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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 4/17/2014: AKG K612 and K712 Pro added + edits) - Page 9

post #121 of 23112
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.

Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.

 

I can see where this might be the case with headphones, or a 2-speaker stereo setup with sound processing enabled (Pro-Logic for example), but having a full blown 5.1 or 7.1 setup running on 6 or 8 discrete channels ( Dolby Digital/DTS) is not a gimmick in the slightest.  Where stereo only mimics a 3d sound field, a properly setup 5.1 or 7.1 system actually reproduces one. 

post #122 of 23112


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku540 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by misformatt View Post

Do you use your PRO 900's with Dolby Headphone?  I tried DH with mine, but the results were inconsistent and not as precise as straight stereo.  I've only tried it with a couple of PC fps (Bad Company 2 and Team Fortress 2), but I wasn't impressed with the precision of the sound stage/placement.  I chalked it up to the offset drivers, but others have reported positive results with the pairing.  I'm just curious what your experience (and that of others) has been with the pairing.


I use them with the Astro Mixamp, and the results are phenominal. If anything the offset drivers work in favor of this combo. Sure it lacks the airiness of an open headphone, but all the space is there. I think it highly depends on what kind of virtual surround you are using; I have heard terrible things about a lot of PC virtual surround but I think it completely depends on the sound card. My sound card isn't that great so I just use the Mixamp for everything, and it does an excellent job.

I've got an HT-Omega Claro Halo with upgraded opamps on my PC.  I would assume its Dolby Headphone algorithm is the same as that of the Mixamp, but there could be some native tweaks on either unit I suppose.  I'll give DH another shot on my PRO 900s and report back.

post #123 of 23112


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

The only headsets that will allow voice chat on the DSS are the Turtle Beach headsets.

 

For everything else, you're screwed unless you buy the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer.

 

http://steelseries.com/products/consoles/steelseries-spectrum-audio-mixer-xb

 

For the price of the DSS and the Audio Mixer, you could've just gotten the Mixamp or AX720. The DSS + Audio Mixer is a cluttered mess.


Yep, that's the drawback of the Ear Force DSS.  For me however, that isn't an issue.  If I use the DSS with my PC, I just use my normal clip mic.  If I use it with my PS3, I use my bluetooth headset as my mic. 

 

It's not as fully featured as the Mixamp, but I really like the sound quality of the DSS and that is most important to me.

post #124 of 23112
Quote:
Originally Posted by misformatt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.

Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.

 

I can see where this might be the case with headphones, or a 2-speaker stereo setup with sound processing enabled (Pro-Logic for example), but having a full blown 5.1 or 7.1 setup running on 6 or 8 discrete channels ( Dolby Digital/DTS) is not a gimmick in the slightest.  Where stereo only mimics a 3d sound field, a properly setup 5.1 or 7.1 system actually reproduces one. 

 

Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  What 7.1/5.1 setups do is allow sounds to reach your ears at different times so your brain tells you which direction it is coming from.  Dolby Headphone uses many different calculations to simulate what your brain hears when sound arrives at different times.  Game audio isn't really the best, but some games are perfectly fine in stereo only in terms of how they relay distance and direction to your brain.  

 

Me personally I'm ready for some binaural games to get released.  That would increase immersion far more than any graphical advances that have come about this console generation.  Graphical improvements are pretty much at an end for PC and console until consoles get new hardware, so I think improving audio is the way to milk the last bit of advancement out of this console generation. 

 

Hopefully some of that actually made sense. 

post #125 of 23112


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by misformatt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.

Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.

 

I can see where this might be the case with headphones, or a 2-speaker stereo setup with sound processing enabled (Pro-Logic for example), but having a full blown 5.1 or 7.1 setup running on 6 or 8 discrete channels ( Dolby Digital/DTS) is not a gimmick in the slightest.  Where stereo only mimics a 3d sound field, a properly setup 5.1 or 7.1 system actually reproduces one. 

 

Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  What 7.1/5.1 setups do is allow sounds to reach your ears at different times so your brain tells you which direction it is coming from.  Dolby Headphone uses many different calculations to simulate what your brain hears when sound arrives at different times.  Game audio isn't really the best, but some games are perfectly fine in stereo only in terms of how they relay distance and direction to your brain.  

 

Me personally I'm ready for some binaural games to get released.  That would increase immersion far more than any graphical advances that have come about this console generation.  Graphical improvements are pretty much at an end for PC and console until consoles get new hardware, so I think improving audio is the way to milk the last bit of advancement out of this console generation. 

 

Hopefully some of that actually made sense. 



I agree!  Binaural is the way to go.  To someone like me, who is obsessed with gaming audio, that would be the holy grail.  A completely seamless, 3D soundscape that mimics the way real sound waves hit your ears.

 

post #126 of 23112
Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5494 View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by misformatt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.

Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.

 

I can see where this might be the case with headphones, or a 2-speaker stereo setup with sound processing enabled (Pro-Logic for example), but having a full blown 5.1 or 7.1 setup running on 6 or 8 discrete channels ( Dolby Digital/DTS) is not a gimmick in the slightest.  Where stereo only mimics a 3d sound field, a properly setup 5.1 or 7.1 system actually reproduces one. 

 

Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  What 7.1/5.1 setups do is allow sounds to reach your ears at different times so your brain tells you which direction it is coming from.  Dolby Headphone uses many different calculations to simulate what your brain hears when sound arrives at different times.  Game audio isn't really the best, but some games are perfectly fine in stereo only in terms of how they relay distance and direction to your brain.  

 

Me personally I'm ready for some binaural games to get released.  That would increase immersion far more than any graphical advances that have come about this console generation.  Graphical improvements are pretty much at an end for PC and console until consoles get new hardware, so I think improving audio is the way to milk the last bit of advancement out of this console generation. 

 

Hopefully some of that actually made sense. 



I agree!  Binaural is the way to go.  To someone like me, who is obsessed with gaming audio, that would be the holy grail.  A completely seamless, 3D soundscape that mimics the way real sound waves hit your ears.

 


I think they're getting there with the different types of sound occlusion they are putting into games.  Really nothing can touch Bad Company 2 in terms of sound quality.  That game just sounds good.  Black ops in comparison sounds like it's coming from a tin can.  Developers need to take note of what DICE did and get with the program.  

post #127 of 23112
Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  What 7.1/5.1 setups do is allow sounds to reach your ears at different times so your brain tells you which direction it is coming from.  Dolby Headphone uses many different calculations to simulate what your brain hears when sound arrives at different times.  Game audio isn't really the best, but some games are perfectly fine in stereo only in terms of how they relay distance and direction to your brain.  

 

Me personally I'm ready for some binaural games to get released.  That would increase immersion far more than any graphical advances that have come about this console generation.  Graphical improvements are pretty much at an end for PC and console until consoles get new hardware, so I think improving audio is the way to milk the last bit of advancement out of this console generation. 

 

Hopefully some of that actually made sense. 

I haven't heard the top-tier surround emulators (Smyth Realiser, Beyer Headzone), but Dolby Headphone doesn't come close to conveying the same sense of directionality as a full 5.1 speaker setup, personally speaking of course.  I've heard some great stereo setups, but none that gave me the sensation that sound was actually being emitted directly behind or beside me.  I would think headphones would have an advantage over a two-speaker setup when it came to this, as they have the ability to fire at your entire ear.  And yes, of course we only have two ears, but that doesn't mean two speakers alone will be able to accurately convey the distance and complexity of 8 discrete channels of audio.  Dolby Headphone does an admirable job of mimicking that timing, but it certainly does not trump a discrete system.  In addition, high-end systems like the Smyth and Beyer I mentioned use head tracking to simulate where the sound should be directed towards given changes in your head positioning.  Perhaps that is the greatest advantage those sets have in simulating a full blown surround setup? 

 

Binaural games would rock my socks, though.  L3000.gif
 


Edited by misformatt - 1/20/11 at 4:00pm
post #128 of 23112

I've pretty much made my conclusion for the HFI-580's but I felt I should probably also ask the opinions in a thread full of head-fi gamers x]

 

I'm looking for gaming headphones, with a great soundstage/3dpositioning (course), clear mids/highs, good amount of punchy/fun bass, can be driven well unamped and with good sound isolation/no sound leaks.

For all these purposes, the PRO900 seemingly fit them well, however they are reported to leak sounds just as the PRO550's do (which I've had experience with, and leaked far too much).. That is unless they can be modded to avoid sound leaks without affecting quality, I will definitely have to go with another choice as the leak consideration for me is more critical than most users.

 

The only other headphones I've been considering is the Denon D1100's, and possibly the AKG 271MK2 (If they can be modded for great bass, as I recently read they may be able to)

 

Was hoping to get some gamer opinions x]

post #129 of 23112

I can confirm that the PRO 900's leak a bit when listening to music loud, however since gaming is a bit different I'm not sure how sound leaks in comparison. I should have some friends over in the next few days and I'll do some tests.

post #130 of 23112

Mad Lust Envy.  I command you to test the hd650's out with dolby headphone.  Now.  smily_headphones1.gif

post #131 of 23112

Command! Wow, I love commands; they excite my dictatorial spirit.   very_evil_smiley.gif

post #132 of 23112


I saw someone with 7.1 ears in Star Trek Voyager once.  tongue.gif

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay

 

Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  

post #133 of 23112

I thought it was a good idea to pick up the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer but boy was I wrong. There was A LOT of hum when I plugged in the USB for the power. I tried different sources and different USB power sources but still got static/hum. Sure, you won't notice it when the game audio is being blasted but that wasn't the reason I bought it for, in dead silence that hum will over power anything you're actually listening for i.e. footsteps. It's like they forgot to add shielding to the cable or something. I will be returning it this weekend. One thing I did like about it was that the game and voice volume dials are seperate whereas on the mixamp is just volume and cross fader. 

post #134 of 23112

sorry if this was asked before.

 

Mad Lust, do you have your mixamp connected to your e7/e9 or you use them separately?

post #135 of 23112

I got the HD-598 in today and burned them in for about 3 hours while I was out. Probably no point, but I did anyway. For gaming I'm quite impressed! I'd say for gaming they're better than the K240 Studio, K702 and my DJ100. I found this interesting test in one of my games.. one of the NPCs was carrying a torch around and anytime I moved they would follow me. On my K702 no matter how close it was it sounded about twice as far away as any other headphone. Not accurate at all for some reason. On the HD-598 I did some silly test where I'd close my eyes and walk around and guess where the torch was and how close it was. Nearly every time I could pinpoint the exact location so easily. Not a big deal, but I found this interesting. It's far easier to figure how how close everything is compared to other headphones. The soundstage seems nearly as good as the HD-600, but I no longer have the HD-600. The soundstage on the HD-555 is so bad in comparison to the new HD-598.

 

Imaging isn't as good as my DJ100, but pretty close. Level of detail is also lower on the HD-598 by far compared to the DJ100, but still pretty good. The level of detail compared to other Sennheiser's I've tried is pretty good, it seems much higher. As it is right now, it doesn't feel like the typical Sennheiser headphone at all. It doesn't feel "laid back" in any way and it doesn't seem to have that "veil". For those that normally dislike Sennheiser stuff, this might be a good one to try. Maybe to give them a second chance like I did. Still love the HD-600 though. I have a feeling the HD-598 would be even better than the HD-600 for gaming.

 

I was also surprised at how much brighter it is than any of the other Sennheiser headphones i've had. Brightly mastered recordings that normally are annoying to my ears still sound bad on the HD-598 and they don't try to "fix" it, which is nice. The HD-600 I had seemed to try and do that sometimes by making the songs easier on the ears.

 

I don't feel as if these are bass light and I don't get why people say that. The amount of bass is fine for me. Mids seems very good and very, very slightly forward. I checked the frequency graph on headroom's site and it doesn't look like what my ears hear. It's a bit strange. If I recall it made the headphones look like they had recessed upper mids?!

 

Obviously they can't even remotely compare to the ATH-AD2000, but that's too be expected. The mids are MUCH more forward (colored) on the ATH-AD2000, which is nice for gaming and it doesn't get old. Level of details is much higher and footsteps are so much easier to hear. Soundstage is also much larger, but I think the imaging may be very slightly worse on the ATH-AD2000. Maybe not and I'd have to test that.

 

For those that are on a budget, I'd seriously suggest the HD-598 for gaming. For competitive gaming the AD700 might be better, but I'm not sure. HD-598 would probably be better for those that want a more portable headphone that's also very good for music.

 

Still hate the color. It reminds me of those old yellow stained computers you'd see when too much air and sunlight after years and years. Turned the white into an ugly yellowish white.  The color is just plain awful to me. Who wants a headphone to look like the interior of a car? Not me. They should offer them in black. I also don't understand why they don't have a 3.55m jack instead. Seems like that's more common these days.

 

Definitely not worth the full $250 I think. Not a chance. Especially considering I'm a bit worried about the build quality. Even the cable feels cheap. I got them for $175, so it's not so bad. I think they're worth that. Comfort is also pretty good, but nothing special. There is a bit of clamping force, even for my small head.

 

They're even very good for music. I prefer my DJ100 for most music and it's more portable and has more bass. The HD-598 does do many things a lot better due to it's open design. I've found the 598 not all that easy to drive. On my Ipod Touch I had to set the volume to nearly 90-95%. I almost always use a desktop amp though. My KRK, DJ100 and ATH-AD2000 have far more detail for sure, but it's not a big deal. I just don't think you'll be picking up any recording hiss on the HD-598, but might be a plus! I actually wasn't sure if the HD-598 was a keeper, but I do think it is for sure.

 

I still think that for gamers that want the absolute best gaming headphone regardless of price, the ATH-AD2000 is worth every penny, but I myself would never pay more than $550 for a new pair. I believe they're $400-$475 used.

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