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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 4/17/2014: AKG K612 and K712 Pro added + edits) - Page 553

post #8281 of 23047
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

YMMV indeed...did you ever try these videos on for size?





That's CMSS-3D Headphone at its positional best (CoD2 uses DirectSound3D IIRC, BF2 uses OpenAL, so it's getting proper 3D audio in both cases). It sounds like proper 3D binaural audio to me, not some cheap stereo upmix.

The first vid doesn't work, and the second vid... I'm GLAD the Mixamp is Dolby Headphone. CMSS3D sounds like expanded stereo to me. Even THX Tru Studio presents a better surround effect, IMHO. CMSS3D is marginally better than regular stereo, but if that's as good as it gets, I can't say I'll be recommending it to those that want virtual surround. It sounds like a headphone with expanded stereo, while Dolby Headphone actually sounds like sounds are coming from all around you. I'm actually very disappointed. It definitely does have a clarity in sound effects, but it lacks severely in immersing me in a full soundfield.

I want people to know right now, that my case for virtual surround sounds nothing like CMSS3D. If that is what I heard back when I first got the Mixamp, I'd probably just stick to stereo. I don't see it as much of an improvement. Night and day difference between CMSS3D vs DH, THX Trustudio, and the Headzone. (the last three are more similar than CMSS3D).

That vid reminds me of the old Russian ones I saw that had the DH comparisons. Didn't work for me then, doesn't now.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/13/12 at 4:53am
post #8282 of 23047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

No, that is the Mixamp 5.8 not being able to handle the bass when the bass boost is on. Turn it off. If you want more bass than the DT990, you're crazy, or just a basshead. Should've got the DT990 pros instead, though the Mixamp alone wouldn't have been sufficient.
If you want more bass for the DT990, and external amp with bass boost (like the E7, E11, E17), will add bass without that problem.

Thanks for the ridiculously fast reply lol.  

 

Good to know it's the Mixamp and not a cable.  I guess I'm just a basshead, because I swear with bass boost on the sound becomes deeper/fuller/better in some way...very hard to describe. There are a handful of games that don't have sound crackle (not sure if it depends on the game's sound mix) and bass boost makes them sound flat-out better to me. I may invest in an amp and see how it goes.  

post #8283 of 23047
Thread Starter 
It sounds fuller because you're boosting the lower frequencies. That would happen with any headphone. The lower end is what gives things fullness.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/13/12 at 6:02am
post #8284 of 23047

Just ordered an E7.  With me having no experience with amps, the E17 seemed a bit pricey to jump in on.  Thought about the E11 but my laptop's sound card is likely crap (2009 cheap laptop with stock card) so the E7's DAC should be of some use.  Interested to see the results.

post #8285 of 23047
Thread Starter 


Okay, so I like how the blue matte yoke and alluring looks with the black grills and pads.

This may be what I do if I decide on a MANUFAKTUR. I previously didn't even look at the blue, because the website makes it look purple-ish.

Okay to update from the comparisons between the 32ohm vs 250ohm Premiums.

Now with a clearer mind, and time to compare, I can see... the 250ohm does have a noticeable fullness that isn't there in the 32ohm. I mean they sound very similar, but the 250ohm has a tiny layer of warmth (especially in the bass) that is evident compared to the 32ohm. The bass has an assuring thump that is more or less less present in the 32ohm. The 32ohm's leaner bass makes the mids pop out more, no question (the 250ohm is more recessed), but the sound as a whole sounds more ever so slightly more refined in the 250ohm.

The 250ohm's sound is 'bigger'. Like the 32ohm has a slight congestion in comparison. It's more noticeable now than yesterday, but it's a definite difference. I mean, they both sound like 990s, but the 32ohm sounds... smaller, if that makes sense? The 32ohm has a dry tone compared to the 250ohm, which sounds more musical to me. Still, the 32ohm definitely highlights vocals more, more than likely due to the dryness of the sound, and less warmth in the bass.

I've been A/B-ing, and if I forget which I have on, I wouldn't be able to pick one out. Literally apples vs apples.

If you're gonna see yourself with a desktop amp, get the 250ohm. If you're trying to live with bare essentials, the 32ohm + Mixamp will be fine, and you'll want a portable amp if using voice chat.

As for right now, I think I'm leaning on the 250ohm (just barely, but I'm enjoying the slightly darker tone). The E17 sounds good with it for my PC, as well as with my Mixamp. For everything else, I guess the KSC35 will have to do, until I decide on a desktop amp.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/13/12 at 7:56am
post #8286 of 23047
Thread Starter 
I'd like to A/B the 250 and 600 ohm DT990s, but that'd mean I'd have to get a damn amp, which is something I don't wanna do right now. All I know is that the 250ohm definitely has the most bass out of the Premiums. The 32ohm and 600ohm have similar quantity of bass. The 250ohm has the warmest sound of the three, though with the least amount of mids. Again (I have to stress this), you'd have to have them side by side to tell the differences. Don't wreck your brain overthinking which is better because they're really too alike.

For the LAST time:

Portable amp? 32ohm (if you're ever thinking of upgrading to a desktop amp, may as well go for the 250ohm)
Entry-level desktop amp (E9K)? 250ohm (you can get away with this one with certain sources and a portable amp)
Audiophile desktop amp (Asgard, M-stage, and beyond)? 600ohm. (don't bother until you have something that outputs at least 100mw at 600ohm.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer12 View Post

Just ordered an E7.  With me having no experience with amps, the E17 seemed a bit pricey to jump in on.  Thought about the E11 but my laptop's sound card is likely crap (2009 cheap laptop with stock card) so the E7's DAC should be of some use.  Interested to see the results.

The E7 is a (DAC+ AMP) (a very weak amp which is basically the E5's amp, but should be ok for the 32ohm). However, the amp has EQ1, EQ2, EQ3 which are three levels of bass boost. EQ1 should be about similar as the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost in terms of bass, but better quality, and no distortion). The other two are incredibly sloppy and overwhelming (waaaaaaay too much bass that drowns out detail). If you're using an onboard soundcard now, the E7 will be better.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/13/12 at 7:02am
post #8287 of 23047

Hello there,

the thread looks of great help to me as I am confused with these nimber of virtual surround things.

   I recently bought a Tt esports Shock One gaming headset with DTS sensation surround technology.

I spent my 100$ on it, hoping to get serious surround. But when I play FPS games, all I get is Echo in surround sound. Seriously, I cannot tell which way the bullet is coming and where the grenade is coming from.

 

Do I need some dedicated sound card for this?? I have installed the drivers for headphones and turned the surround on. Please help! Tell me if any extra hardware is needed. 

 

About the headphones, I will say :--

1) Decent bass

2) Extremely comfortable (I wear glasses, now you may imagine how comfortable they are)

3) Clear Sound

4) BUT damn poor surround. Infact, it will be a shame to call it surround sound. It is simple echo.

 

http://www.flipkart.com/tt-esports-shock-headset-one/product-reviews/ITMD24Q7YNY3FHEA?pid=ACCD24Q5V2PQEETH&sort_order=most-recent

 

Review posted on 10th october 12 is mine.

 

I need to understand virtual surround in more depth and also, what all extra hardwares can  be used with my headsets (having DTS codecs) to obtain effective surround. If i install a DTS digital surround codec, or DTS neo codec, will I get effective surround that I want?? PLEASE HELP!!

post #8288 of 23047
Thread Starter 
This is why I don't bother with pc gaming. I'm betting you probably need the proper options turned on, and make sure the games you play support DTS or what have you, not to mention your soundcard. You can't just plug it in and expect it to work. You may wanna ask Nameless, over at the PC thread (linked on the very first post of this guide).
Quote:
3) Surround sound is available only through drivers, and only stereo is available if you don't run the drivers.
4) Surround is available only for Windows users. For MAC fans, all you have is stereo sound. May be you should start looking for something else by now.
6) It took me 3 days to figure out how to turn on Surround. you do need to UNINSTALL your Realtek HD audio drivers (or equivalent), so that your Tt drivers take full control over your headsets. Ensure that DTS surround sensation button is RED that is, it is turned on (just click on it if it isn't).







Hell, I had my NFB5 for months, and then I realized that I didn't change the options to accept anything over 16/44 or 16/48. The NFB5 accepts 24/96 and 24/192. All that time, I wasn't utilizing it at all... rolleyes.gif

Not that it matters, music is 16/44 or 16/48 anyways.




Man, I'm really struggling here, as to which I wanna keep, the 32 or 250? UGH. This is TOUGH. I wasn't kidding. They're too close to call. Each have their pros and cons. If I keep the 32ohm, then I don't need to buy ANYTHING else. If I keep the 250ohm, I'm gonna want a desktop amp, and this will make me feel like I'd better just spend the extra for the 600ohm.

Logic states I keep the 32ohm, and I'd be very happy with them. Saves me the money. Hell, maybe in the future, if/when I come back to this hobby in full force, I'll get the 600ohm and Audio-GD SA-31. I can keep the 32ohm as my easily driven alternative.

I realize that there's more of a difference with music than gaming. I tend to play more than listen to music. They literally sound alike for gaming through the Mixamp. Like identical really.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/13/12 at 8:31am
post #8289 of 23047
If you are set on getting the Manufaktur's, then I'd just keep the 32 ohm for now. You can get the manu's in 250 or higher later on when you save up.

Although another thought is for the same price as a Manufaktur (or cheaper), you can keep the 250 ohm and get a good desktop amp.
Edited by chroniX - 10/13/12 at 9:30am
post #8290 of 23047
Thread Starter 
Point is, I don't want a desktop amp, as I have to constantly move it from the bedroom to the living room. With the 32ohm, I'm just moving the E17 around.
post #8291 of 23047
I see, then it seems like 32 ohms would be best. Would you say that the 32 ohm reaches it's full potential with the E17, or would even the 32 ohm see an improvement with a desktop amp despite it's lower impedance?
post #8292 of 23047
Thread Starter 
I don't think it needs more than the E17. I had it (the first 32ohm 990 I had) paired up with the NFB5 which was feeding it 3.5watts(!) and is a much different beast than the E17. All you're looking forward to after the E17 is just whatever amp you hook it up to imparting it's own signature on the 990/32. In the case of the NFB5, it added body and warmth, and made the treble less screechy (an Audio-GD positive trait).

The 250ohm however could use more than the E17 for the certain sources, though from what I can tell, it'd still be within the 5% difference I spoke of.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/13/12 at 10:05am
post #8293 of 23047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

As far as my SOTD, I change it myself, though I get lazty, lol.
Certain soundcards won't do virtual surround through the RCA out, so you NEED to use the headphone jack into another amp. Not sure which do and which don't. RCA outs tend to be line out, which bypass the virtual surround processing, and you're stuck with stereo. Better to ask those who own said cards whether they do or don't.
Nain, plug your amp to the DSS with a 3.5mm to RCA cable. That's it. As far as volume, I'd actually max out the DSS to make sure you're getting the full resolution of sound. If the volume is too low, you'll lose information and dynamics. However, if the DSS clips at max volume, you may have to lower it a bit. All I know is that I don't have that probem with the two Mixamps I have owned and max them out.
Skullcandy has reach out to me to review a product(s). I wanna say yes, and they do happen to own Astrogaming, so I wonder if they'd send out an A30/A40/A*Star/new Mixamp. Or I wonder if they wanna send out something purely Skullcandy related. They reached out because I defended them on Engadget, as people keep bashing them needlessly when SC has been making great strides with their newer products.
Dunno whether to accept or decline, as I'm not a pro reviewer, and I focus on the gaming aspect of this hobby. frown.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chroniX View Post


Yep, this is the one I use: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2
Works great, no issues at all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

The only thing I don't like about that one, is that it's so stiff and bulky. Really high quality though. I just prefer a bit more flexibility/less bulkiness in my cables if I'm using portable devices. I go for monoprice when it comes to stationary interconnects, like from a desktop setup dac into an amp.
For a bit more, Amazon has this one...
http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Stereo-design-accomodates-smartphone/dp/B004YEBK66/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1350048233&sr=8-6&keywords=3.5mm+male+to+rca+male
A lot more pliable. Mediabridge makes good cables.


Thanks guys. :)

post #8294 of 23047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post
The first vid doesn't work, and the second vid... I'm GLAD the Mixamp is Dolby Headphone. CMSS3D sounds like expanded stereo to me. Even THX Tru Studio presents a better surround effect, IMHO. CMSS3D is marginally better than regular stereo, but if that's as good as it gets, I can't say I'll be recommending it to those that want virtual surround. It sounds like a headphone with expanded stereo, while Dolby Headphone actually sounds like sounds are coming from all around you. I'm actually very disappointed. It definitely does have a clarity in sound effects, but it lacks severely in immersing me in a full soundfield.
I want people to know right now, that my case for virtual surround sounds nothing like CMSS3D. If that is what I heard back when I first got the Mixamp, I'd probably just stick to stereo. I don't see it as much of an improvement. Night and day difference between CMSS3D vs DH, THX Trustudio, and the Headzone. (the last three are more similar than CMSS3D).
That vid reminds me of the old Russian ones I saw that had the DH comparisons. Didn't work for me then, doesn't now.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. (Sort of like our stances on PC gaming, heh.)

 

I don't know what it is between us-personal HRTF differences, probably-but for me, the two work roughly equally well for software-mixed games constrained to 7.1 to begin with, just with opposite tonal shifts. (CMSS-3D Headphone emphasizes treble, Dolby Headphone emphasizes bass.)

 

But when it's getting proper 3D positional audio, and Dolby Headphone is still handicapping itself by downmixing that audio to 7.1 first before applying any HRTF processing, it's no contest to me. DH could win if it made use of the 3D positional audio information in such games, but it doesn't. Still sounds like 5.1/7.1 when it should sound binaural, like real life. Quite a missed opportunity for Dolby Labs here, but I do wonder if the HRTF used would even work out if not used to simulate a home theater system specifically.

 

That's not to say that CMSS-3D Headphone is without its flaws; the hit to sound quality is pretty obvious. But for positioning, it's stellar. Front, rear, high, low, it's all there for me, with enough accuracy that I often call it an aural wallhack and would have reasonable confidence in being able to shoot someone through a wall if given the opportunity.

 

As for THX TruStudio Surround, it has no sense of distance and less directionality to me. It might impact sound quality a bit less, but positionally, it's utterly inferior to both CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone for me. Doesn't matter if I try it via Titanium HD Entertainment Mode or Recon3D USB; it just sounds constrained and flat.

 

The end result is that I'm going to be recommending X-Fi cards for PC gaming whenever possible because of CMSS-3D Headphone (and superior DS3D/OAL API support). If push comes to shove, though, you can always turn on Dolby Digital Live and get a Dolby Headphone processor. That's what I do when making my comparisons with the SU-DH1.

 

Actually...you want to see what PC games were doing in the late 1990s, when the whole 3D gaming craze spread to audio? Check out these videos with Aureal A3D HRTF processing.

 

Some people insist it still sounds better than anything Creative's done since, even with CMSS-3D Headphone likely borrowing from acquired Aureal tech as much as Sensaura tech. Quite a shame that Creative basically bankrupted and ate up Aureal with legal fees from lawsuits...gaming audio might be different today if they survived, probably for the better.

post #8295 of 23047
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Some people insist it still sounds better than anything Creative's done since, even with CMSS-3D Headphone likely borrowing from acquired Aureal tech as much as Sensaura tech. Quite a shame that Creative basically bankrupted and ate up Aureal with legal fees from lawsuits...gaming audio might be different today if they survived, probably for the better.

So you are the PC pro and I would like your input too. What can be done to maximize the gaming experience on a $250-$300 budget. MLE has been very helpful though I love gaming 10x more than music, what should I do to accomplish nirvana. Music to me is just something that keeps my mind from racing when I am doing something automatic like mowing the grass or changing my car's oil. I am sure these words are an abomination to audiophiles, so please do tell before I am banned from this site. 

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