: 2013 Releases

Probably not too much - 3 out of 4 platforms work with their product and the Wii U seems a bit below the tipping point to demand a hardware overhaul.

I don't expect any device any time soon, but perhaps for the next holiday season, there may be something. It's actually really disappointing that these companies have not yet made one with HDMI inputs, and LPCM conversion.

Now that I have some contact with Skullcandy, I could sway them into making the Astro side make something... biggrin.gif

Ideally:

Multiple HDMI inputs (at least two): If not, one HDMI input with an included HDMI switcher (at least 2 in to 1 out)

One HDMI output to the TV: though since devices tend to be their best when they have their own inputs and specific color settings, I'd personally buy an HDMI splitter for all my devices, where one goes to the TV, and one to the Neo-Mixamp.

LPCM to Dolby Headphone converter: It's time.

DTS to Dolby Headphone (Blu-Rays): The JVC/Victor SU-DH1 has one, so I don't see why the Mixamp can't have one either. Companies can't keep thinking Dolby Digital is as universal as they seem to think it is. Blu-Rays are mostly DTS, and not every Blu-Ray device has a Bitstream Mix option like the PS3.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/9/12 at 9:31pm
post #9543 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


I didn't think so, but maybe... Optical is how the Recon3D connects to PS3 and Xbox, if you've seen any other optical input soundcards those should work. For example, an internal soundcard like the one I posted has an optical input, theoretically anything that accepts a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 signal over optical input should work, though there may have to be some settings craziness to get it working, and an internal soundcard would of course require your console and PC to be running at the same time. People like Nameless PFG already know the answer, and more fully than I.

 

I thought the Recon3D was a USB soundcard? Why not HDMI? I think there is a card that has HDMI output as well. EDIT: Auzentech makes a card with HDMI input and output. The thread I'm about to post has an older version card that has this (not sure if this is the only company), but apparently, the sound card be output to the receiver, as Head-Fi user Renugaid does, which would mean that, I think, that if the ps3 was plugged into it's input, I could have the same setup? Yeah, things have changed :P Anyway, consult this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons/45 I think Nameless would be impressed with this as he misses the binuaral 3d audio. I honestly think this is the best audio you can get.


Edited by SoAmusing777 - 12/9/12 at 11:11pm
post #9544 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by calpis View Post

That external exitgy box is one of the very very very few boxes (that aren't full sized receivers) that will take 5.1 over optical/coaxial. The point of that thing was to use your cheap 5.1 pc speaker setup with consoles and dvd players.Things like that just aren't made anymore which makes that external exitgy sound card so damn rare, I know this because a few years ago I was looking for it to use instead of a receiver and to use my 360 with some cheap logitech speakers for 5.1 gaming.

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure you can just plug a 360/PS3 to the optical input on a soundcard and expect it to give you a 5.1 signal, it'll instead be knocked down to 2.0/1. This is me just going off of memory when I wanted to do this before and found out the only thing that could do it was that external extigy. This was about 6-7 years ago so things might have changed.

 

Yup, the thing is though, it's only 5.1 DD. Yeah, it is rare :) Why would that happen? I would think I could use a card that has HDMI input and output. EDIT: Auzentech makes a card with HDMI input and output. The thread I'm about to post has an older version card that has this (not sure if this is the only company), but apparently, the sound card be output to the receiver, as Head-Fi user Renugaid does, which would mean that, I think, that if the ps3 was plugged into it's input, I could have the same setup? Yeah, things have changed :P Anyway, consult this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons/45 I think Nameless would be impressed with this as he misses the binuaral 3d audio. I think this is as best as it gets.


Edited by SoAmusing777 - 12/9/12 at 11:09pm
post #9545 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


I dunno what Monoprice was thinking with this obnoxiously thick 3.5mm cables.

 

 

Look at this beast of a cable!  LOL!

 

100 feet of Monoprice premium...

 

post #9546 of 23257
Thread Starter 
That is a scary cable, lol. I do love the thickness for RCA interconnect, but NOT for 3.5mm cables, lol.

Sitting here listening to music through tha CAL. I forgot just how impressive they truly are. No question... they are just that damn good. The SLYR is good as a headset, and the sound quality is pretty good, but the CAL is audiophile grade at an affordable price. The CAL is more open sounding, and clearer. They SLYR sounds slightly boxed in and stuffy next to the CAL.

This is a direct comparison. The SLYR is still impressive, and thicker sounding, but it goes to show you that a headphone sound quality at a similar price range will tend to be improved on what headsets offer. Still, I really like just how good the SLYR sounds even next to the superior CAL, and I find them more comfy due to the velour pads. Can't dismiss the convenience of an all in one headset. I also feel that I could abuse the SLYR more than the CAL. The CAL is shiny and all, but I feel they are more fragile. The SLYR looks like it can take a hit better. The cable on SLYR is significantly better than the flimsy one on the CAL, not to mention, you can always replace the SLYR's cable. The CAL doesn't have a detachable cable.

Soon enough, I'll make comparisons for gaming.

The Creative Aurvana Live really is such a steal at their price range. No question.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/10/12 at 12:10am
post #9547 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


I don't expect any device any time soon, but perhaps for the next holiday season, there may be something. It's actually really disappointing that these companies have not yet made one with HDMI inputs, and LPCM conversion.
Now that I have some contact with Skullcandy, I could sway them into making the Astro side make something... biggrin.gif
Ideally:
Multiple HDMI inputs (at least two): If not, one HDMI input with an included HDMI switcher (at least 2 in to 1 out)
One HDMI output to the TV: though since devices tend to be their best when they have their own inputs and specific color settings, I'd personally buy an HDMI splitter for all my devices, where one goes to the TV, and one to the Neo-Mixamp.
LPCM to Dolby Headphone converter: It's time.
DTS to Dolby Headphone (Blu-Rays): The JVC/Victor SU-DH1 has one, so I don't see why the Mixamp can't have one either. Companies can't keep thinking Dolby Digital is as universal as they seem to think it is. Blu-Rays are mostly DTS, and not every Blu-Ray device has a Bitstream Mix option like the PS3.

I'm sold on that idea! I think most people on this thread that are willing to shell out for higher end headphones would get this.

 

I love my mid range 5.1 speaker setup at home, but for those times when the wife, kids, neighbors for some, etc... don't want to hear 80-100 decibels of pure gaming and movie enjoyment and headphones are the go too, a streamlined solution such as this would work. Maybe us console owners will get a W when the new gaming boxes are selling with upgraded DAC's and games pumping out True Dolby HD and DTS HD. 

 

MLE thank you for putting this thread together and all that has contributed. Great read and very informative.

post #9548 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Sitting here listening to music through tha CAL. I forgot just how impressive they truly are. No question... they are just that damn good.

The Creative Aurvana Live really is such a steal at their price range. No question.

 

 

Yes. 

 

My CALs don't get used too much since I don't really need a closed headphone.  But every time I do use them, I'm surprised how good they are.  I can't justify selling them when they're so nice for the price.

post #9549 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

Thirded. Only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you.

 

Everyone here has already seen the back-and-forth between me and MLE on CMSS-3D Headphone's viability for PC gaming. I hear all the cues and it sounds very much 3D to me at its best, he thinks it's a crappy stereo upmix. Meanwhile, we both agree that Dolby Headphone is very effective at what it does, even if I think it falls short compared to any game with proper 3D positional audio that CMSS-3D Headphone, Rapture3D, Aureal A3D, etc. can leverage the positional data of to offer more than a virtual 7.1 speaker system's worth of imaging.

 

I thought before that pretty much all binaural mixing tech based on generic/human population average HRTFs like CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, THX TruStudio Surround, whatever the DSS2 uses, Silent Cinema, etc. would either all work for a given person or not at all, but that's clearly not the case here.

 

This also extends to headphones, sound signature preferences, etc. People are looking for different things in headphones, and if you're looking for headphone recommendations, it's best to know the preferences of those giving you recommendations so that you get an idea of whether or not what they like is also what you like.

 

This is a really old quote, I know, but I had a question, which I will present a bit later in this post. Yes, only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you. So, knowing that CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone (which is actually an ERTF [which is unrealistic]), THX TruStudio, DSS2 whatever, Silent Cinema, and all the other random companies' version of virtual surround sound, is all GENERIC/AVERAGE HRTF, why the hell hasn't anyone checked out something that is CUSTOM/USER TAILORED, like uhh, MyEars!? It works because those are all averages, albeit different averages, so some work better than others. Totally agreed. I would think the best setup would be (since this is a console thread) a PC card that supports HDMI in and Out (only Auzentech that I know of) coupled with MyEars, to a high end receiver (Yamaha Aventage line), then obviously out to an OLED monitor (when it's available) or an IPS LED LCD for now, with Audiophile grade headphones plugged into the receiver. Who's with me? I've been doing hella research to find this out, but this seems to be the answer.

post #9550 of 23257
Thread Starter 
I typed Fidelio X1 on Amazon, and almost had a heart attack when a headphone came up for $280. Then I saw it was the L1, not the X1. frown.gif

To update on the SLYR vs CAL, I 'm actually digging the SLYR a little more at the moment. The voices in music are easier to pick up on the SLYR. The SLYR is a more aggressive sounding headphone, in a good way. The CAL is more refined, but more diffused sounding, like more blended in. I like that the SLYR puts the voices in it's own layer. Hard to explain. The bass is almost considerably more present on the SLYR, but not in an obnoxious way. The A50's bass is more obtrusive by a bit. The CAL has less bass, but still sounds warmer for some reason.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/10/12 at 3:10am
post #9551 of 23257

AUREAL MONSTER VORTEX 2 Sound Card PCI w/driver CD BA88DL30A-03 (New condition) - Somebody tell NamelessPFG I just picked this up :P I only got it due to some of his posts. Hard to find as well, quite rare. I did an Ebay, Amazon, All of Craigslist, and Google shopping search. This seemed to be the best option as it was the most recent card. I'll keep this handy for when I build my Windows 9x machine :D I'll need help getting the rest of the parts (not building it as I will have someone do that for me) as I do not know much about computers.


Edited by SoAmusing777 - 12/10/12 at 3:37am
post #9552 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

I thought the Recon3D was a USB soundcard? Why not HDMI? I think there is a card that has HDMI output as well. EDIT: Auzentech makes a card with HDMI input and output. The thread I'm about to post has an older version card that has this (not sure if this is the only company), but apparently, the sound card be output to the receiver, as Head-Fi user Renugaid does, which would mean that, I think, that if the ps3 was plugged into it's input, I could have the same setup? Yeah, things have changed :P Anyway, consult this thread: silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons I think Nameless would be impressed with this as he misses the binuaral 3d audio. I honestly think this is the best audio you can get.
I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. When I said soundcard with optical input that I just posted, I meant the post with the link on it to the Creative X-Fi Titanium HD for $110. My Recon3D is indeed a USB soundcard, but Creative also made/makes Recon3D-branded internal sound cards (that I wouldn't recommend).

I don't know if there are any HDMI input sound cards, and wasn't Auzentech bought out by Creative? Maybe not. I just looked up the Ti HD page and Asus Xonar STX page, neither mention support for console Optical input, but I could've sworn I saw something like that yesterday...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

This is a really old quote, I know, but I had a question, which I will present a bit later in this post. Yes, only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you. So, knowing that CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone (which is actually an ERTF [which is unrealistic]), THX TruStudio, DSS2 whatever, Silent Cinema, and all the other random companies' version of virtual surround sound, is all GENERIC/AVERAGE HRTF, why the hell hasn't anyone checked out something that is CUSTOM/USER TAILORED, like uhh, MyEars!? It works because those are all averages, albeit different averages, so some work better than others. Totally agreed. I would think the best setup would be (since this is a console thread) a PC card that supports HDMI in and Out (only Auzentech that I know of) coupled with MyEars, to a high end receiver (Yamaha Aventage line), then obviously out to an OLED monitor (when it's available) or an IPS LED LCD for now, with Audiophile grade headphones plugged into the receiver. Who's with me? I've been doing hella research to find this out, but this seems to be the answer.

I started reading the MyEars site, looks interesting, especially if they come through with the other platforms like consoles and iPad, but the critical question is can their user-listening calibration tests accurately create a custom HRTF? We DID mention custom HRTFs in a wistful, that'll-never-be-cost-justifiable way when talking about the Smith Realizer that uses inner-ear microphones for a custom HRTF, for a cool $1k. Can a PC software patch improve on generic HRTF? Hmmm well... maybe. Thing is though, it's still 2D surround, a circle of sound direction rather than a 3D sphere, and as it happens I and others have the 2D surround that works well already, without adding extra overhead to the PC (which is irrelivant to Console gaming, IF you can figure out how to send a 5.1 or 7.1 signal to the PC, and don't mind having your computer next to your console and running up your electric bill).

Something like MyEar may be worth a try if you can sort out all the logistics, but I have to wait until I hear user experiences. -->poverty
post #9553 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. When I said soundcard with optical input that I just posted, I meant the post with the link on it to the Creative X-Fi Titanium HD for $110. My Recon3D is indeed a USB soundcard, but Creative also made/makes Recon3D-branded internal sound cards (that I wouldn't recommend).
I don't know if there are any HDMI input sound cards, and wasn't Auzentech bought out by Creative? Maybe not. I just looked up the Ti HD page and Asus Xonar STX page, neither mention support for console Optical input, but I could've sworn I saw something like that yesterday...
I started reading the MyEars site, looks interesting, especially if they come through with the other platforms like consoles and iPad, but the critical question is can their user-listening calibration tests accurately create a custom HRTF? We DID mention custom HRTFs in a wistful, that'll-never-be-cost-justifiable way when talking about the Smith Realizer that uses inner-ear microphones for a custom HRTF, for a cool $1k. Can a PC software patch improve on generic HRTF? Hmmm well... maybe. Thing is though, it's still 2D surround, a circle of sound direction rather than a 3D sphere, and as it happens I and others have the 2D surround that works well already, without adding extra overhead to the PC (which is irrelivant to Console gaming, IF you can figure out how to send a 5.1 or 7.1 signal to the PC, and don't mind having your computer next to your console and running up your electric bill).
Something like MyEar may be worth a try if you can sort out all the logistics, but I have to wait until I hear user experiences. -->poverty

 

Oh. Why would you not recommend them? A quick google search found an older Asus card with both HDMI input and output. I wonder if there are any other cards like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auzentech Nope. They just collab. They are a Korean company. Definitely. I saw some reviews where people had posted success with MyEars. I think a high end sound card with Audiophile grade headphones really helps in the calibration process though. Also, they have a trial version, but the main version is only $20!! I think they have a refund policy too. Why not give it a go? Poverty? Lol. Yup, that's ridiculous. Too much money and too much of a pain. Law of diminishing returns. It sure seems like it to me! Yes, it is 2D, because in the end, it's about the developers mixing the sound. It needs not to be a software renderer, but something using OpenAL/Direct3DSound/ect, where the sound can be coordinated in a 3d plane rather than a darn 5.1 or 7.1. Actually, if it's still 2D, why are they touting 3D sound (much like Creative with CMSS-3D)? Is this because they have something similar to MaxroFX and the Elevation filter?

 

Why didn't you tell me you replied on this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons/60 ? I was getting a whole big reply prepared for you. That thread is very important. It has SC DSP settings, CMSS-3D headphone setup, and what not. I have a reply in there you should read as well.

 

Either way, would I not be able to get a sound card that has HDMI IN and OUT, and run the PS3 to it (you mentioned figuring out a way to send, well, the Auzentech accepts 8channel LPCM at 24bit/192khz [you need to read the overview, specs, and features tab here: http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_hometheater_hd.php]), then out to the TV, or better yet, a receiver, while getting the benefits that the sound card has to offer by way of CMSS-3D or better yet, MyEars? This seems to be the best option since some games are software rendered not using OpenAL/Directsound3D/or something with 3d coordinates. I think I could create a minipc (like that of FalconNorthWest's Fragbox [but definitely cheaper]), maybe on a mini-ITX motherboard, just for this purpose, but also keep the components for PC gaming if I ever got into it. Just why, is this card so darn expensive when it came out in 2008 or 09?


Edited by SoAmusing777 - 12/10/12 at 7:23am
post #9554 of 23257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Might wanna rethink that. The Wii U uses LPCM, not Dolby Digital, as well as it not having an optical output.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=500865
The only way(s) to get virtual surround on the Wii U is most likely through receivers with HDMI inputs that convert multi-channel PCM to virtual surround. Probably Silent Cinema, and other non-DH surround.
I wonder what Astrogaming and other headset makers are gonna do with the Wii U.
This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital.

I know that's really a shame. Monster Hunter it moving off Play Station and onto Nintendo Systems FINALLY, but as awesome as that would b in 5.1 I doubt it will have support -.- 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

AUREAL MONSTER VORTEX 2 Sound Card PCI w/driver CD BA88DL30A-03 (New condition) - Somebody tell NamelessPFG I just picked this up :P I only got it due to some of his posts. Hard to find as well, quite rare. I did an Ebay, Amazon, All of Craigslist, and Google shopping search. This seemed to be the best option as it was the most recent card. I'll keep this handy for when I build my Windows 9x machine :D I'll need help getting the rest of the parts (not building it as I will have someone do that for me) as I do not know much about computers.

ooh sounds nice :D 

post #9555 of 23257

"This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital."

 

This would be awesome!!!!

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