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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 4/17/2014: AKG K612 and K712 Pro added + edits) - Page 1092

post #16366 of 22975
Sorry double post. Phone acting up
Edited by ethan7000 - 9/2/13 at 9:59am
post #16367 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I think after the revelation that is the MA900 for me, I won't be buying any other full sized headphone that doesn't match it's weight and comfort. So basically, unless Sony makes a higher end model with similar design (kind of like the F1, SA5000, Qualia) with an improved, but similar tonal balance, I don't have any real reason to upgrade from the MA900.

It is the everyday, well balanced, multi-purpose headphone for me.

Better sound is worthless if you're constantly missing the comfort of something cheaperthat still sounds great.

I put on my X1 for an hour, and then I just wanna go back to the MA900...
First time I remember hearing you mention this flaw of the X1. Interesting though.
You may recall, I found what I felt was perfect clamp with my AD700 with a rubber band between the rings, slight bend to the headband bars, and breaking in of the earpads. So I understand what you say about comfort (and soundstage) being very significant for you, after I got the Q701 I liked them but I had a hard time letting the AD700 go just because of comfort (and ease of amping setup... Didn't need an extra one). In the end though, slight improvement in SQ won out for me, and that thing I'm still not sure where from it comes but that toe-tapping feeling of rhythm or just the... I dunno, soul of the song? More involving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

...
Regardless, even if the MA900s were more comfortable, the sound quality improvement on the others would still be worth it for me, as their comfort is already amazing and more than enough.  I can (and already did - for science) use the K712s for 8 hours straight with no issues - isn't that good enough?

...
The slightly peak and edgy mids on the Anniversary was one of the main things that pushed me towards the K712.   When comparing them, I could hear the K712s were a bit less dry and peaky in that area.  Once I'd heard that I couldn't un-hear it.  I know the edgier mids can be nice with female vocals, but overall I prefer the K712's approach. 

The were a couple other things on the K712 that won me over, like the the greater overall body to the sound, the slightly more natural timbre and less fatiguing overall sound, and the deeper pads with their extra comfort the slightly more open sound.  I I made a pros & cons list, and the last holdout for the Anniversary was the more forward air.  If I could have the K712s signature with greater air, it would be awesome, but I can't.  I got over it though. 

If you like 'em so much, do more testing. For Science.
You monster.

So I see comparisons to the Annies with the K712. How about the Q701? Peaky mids? Natural Timbre? How about "roundness" of the soundstage, does the depth of the soundstage extend out in front of you evenly with the sides, or is it still kinda oval like the Q701 (vs the AD700, and I guess the MA900)?
post #16368 of 22975
Thread Starter 
Nah, i mentioned the X1's bass being borderline uncomfortable to me before. I wasn't exactly vocal about it, but after having neglected it for a few weeks and jumping back into it, the the bass headaches just started coming in. I'm sure you've seen me mention the same about the Q701 and 990 Pro before. It just happens to me with varying headphones. The worst offender was the Koss UR40. Jesus man. I couldn't use it for more than a few minutes before I wanted to chuck them acorss the room. The DT770/600ohm I got was nearly as bad. It hurt my head almost immediately. I just have a real horrible sensitivity to certain bass frequencies.


To be fair, even the MA900 causes some of the same fatigue.
post #16369 of 22975

I had this with the Signature DJ. While being so much more better than the Pro 900 and a bassier Sig Pro the bass somehow overpowered me in the end in some regions across its spectrum. It was pretty good for games albeit the smaller soundstage than the Fostex but that bass annoyed me very soon. Sold it today.

 

While TH-900 can slam very hard as well the bass is fast, very detailed and has a "shape". It's never annoying. 

Same for the HD 800 except it slams less but has a very detailed bass section that extends very deep.

post #16370 of 22975

Thanks for this great review. I've been reading about the MA900 for a while now, and it seems they are just what I've been looking for.

 

I only have one question... I was thinking of getting a Modmic or something else with these, will there be a problem with the mic picking up the sound leakeage?

post #16371 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
I notice that sharpness as well on the MA900. The MA900 seems to have some grain in the upper midrange and treble.

 

That may explain the relative lack of transparency.

 

But at least the grain isn't noticeably over the vocals, in my experience-something the HE-400 and SR-202 suffer from, as I've stated numerous times.

post #16372 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

That may explain the relative lack of transparency.

 

But at least the grain isn't noticeably over the vocals, in my experience-something the HE-400 and SR-202 suffer from, as I've stated numerous times.


Yea, I noticed a lack of transparency too and the upper registers are likely the cause, probably my biggest complaint about the sound, otherwise fantastic headphones and my go to headphone for games, movies, and long-term music listening due to comfort, laid-back sound, great soundstage, imaging, and linearity.

 

I didn't like the HE-400 when I heard it, would rather get the K702 Annie/K712 or HD 600/650 for that price.


Edited by kman1211 - 9/2/13 at 3:41pm
post #16373 of 22975

Great review MLE!  

I like the term "absolute comfort legend". normal_smile%20.gif

 

 

I personally thought the Anniversaries were more fun and immersive for gaming as they had greater body and were more grounded sounding.  The MA900s sounded a tad thin and floaty.  I do think MA900 is a more immersive than the Q701 in terms of signature, but not quite on par with the greater bodied Anniversary.   Another thing I noticed with them being so open is that they seem to lack some of the decay, reverb, and ambience of "sealed" headphones - which detracted from their immersion some.  Less ambience meant I felt a bit more detachment from the physical spaces and rooms in a game.  I agree that the mids are a highlight on the MA900, but I personally found them to almost be too much of a focus.  The X1s achieve a fun and immersive sound by pushing their mids back just a bit to open up room for other things and create some of that "U" shaped home theater sound.  The MA900s have more difficulty with that as the mids are always forward, always clear sounding, and can't be ignored.  I think too much midrange can hurt immersion in the same way that too much bass can hurt competitive gaming. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post


I notice that sharpness as well on the MA900. The MA900 seems to have some grain in the upper midrange and treble.

 

It could be some of the grain gets abrasive sounding, but I think there was actually a bit of glare somewhere too.  There was a specific spot that would jump out louder than on my other headphones and would sometimes limit how loud I could turn up the MA900.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

If you like 'em so much, do more testing. For Science.
You monster.

So I see comparisons to the Annies with the K712. How about the Q701? Peaky mids? Natural Timbre? How about "roundness" of the soundstage, does the depth of the soundstage extend out in front of you evenly with the sides, or is it still kinda oval like the Q701 (vs the AD700, and I guess the MA900)?

 

The Q701 has drier peakier mids than the Anniversary, which in turn has drier peakier mids than the K712.  The main issue with the Q701s timbre is the mids being a bit too thin and dry.   The Anniversary fixes that some and gives them greater body and smoothness.  The K712 takes it slightly further, but not too much.  I personally prefer the timbre on both the Anniversary and K712 to the Q701.  Between the Anniversary and K712, a slight edge to the K712.

 

The K712 doesn't change the soundstage too much.  I think it will still be oval shaped.  I can't remember the AD700s soundstage depth.  I thought the MA900 was oval shaped too.  Depth is tricky to pull of.  The T1s and HD800s had nice depth tongue.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3rnity View Post

I only have one question... I was thinking of getting a Modmic or something else with these, will there be a problem with the mic picking up the sound leakeage?

 

I doubt you will have any problems as the mic will be out in front, not behind the headphones where leakage is the highest.


Edited by chicolom - 9/2/13 at 4:35pm
post #16374 of 22975

This is probably a stupid question, but has anyone here used their headphone system with a Nintendo Wii? I've been using the Wii with the built-in speakers on my TV since forever and I'm actually pretty curious to see how it sounds with my headphones.

post #16375 of 22975
Thread Starter 
I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.
post #16376 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.

 

^This

 

I use the rca inputs with my cable box to watch sports sometimes. Not as good as the digital version but well enough to still enjoy surround sound to make you feel like your at the ballpark.

post #16377 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

Great review MLE!  

I like the term "absolute comfort legend". normal_smile%20.gif

 

 

I personally thought the Anniversaries were more fun and immersive for gaming as they had greater body and were more grounded sounding.  The MA900s sounded a tad thin and floaty.  I do think MA900 is a more immersive than the Q701 in terms of signature, but not quite on par with the greater bodied Anniversary.   Another thing I noticed with them being so open is that they seem to lack some of the decay, reverb, and ambience of "sealed" headphones - which detracted from their immersion some.  Less ambience meant I felt a bit more detachment from the physical spaces and rooms in a game.  I agree that the mids are a highlight on the MA900, but I personally found them to be a bit too much of a focus.  The X1s achieve a fun and immersive sound by pushing their mids back just a bit to open up room for other things and create some of that "U" shaped home theater sound.  The MA900s have more difficulty with that as the mids are always forward, always clear sounding, and can't be ignored.  I think too much midrange can hurt immersion in the same way that too much bass can hurt competitive gaming. 

 

 

It could be some of the grain gets abrasive sounding, but I think there was actually a bit of glare somewhere too.  There was a specific spot that would jump out louder than on my other headphones and would sometimes limit how loud I could turn up the MA900.

 

 

 

The Q701 has drier peakier mids than the Anniversary, which in turn has drier peakier mids than the K712.  The main issue with the Q701s timbre is the mids being a bit too thin and dry.   The Anniversary fixes that some and gives them greater body and smoothness.  The K712 takes it slightly further, but not too much.  I personally prefer the timbre on both the Anniversary and K712 to the Q701.  Between the Anniversary and K712, a slight edge to the K712.

 

The K712 doesn't change the soundstage too much.  I think it will still be oval shaped.  I can't remember the AD700s soundstage depth.  I thought the MA900 was oval shaped too.  Depth is tricky to pull of.  The T1s and HD800s had nice depth tongue.gif

 

 

 

I doubt you will have any problems as the mic will be out in front, not behind the headphones where leakage is the highest.


True, they do seem to have some glare, so maybe it's the combination of glare and grain that gives them a bit of an edge at times.

 

I really want to get the K712 sometime, I always loved the AKG sound and found they tend to have great timbre. I agree the Q701 is a bit too thin sounding, and it has an unfocused center soundstage. I would love something fairly similar to the thick luscious sound the K240 has but better, the K712 seems like best option in terms of an upgrade in the AKG camp. Going to wait until the price drops and I can actually afford it.

 

I noticed depth is hard to pull off and it's something I noticed Sennheiser tends to do well. The T1 did have some nice depth, so did the HD 800, sadly every time I heard the HD 800, it gave me a headache and inner ear pain, so I have to cross it off my list for when I eventually get an uber.


Edited by kman1211 - 9/2/13 at 4:41pm
post #16378 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.

 

^This

 

I use the rca inputs with my cable box to watch sports sometimes. Not as good as the digital version but well enough to still enjoy surround sound to make you feel like your at the ballpark.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.

Hm mmk. I was just going to try plugging the RCA cables to the SRS-2170. XD

My TV is dead at the moment, so I'll have to hook it up to something else.

post #16379 of 22975
Maybe the K712 price will drop, but I'd need it closer to $300 before I'll consider it. I'm curious, but I know I don't have the need. Still wish I could try the DT880, I wonder about the transparency and treble. And comfort.
post #16380 of 22975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Maybe the K712 price will drop, but I'd need it closer to $300 before I'll consider it. I'm curious, but I know I don't have the need. Still wish I could try the DT880, I wonder about the transparency and treble. And comfort.

 

The lowest I've seen the Anniversaries go for brand new was $350 at Razordog so I doubt the K712 goes lower. Maybe a couple years from now...

 

If used then I can see that price being available a few months from now. The lowest AE I've seen in the forums is $325. Going rate I guess. BTW, local buyer bought mine for that price today. YAY!!! biggrin.gif

 

I have seen a K712 for $375 in the classifieds, lately...


Edited by Change is Good - 9/2/13 at 4:51pm
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