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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 4/17/2014: AKG K612 and K712 Pro added + edits) - Page 707

post #10591 of 23241
Can anyone tell me if there is a difference if any between the Sony GWD-FW900 and its HP counter part? I'm thinking of maybe buying one since I need a "new" monitor anyway. I've seen refurbed Sony models for ~$350. There's also the HP one going for ~$250.

Another question, will using an hdmi-to-VGA yield refresh rates higher than 60hz when used on ps3, or will it just be a waste of time?


Never mind, I think nameless answered my question. I think I'm going to need an hdfury adapder
Edited by Roger de Ceiba - 1/7/13 at 5:42pm
post #10592 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger de Ceiba View Post

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference if any between the Sony GWD-FW900 and its HP counter part? I'm thinking of maybe buying one since I need a "new" monitor anyway. I've seen refurbed Sony models for ~$350. There's also the HP one going for ~$250.
Another question, will using an hdmi-to-VGA yield refresh rates higher than 60hz when used on ps3, or will it just be a waste of time?
Never mind, I think nameless answered my question. I think I'm going to need an hdfury adapder
The GDM-FW900 has been rebadged a few times, but the chassis (FD Trinitron G1W) is still the same, so they are practically the same monitor.

I don't think the PS3 natively outputs 120 Hz at all unless it's outputting a stereoscopic 3D signal. Even then, the FW900 can't handle 1080p at 120 Hz; 100 Hz is doable at that res, but you'd have to drop to 1600x900 or less to get 120 Hz. (Not like most PS3 games even run at 60 FPS or more these days; it's usually 30 FPS. Only PC games tend to run visibly over 60 FPS.)

Those prices seem reasonable; just make sure they don't have color balance or focus issues like most FD Trinitron monitors these days. Convergence problems can be solved with a USB TTL cable and WinDAS.
post #10593 of 23241
Thread Starter 
I actually think its running two 30hz signals...ps3 I mean.
post #10594 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

I thought I explained the Wacom thing clearly enough. Perhaps it would be easier to demonstrate it first-hand.

 

OLED is a promising display tech for sure, but as I said, the native resolutions mean that everything has to be scaled or processed to that resolution, which adds a bit of input lag and forces you to choose between 1:1 (or 2:1 for really low resolutions) pixel mapping that leaves a lot of unused screen space, or a stretched image that has scaling artifacts (or, worse, does not take different aspect ratios into account).

 

Yeah, what I meant by the CRT resolution thing is that you feed it 240p, and if it can sync to the signal, you get 240p. (It won't be mistaken for 480i, either; that trips up a lot of video processors.) You feed it 1080p, you get 1080p. This direct display process also helps keep the input lag down.

 

The GDM-FW900, being a professional PC graphics monitor (these things cost $2,500 brand new!), has the typical DE-15 VGA port and a set of five BNC connectors for its second input. Different physical jacks, but still RGBHV interfaces (as well as RGsB, because Sony loves sync-on-green for some reason).

 

I don't use it with my consoles at the moment because, like most VGA monitors, it cannot sync to 240p RGB signals (15 KHz horizontal sync, whereas most VGA monitors only accept 31 KHz at minimum), and component video requires a Y/Pr/Pb to RGB transcoder. HDMI would require an HDFury, as I've discussed before.

 

However, I do have a planned workaround in installing a video capture card in my PC and using software with said card to view the captured video in real-time. This adds a bit of input lag, but I could record and stream my console games with ease. Even then, I could get around the input lag by adding a video splitter of some sort. (More reason to get an HDFury, I suppose, since later revisions do output both HDCP-free HDMI and VGA simultaneously.)


 Never questioned that. Lol. It was great description. I guess, but, isn't that a moot point when the refresh rate is something insane? The pixel mapping/stretched image is no good though. Right. Hmm, so what do u use it for then?

post #10595 of 23241
Nameless,
Sony "loves" the green channel so much because it carries the most luminance data in an RGB signal. That's why all "Bayer Pattern" camera sensors are GRGB, only 2 camera sensor manufacturers use something different.

Higher refresh rates are moot for consoles, honestly I prefer 24 fps for movies over the higher stuff you see in soap operas and the new 48fps movie, The Hobbit (which is otherwise a great movie IMO, even for a huge fan of the book like me. Peter Jackson drew out some of the fight/escape scenes more than necessary though). HDTVs featuring higher than 60hz are just advertising useless marketing fluff. Display Port (and the related thunderbolt) are the way to go for computer monitors though.

Anyone know a good choice for an Xbox VGA cable? I noticed that on most of the 3rd party cables, people complain about ghosting problems.
post #10596 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


He puts too much stock on cables, saying 30 dollar printer style cables that aren't garbage. You gotta be kidding me.
Also I disagree about bass heavy headphones not pairing up well with the Magni. I think the clean sound it puts out helps bass heavy headphones which tend to muck up details. If anything, I woild stay away from treble heavy cans, as the Schiit stack is slightly treble heavy. It pairs up better with smooth headphones.


MLE or anyone else with the first hand knowledge,

 

Would you say the Magni will be good for the Q701/K702 Annie if its paired w/ the Mixamp Pro 2013 (and its includes EQs)?  I currently have the HD598 (love them but trying to get more bass and keep competitive score high) and just got the DT990 prem, 250ohm and Q701 to test w/ my AVR (Pioneer's Phones surround mode) as well as the E11.  The Mixamp Pro, Magni, and the Annie are all in transit w/ ETA of end of the week for even more testing.  I want to be sure I get the most favorable and enjoyable experience for PS3 Games and Movies exclusively.  Thanks to all for helping out this lurker. k701smile.gif

post #10597 of 23241

Well, I just want the best picture possible. If I'm not mistaken, higher refresh rates are usually wanted for gaming in order to avoid ghosting and lag. Refresh rates and frames per second are independent of each other anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post



I don't think the PS3 natively outputs 120 Hz at all unless it's outputting a stereoscopic 3D signal. Even then, the FW900 can't handle 1080p at 120 Hz; 100 Hz is doable at that res, but you'd have to drop to 1600x900 or less to get 120 Hz. (Not like most PS3 games even run at 60 FPS or more these days; it's usually 30 FPS. Only PC games tend to run visibly over 60 FPS.)
 

Like you said most ps3 games run at 30fps. Still, I think a higher refresh rate will provide an image with a higher fidelity, correct?

 

I wansn't able to extrapolate whether I would need the hdfury from this post or not. Maybe I'm just mentally exhausted, I need a rest...

post #10598 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

REALLY? Hmm... looks like the HE-400 is on it's way out, hahaha. I won't be able to resist at that price point.
Boricua, representando. wink.gif
Rio Piedras, baby.

Orly? Guaynabo here, que es la que? tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

Schiit Magni/Modi Review:
http://www.headfonia.com/schitty-magni-and-modi/

So many things in that review that make you go hmmm...
Edited by Impulse - 1/7/13 at 9:49pm
post #10599 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger de Ceiba View Post

Well, I just want the best picture possible. If I'm not mistaken, higher refresh rates are usually wanted for gaming in order to avoid ghosting and lag. Refresh rates and frames per second are independent of each other anyway.

Two different things yes, but they do interact in a way. I don't think a higher refresh rate is much of a boon if it's just refreshing the same frame over and over because the game's running at very low fps.

I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about current gen consoles since I'm mostly into PC gaming these days, but when someone on that end gets a true 120Hz display it's usually with the intention of running the game at well over a constant 60fps.

Then you've got vsync and all that, no clue how consoles handle that tho I imagine it's more standardized since most games push the hardware pretty hard and there's less variety of display configurations.
post #10600 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post
Never questioned that. Lol. It was great description. I guess, but, isn't that a moot point when the refresh rate is something insane? The pixel mapping/stretched image is no good though. Right. Hmm, so what do u use it for then?

 

Isn't it obvious? The GDM-FW900 is my primary PC monitor. Only a PC would really take advantage of its capabilities anyway. (2304x1440 at 80 Hz, and lower resolutions at up to 160 Hz, should give you an idea of why it's so sought-after.)

 

Getting consoles hooked up to it just happens to be a side bonus. No need to waste money on an HDTV when the FW900 could do the job.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post
Nameless,
Sony "loves" the green channel so much because it carries the most luminance data in an RGB signal. That's why all "Bayer Pattern" camera sensors are GRGB, only 2 camera sensor manufacturers use something different.
Higher refresh rates are moot for consoles, honestly I prefer 24 fps for movies over the higher stuff you see in soap operas and the new 48fps movie, The Hobbit (which is otherwise a great movie IMO, even for a huge fan of the book like me. Peter Jackson drew out some of the fight/escape scenes more than necessary though). HDTVs featuring higher than 60hz are just advertising useless marketing fluff. Display Port (and the related thunderbolt) are the way to go for computer monitors though.
Anyone know a good choice for an Xbox VGA cable? I noticed that on most of the 3rd party cables, people complain about ghosting problems.

 

Heh, camera sensor discussion...brings to mind all those Bayer vs. Foveon arguments. Too bad that Foveon sensors are only used by Sigma (with very few exceptions), and Sigma's DSLR offerings are hideously expensive, still behind in a few areas compared to the competition, and worst of all, use a proprietary SA lens mount, as if we didn't have enough competition between Canon EF, Pentax K, and whatever Nikon's using right now.

 

I thought that part of the reason green was favored to begin with, including giving it an extra bit of data over the red and blue channels with current RGB standards, is that the human eye is naturally more sensitive to green than the other additive primaries. Probably an instinctual thing for finding plants and whatnot.

 

Indeed, higher refresh rates are moot for consoles that were designed around 60 Hz displays anyway. PCs can get away with it because their performance isn't really fixed due to their nature, and also because PC CRT monitors were generally designed to run higher than 60 Hz. The best ones can max out at 160 Hz (most FD Trinitrons like the FW900), or even 180 Hz (certain Diamondtron NFs that I don't immediately recall at the moment).

 

I have no comments on Xbox 360 VGA cables; all I recall is that while Microsoft did offer an official one at launch, people complained about the brightness being way too high. I don't know if they fixed that in the numerous firmware overhauls they've released since.

 

As for how good higher refresh rates look, that really depends. Movies work differently than video games, the latter of which ALWAYS look better with higher framerates, especially when most games don't have any form of motion blur that obscures the jarring transitions between frames. Movie cameras obviously have the motion blur, so it looks more natural.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post
Two different things yes, but they do interact in a way. I don't think a higher refresh rate is much of a boon if it's just refreshing the same frame over and over because the game's running at very low fps.
I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about current gen consoles since I'm mostly into PC gaming these days, but when someone on that end gets a true 120Hz display it's usually with the intention of running the game at well over a constant 60fps.
Then you've got vsync and all that, no clue how consoles handle that tho I imagine it's more standardized since most games push the hardware pretty hard and there's less variety of display configurations.

 

You struck the nail on the head with that underlined bit. The real benefit to be had is when the game in question is already running at over 60 FPS. It's pretty easy to do if you're a hardcore Quake or Unreal Tournament player with today's hardware that can run those games in excess of 120 FPS constantly, and fast-paced shooters like that really benefit from the extra visible frames.

 

People tend to think that higher refresh rates were just to eliminate flicker from CRTs; apparently, they didn't consider the smoother motion benefits, probably because they're not competitive PC gamers. Then again, there are plenty of people who foolishly believe you can't see more than 24-30 FPS, while I can clearly perceive the added smoothness between 60 and about 90-100 FPS on a display that can actually refresh that fast.

 

Also important to know is that refresh rates, response time, and input lag are all completely separate things. High response time on LCDs does make higher refresh rates pointless if the frames are all blurred together like someone held down the shutter on a camera too long, but low response times do not equal high refresh rates. Meanwhile, input lag is the delay between when the display receives the signal and when it actually starts to render the signal on its surface; it's from that point that the response time starts.

post #10601 of 23241

This is turning into AVS forum tongue.gif

post #10602 of 23241
Sigma had to make "new" models just so they could sell them cheaper. Their most interesting models IMO are their large-sensor compacts - they may be limited to a signal focal length (no zoom, for the lay people) and their processing may also be comparatively slow, but the massive amount of detail they extract (at small-ish file sizes) is impressive, and a real boon for landscape, fashion, and the crazy prime lens street shooters. Probably product photographers too. The other "interesting" sensor maker is Fuji. They've thought of about 5 different ways to boost the dynamic range and decrease noise, just by themselves. I think it's interesting that Bayer was a scientist working for Kodak, and their own invention put them out of business – mostly because their board members were scared of change, and were still having meetings in even 2008 about "How are we going to kill off this 'digital' fad?"

I could talk your ear off about sensor-size equivalency and functional camera design, but that would be waaaay OT. I'll just say I love Olympus' engineers and hate their management, and we'll leave the camera talk to DPR wink.gif

As far as "green light" as a channel of light and a video signal, we are instinctively "attracted" to it and our eyes are sensitive to it, but green also carries more - I forget the word right now, but basically luminance and energy. Think red laser pointers vs green.

I wonder if ghosting wouldn't be less of a problem on a Plasma than LCD, and typical computer monitors because of the sluggish response time (high may not be the most intuitive adjective, though technically correct) of typical LCDs?

Is it obvious that I'm trying to think of anything but the Annies while the excitement is fresh?


DeathDealer,
I don't have firsthand experience with the Magni, but in general a more neutral amp is a more flexible amp between different headphones and audio genres and sources. You always have the option of Mixamp EQ. The Annies (and DT990s, probably the Sennheiser too) probably have high enough impedance that your receiver output should sound great though, and the DSPs and basic Treble, Bass, and Channel Balance adjustments of your pioneer receiver should be even more customizable than your Mixamp and not much different in quality than the Magni. I'm curious how you like the Pioneer headphone surround (how's it work with your HD598s?), but you'll have to choose between the flexibility of the receiver vs the size and cost of the Magni. I suspect that you'll want the Mixamp to bake in the surround effects, and you'll be quite well handled between the AVR and your FiiO E11.

If I was "allowed" to use my AVR setup, I probably would've never bought my Recon3D and two new headphone amps... *sigh* I sound like an out-of-touch, crazy collector frown.gif

Overall, sounds like you've got QUITE the listening experience headed your way. You'll probably have some interesting findings to share with us!
biggrin.gif
*greedy hand wringing, yessssss...*
post #10603 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

This is turning into AVS forum tongue.gif

With a touch of Digital Photography Review.

...

Sorry :/
Today was not a day I listened to music. Today was lonely, and a day another job (grocery store) said they're not hiring at this time.

I will try to make my next post (#1000!!!) more exciting, memorable, and helpful. Do review articles count as posts? Edit: not long before this thread reaches 1,000 posts too! Should only take 2 or 3 months, right? I'm tempted to make a GIF for Mad, of a cartoon taking headphones from a conveyor belt (so it can loop infinite), putting them on, and shouting "OMG!!!!" biggrin.gif



Chicco Music & Play table!!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Chicco-Music-N-Play-Table/dp/B00005BRFM/ref=sr_1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1357636525&sr=1-4


What's the Chico Adult music & play table look like?

The Everett Music & Play table is a little messy right now, but still lots of fun! I like my sparkly lava lamp backlight.

Edited by Evshrug - 1/8/13 at 1:48am
post #10604 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


With a touch of Digital Photography Review.

 

It's a good thing I have "photography" listed as a hobby on my profile.  wink.gif

post #10605 of 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Chicco Music & Play table!!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Chicco-Music-N-Play-Table/dp/B00005BRFM/ref=sr_1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1357636525&sr=1-4

What's the Chico Adult music & play table look like?
The Everett Music & Play table is a little messy right now, but still lots of fun! I like my sparkly lava lamp backlight.

 

 

Lol

 

Nice.

 

Here is my "Chico Adult music & play table..." regular_smile%20.gif

 

Admittedly not as sexy as your lava lamp setup...redface.gif but it gets the job done. wink.gif

 

 

1000

 

1000


Edited by chicolom - 1/8/13 at 4:43am
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