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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 10/15/2014: Beyerdynamic T51i Added) - Page 648

post #9706 of 26618

got the slyr for $40.  seems like a great deal.

post #9707 of 26618

Any idea when the Plyr 1 will be out?  It sounds like that will come with a virtual surround sound device of some sort.

post #9708 of 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by tml09 View Post

Hey everyone.

I'm back in the world of headphones after selling most of my old stuff. I've been through an AD700, HD598, and HD558, all through a Mixamp. After listening to my crappy Logitech 2.0 speakers for the better part of a year, anything is an upgrade. At first, I tried to resist spending more than I deemed necessary ($100 lol). I bought a few pretty subpar headphones, to which my ears responded negatively. I went through a few PC headsets (Corsair 1500, Logitech G35), and they didn't cut the mustard, so I decided on skipping any 'universal' headsets.Now it's time to find a closed set of cans fit for gaming (pc, 360).

Fast forward a bit:

After some deliberation, I bought a Beyer DT770. It was well reviewed pretty much everywhere (including here), so I bought one. Initial impressions were good. After the AD700 and the HD598, I finally understood what bass was. The treble was a bit harsh, but not mind-melting. The mids were definitely recessed, but I could deal with that. After all, the main attraction is the 'subwoofer' Beyer somehow managed to fit in these things. They are really comfortable, isolate pretty well, and don't leak enormously.

However, for some reason, these cans just don't agree with me. I'm not alone in feeling this way about the 770s. See here for a post I made in the Headphones forum:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/640876/closed-headphone-blues

Even listening to music, I couldn't take more than 20 minutes of using it. It wasn't the treble that was fatiguing. Something about them just required me to remove them to constantly take a break. I loved their directionality and soundstaging, but I just can't wear these for long without discomfort. Don't get me wrong: they are very comfortable (fluffy padding/clamp-wise), it's something about their signature that doesn't work for me. Why they don't work might have to do with the copious amounts of mind shattering bass, though I can't really pinpoint it.

So, I've decided another pair is in order. If anyone wants to take the DT770 off my hands, pm me. As much as I want them to, they don't agree with me frown.gif

Any help with some recommendations? I really don't care for competitive gaming accuracy. While I will be doing some multiplayer (BF3 mainly), I don't care about bass obscuring footsteps. I want a fun pair of cans ;-) I've narrowed my decision down to three: Pro 900, A900x, or the D2000 (if I can find them). I'm also looking for a USB dac/amp to serve for portable use and as a standalone dac, as well as 'home/desktop' amp to power any phones I might get. I'm really eyeing the iBasso D4 and the Objective2 (or a Little Dot amp, still undecided). The Schiit Magni posted above looks kind a cool too.

I could not find a Mixamp for sale on the Astro site. Almost all ebay auctions included the AX0 headset, which I just plain did not want. I had to 'settle' for a usb Recon3d, since that's what I could find. Not a huge deal, but I'm looking for a Dolby Headphone capable device so I can A/B the two, and compare them for myself I can't stand any noise/hiss, so the DSS and the 720 box are probably out of the question. Looks like I'll have to wait it out for a good deal on a Mixamp. I game from my laptop, so I don't have the luxury of buying a PCI sound card :-( 

An interesting purchase path. As for closed headphones, I'd say it's worth finding out if it's the closed nature that bothers you. I understand that the pitter-patter of little feet (etc) can be distracting, but dropping a ton of money on something you don't want to use for very long because they're uncomfortable could arguably be worse than occasional distractions. Do you get the same kind of discomfort without music playing, just when the air pressure changes from the driver compressing air at your ear, or with particular songs that are bass heavy? Number two gets me regularly.

Don't over think that last sentence (*snort*).

I was going to recommend you also put the AKG 270 (whatever version) on your list, though I haven't heard it (nor have most of us) and it seems to have a frequency response very similar to the AD700 (so, not more bassy). Meanwhile, the recording studio staple AKG 240 actually has quite high bass response levels, so if semi-open is alright these could be well worth looking into. Recommended solely based on my enjoyment of AKG's Q701. Mad's review of the SLYR makes that sound like a contender, as well.

I find the Recon3D remarkably quiet for background hiss, how do you like it? I think it's pretty nice overall, though the listening experience is greatly enhanced by a quality headphone amp after the Recon3D in line. As far as what that amp is and what you listed, the O2 is highly regarded and we're all munching on popcorn waiting for Mad's impression of the new Schiit budget desktop amp, but then the Little Dot amps are a different animal and quite good in their own way. My class-A tube amp is a bit finicky (can't plug it into a power strip with a noise-suppression circuit, I get a loud hum, also I have to buy a voltmeter to bias my aftermarket NOS tube correctly since I can't quite get both channels right by ear), but I absolutely love the sound from it at it's best, I feel like going from AD700 + Recon3D ---vs--- Q701 + Tube amp + Recon3D is quite an improvement, the Q finally has a round instead of oval soundstage, better dynamics, presence, bass, instrument separation... I'd be in heaven with my Amperex tube if only I had the right channel biased evenly, and I think the Little Dot would already have that figured out. Food for thought anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelCloris View Post

The braiding isn't difficult normally, but it does add a bit of challenge when you include the modmic line. So I added a couple of pieces of tape to hold them together while braiding. As for sound, as long as you're not doing it too tightly you'll run into no sound issues. Mic is perfectly clear, sound isn't impacted at all. But once you make it too tight, you'll strain the cabling inside and can permanently damage the cables. As for learning, there's info here on the forums on how to braid a cable, or you can look on youtube for video instructions. I learned in one of the many M50 threads.

Dude, thanks for the info. Too bad there's a ton of M50 threads... I'll try and search it later, but I feel I might take as long to find a tutorial as it would take to figure it out by looking @ your pic. But, now I know that braiding at all is a viable option (if not done too tightly). Tanks again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

We'll find out soon enough, as I have just placed an order for both the Modi and Magni. @_@

Yes! YES! Though I'm not sure you'll hear a difference between the Schiit DAC (was that the Modi?) and the ODAC. Did you ever test the ODAC + E17 ---vs--- E17 in DAC/Amp mode, and hear a difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tml09 View Post

I must be so used to open headphones, then. The 770s seal really well, so that must be the reason for the discomfort. I've worn them on and off for about 2 hours every day for the past 4 days. I still can't say they're I've gotten used to them yet. I'll give them another week and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then I'm probably going with the Pro 900 or A900x. 

MLE, was there any particular reason the A900x was unimpressive? A lot of the reviews I've read have commented on their good soundstage and overall balanced sound (with actual bass presence!), so I was thinking it would be a good candidate. For reference, I loved the AD700, but I need something closed with some more punch. The HD598s were certainly an upgrade, and they were amazing for competitive, but lacked in the 'fun' department (like the AD700). I really want to try the Q701, but I'm stuck with closed headphones for the time being. All I care about is [rebecca black] fun fun fun fun [/rebecca black].

As for ampage (for the time being) I'm probably going to buy an E17 for use as a DAC and portable amp, and wait to buy an O2 or Magni, pending reviews. I'm going to try and find a DSS or something, just so I can A/B the Recon3d with it. I think the 3d is fine, but I've got nothing to compare it to, save for my memories of the Mixamp. 

Hello again, tml09
I A/B'd the recon3D USB with the Silent Cinema built into my receiver, I would be interested to hear your comparison & contrast in addition to MLE's.

I think I can guess one stand-out reason the A900x weren't for Mad... he hates AT's wings. If that didn't bug you with the AD700, then you'd probably get more Milage - the wings didn't bother me, though I wished the earcup top/bottom would pivot so that they would fit more flush. Then I tried a rubber band connecting the wings, got a perfect tension with my first rubber band try, and IMO they're more comfy than the Q701 for me now, because they're light and still don't demand your attention with pressure. I still can't seem to let my AD700 go, even though I have 2 headphones for the same purpose and overall prefer the Q701's increase in quality. Back to the A900x, I read what Mad said else he didn't like about them... I think it was still a bit bass shy or something, but I'm confident he'll tell you himself.

I hear what you say about the AD700 being fun yet bass shy, and I tried a number of closed headphones with more bass plus the ability to feel air move with the driver excursion, but my taste found the semi-open/closed headphone to be the best balance of bass/physical presence with refinement/non-fatiguing. Hopefully, you find your best balance. During your next week with the DT770s, definitely leave them playing for 3-5 hours a few times, even if you aren't there to listen, so that you know for yourself if it just needed some "breaking-in" or "burn-in" time.

GL HF!
post #9709 of 26618
Oh no, a very long post to double-dip. Sry.
post #9710 of 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoAmusing777 View Post

If you say so. I did expound on this in a later post. Right, because they don't at all. Try Uncharted. That's a big difference. Woah, you're going way too far. I never said that. I don't have any exceptional type of ear. Just by saying sorry after typing something, although it wasn't that bad, doesn't make it just fine. I'm somewhat serious, yes. Okay. Why wouldn't it? I'm not exactly looking for an advantage. I want fidelity. Nope. Hmm, interesting. I'm all ears.

"Ok. No. Yes. Well I disagree. You have a point there..."
No offense SoAmusing777, and I do understand the points both of you two are making in this exchange (Seeking fidelity vs diminishing returns, the standard YMMV scenario), but sometimes I have to reread your replies a few times to get where you're responding to what, and in this particular post I'm not even sure exactly where each response matches up with the original post. For clarity, I usually put related ideas together and write a more general reply, with a paragraph per idea, instead of a bunch of point-by-point responses in line. If you could at least insert bolded responses into text you are replying to, it could help others (or at least me) follow along better. I'm not saying anything about you or the topic of the quoted text, I'm just saying help a guy with short attention-spans (me) out smily_headphones1.gif

P.S. what I said in quotation marks wasn't in reply to your post, it was just an example of a bunch of fragmented sentences strung together.
Edited by Evshrug - 12/13/12 at 4:21pm
post #9711 of 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


"Ok. No. Yes. Well I disagree. You have a point there..."
No offense SoAmusing777, and I do understand the points both of you two are making in this exchange (Seeking fidelity vs diminishing returns, the standard YMMV scenario), but sometimes I have to reread your replies a few times to get where you're responding to what, and in this particular post I'm not even sure exactly where each response matches up with the original post. For clarity, I usually put related ideas together and write a more general reply, with a paragraph per idea, instead of a bunch of point-by-point responses in line. If you could at least insert bolded responses into text you are replying to, it could help others (or at least me) follow along better. I'm not saying anything about you or the topic of the quoted text, I'm just saying help a guy with short attention-spans (me) out smily_headphones1.gif
P.S. what I said in quotation marks wasn't in reply to your post, it was just an example of a bunch of fragmented sentences strung together.

I second this, I was having such a hard time trying to figure it out I just started skipping over your reply's. 

 

I need to head to Best Buy and try out some of their open headphones, I'm starting to get curious about how they will differ from my closed Koss TBSE and my on ear Sennheisers. I've come to the conclusion that I don't like being unable to hear whats going on around me.. like my wife sneaking up on me tongue_smile.gif, handy for airplanes though. 

post #9712 of 26618
The best buy near me (and apparently Mad as well) has recently expanded their headphone lineup, which is good. Some stores with Magnolia apparently even let you demo the high-end headphones! The demo stations are great, but remember, they're like rental cars and people are dumb, so don't expect them to be 100% accurate to a fresh pair. I saw AT A900x and AKG K550 headphones at mine, although those weren't set up for in-store listening. Next time I need to make a large-ish purchase (NVIDIA GTX 6xx series GPU?) maybe I'll "borrow" a pair of headphones too, so I don't completely abuse the physical store smily_headphones1.gif

Remember, no h8 towards SoAmusing, it's just that sentence fragments can be misunderstood.
post #9713 of 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Didnt know my return window was so long for the E17... guess its going back today... and Im ordering the Magni, lol.
Who knows, I might even put the SA-31 and ODAC for sale, and getting that Modi, X1 or K702/65!
As for the Skullcandy deal, the SLYR for $40 is ridiculous, and everyone looking for a good closed headset should jump on it. SERIOUSLY.

 

Wow, it seems like you've had the E17 for a while now.

 

The Magni looks worth trying.  If it were me, I would probably hang on to the ODAC for a while.  The Modi may look sexier, but it seems like You-Know-Who spent a ton time tweaking and reiterating the ODAC, going through several revisions to squeeze the most out of it possible.  I doubt the Modi got as much TLC paid to its individual components.  /Speculation

 

Of course, DACs sound pretty damn similar past a certain point.

post #9714 of 26618

Thanks for the awesome response, Evshrug. My discomfort with the 770s seems to stem from my lack of experience with any low frequencies lol. I've never had any bass heavy (or closed) cans, nor have I ever owned a subwoofer (apartment life <--- the reason I got into headphones). I'll do exactly what you suggest, and let them burn in over the course of the week. I'll give them another shot. I'm not going to discount other cans, though. Who knows, I might find something better :-)

 

I don't see much info online about the K270s and gaming. They might be good. I'll look into them some more. The SLYR looks ok for gaming; they probably aren't comparable to 'serious' cans for music. The most intriguing of the bunch seems to be the K550. Here's a review that mentions that they are really nice for gaming:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/599170/akg-k550-review-essentially-a-closed-back-k702-literally

 

I might pick these up soon, along with a dolby headphone device.

 

Also, I like the Recon3d well enough. It's pretty decent in emulating surround, and it's pretty much noise-free. I can pinpoint front and back easy enough in Far Cry 3. I mean to try it with some Battlefield 3 and hopefully COD-something-or-other (I think Modern Warfare is the only one I've kept). I've alternated putting my lowly CmoyBB inline after the Recon3d. The difference was very audible (clearer and somewhat more spacious), but since I'm not 100 pct comfortable with the Beyers yet, it was a little much bass-wise. I'll probably pick up a DSS off of ebay for cheap and see how they compare. For comparison's sake, I think the DSS might do just fine. I'm not big on using a mic online, so if I get a relatively noise-free DSS, I think I could live with it. The Mixamp would be more ideal, though, just because I'm more familiar with it (and it doesn't suffer from hiss). For only $65 on Amazon (through J&R), the Recon3d is an affordable alternative to the Mixamp (if you've never heard one, I guess). When I do order the DSS (or if a good deal pops up on a Mixamp), I'll be sure to post some impressions about their differences.

 

I recently bought an E17 to use as a portable amp for inlining with my Recon3d and as a portable amp. It will also serve well enough as an all-purpose amp till I scrounge up some cash for a decent desktop amp (Objective2, Little Dot, or the *ooooooh* Magni, pending reviews). 

 

I guessed that MLE might have had some disdain for the wings on the A900x after glancing at the previous pages. I really didn't mind them on the AD700s, but I imagine the A900x weighs more. Everyone on the forums is complaining about the wings, but I've got a relatively big head, so they might just work :-)

post #9715 of 26618

Lucky for me my competitive gmaing is in RTS games where directionality is somewhat secondary (a decent regular stereo can help you locate sounds on a big map), and i am leaning towards the HE-400. Cant wait to run ME2, Dragon Age1 or Summoner 1 on my Lapptop wih the E17 as a DAC :D.

post #9716 of 26618

+1 for the $40 SLYR.  I wrote SkullCandy off a while ago, interesting developments there from what I've been reading.  After reading everything MLE said about them, I'm getting antsy to receive them.  I posted earlier and didn't get a response (it was a bit longwinded), but I had recently picked up an original DSS to pair with my x12's.  Any comparison you can make between the two (x12+DSS vs. SLYR) so I can know what to expect?  Is the Mixamp 5.8 a must? 

I'm hoping I can find a way to have both headsets fully working (with chat) simultaneously on my 360, so we'll see.

post #9717 of 26618

you should test the AD900

post #9718 of 26618
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuny View Post

you should test the AD900

Probably not gonna happen. I hate the wing design, and I hear their positioning isn't as good as the AD700s. I mean, I'm sure they're still good, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get them.

In other news...



biggrin.gif

A40 vs A50!

Mixamp 2013 hiss vs Mixamp 5.8 hiss. If they are even remotely similar, I won't call the Mixamp 2013's hiss anything worth noting, compared to the AX720's hiss.

By the way Chico, I bought this E17 on November 11 (my second one). I would have been out of Micca's return period, but I guess the holidays have extended periods.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 12/14/12 at 10:30am
post #9719 of 26618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Mixamp 2013 hiss vs Mixamp 5.8 hiss. If they are even remotely similar, I won't call the Mixamp 2013's hiss anything worth noting, compared to the AX720's hiss.

 

 

Yes, please get to the bottom of that.  wink.gif

post #9720 of 26618
Thread Starter 
I have to sleep and work, but I'll be on that tomorrow. I'll even use the KSC35 as the one to test hiss.
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