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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 10/15/2014: Beyerdynamic T51i Added) - Page 950

post #14236 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post
AND OMFG, MY MARANTZ JUST DIED. Just tested my TV's and PS3's optical signals going through the Marantz and onto my PLYR1. The PLYR1 is connected to the Marantz's optical line out, and is functioning perfectly. The headphone jack on the receviver is dead. I tested my laptop, and when I put the volume on full blast on the Marantz, very little of it goes to my KSC75. I tested my KSC75 with another source and they're perfect, so I know it's the headphone jack on my Marantz.

Sigh...there goes $200 and change down the drain.

I guess I'm gonna have to spend even more money acquiring a DSS in the meantime. That or just stick to the PLYR1 doing just PS3 duty for now.

I'm...upset.

 

Damn, that sucks!

 

It also means my plans to later offer you my SR-Lambda + SRD-7/SB setup for a review just went down the drain if the speaker amp portion is also dead...do you have any means of testing the speaker taps?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamakahah View Post
Very true. People don't understand initially because before Beats entered the picture, most consumer headphones that people bought were under $50.

So to many, the idea of $200+ headphones is ludicrous. Until they actually hear what that money can give them and their brain explodes.

 

Even I thought the notion of $200+, no, $100+ headphones was ludicrous at one point in my life.

 

Now I'm here and dreaming of $5,000 headphones driven by $5,000 amps that I'll probably never get an ears-on audition with or even see in person, all because of a $250 headphone purchase on this forum, and suddenly a $300-500 amp to drive the headphones of my choice doesn't seem so bad.

 

"Sorry about your wallet" indeed...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomSound View Post

Does the new ps4/xboxone have better surround sound or is it all about graphics

 

I frankly doubt they gave much consideration to sound beyond having an HDMI port...

 

ONLY having an HDMI port, at that, so those of us without A/V receivers with good headphone surround implementations built-in (like the discontinued Dolby Headphone receivers from Harmon/Kardon and Marantz) or a Smyth Realiser A8 are screwed.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post
In other news...

Got myself Mirror's Edge and Battlefield 3 on my PC.

Gonna have to eat my words...

With the Recon 3Di... the surround cues were ABSOLUTELY AMAZING in their campaigns. SO MANY positional cues... from helicopters, to birds, etc.... I haven't heard this kind of immersion in their console versions...

EVS, I'm gonna have to eat my words here. THX Tru Studio is LEGIT.

I don't have the chance to compare with DH though, but at this point, I'm incredibly happy with my soundcard.

 

Well, I'll be...Mirror's Edge having excellent positional audio is understandable (it uses an early UnrealEngine3 version which still had OpenAL by default), but praising Battlefield 3 takes me by surprise because it's based on the Frostbite engine, which had TERRIBLE positioning in BF: Bad Company 2 regardless of what settings I used. (And given that BF:BC2 put me off because of that and the overemphasis on unlocks that started back with BF2142...)

 

Chances are BF3's going to sell on Origin for just $5 tomorrow if the vote went like I think it did, in which case I may just buy it solely to evaluate its positional audio quality. (I'm firmly expecting to not bother with playing it when I still have BF1942 and BF2.)

 

Still, this gives me more reason to look into all that hype for those Z-series cards, in case PCIe Sound Core3D hardware actually does fare a lot better than the Recon3D USB. (Or find out if there's a Recon3Di software suite lingering around...)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post
There were a couple YouTube demos from a Tomb Raider benchmark run I saw recently, I'll add them to this post if I find them before I fall asleep. IMO THX sounded best of those. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by dry... But just to say, I found CMSS-3D too bright 70% (when high-pitched sounds play), but I didn't have that problem with THX TSP once I found my preference. I will also add that someone (with heavy-handed bias) did a series of BF3 videos, and The clear winner of those was CMSS-3D... never heard that processing sound as good.
The hassle does suck and seem unreasonable...
The lack of echo and "processed sound" are my favourite aspects of the THX TSP option.
My fear is that, somehow, the unit Nameless got doesn't sound as good as mine did by some manufacturer defect or something (unlikely, but...). Even though that could explain a few things, I still think it highly unlikely that the units vary.
I think I want to roll in a different tube into my amp though, I'm honestly not as in love with the bargain Bugle Boys as I was with my Sylvania JAN spec tube I used before, and I still have four Russian Vokshods to try out.

 

I can't say I've ever found CMSS-3D Headphone too bright...even with a history of headphones generally regarded as "bright" in their overall signature. At the very least, high-pitched sounds never felt like they were stabbing my eardrums. (Some say this is one of Stax's general strengths across their entire lineup, so that could have something to do with it.)

 

As for a manufacturing defect, I doubt it. It's probably Creative's drivers that are to blame; all the processing's done in software for their USB devices, after all. And even then, it's not like I haven't tested THX TSP Surround on my X-Fi Titanium HD in Entertainment Mode, only to come to the exact same conclusion: CMSS-3D Headphone just positions far better, even if it does have a side effect of sucking out the bass without EQ compensation.


Edited by NamelessPFG - 6/12/13 at 2:42am
post #14237 of 27951
Thread Starter 
It may be that the single player portion does positional cues better than the Multiplayer. the opposite of the earlier current gen CoDs. Great multiplayer positional cues, horrible in single player.

I'll see about jumping into the BF3 online for testing soonish.

Just beat Tomb Raider. That game is AMAZING. Probably playing Mirror's Edge or FEAR 3 next.

And nope, no speaker tap potential. frown.gif
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 6/12/13 at 2:49am
post #14238 of 27951
I need to own Tomb Raider myself, just got an epic game backlog right now. Partially cuz I'm still replaying competitive games... I did finish first in my silver league division of StarCraft II, season 3 that just ended!

This isn't the video I meant, but I figured I may as well show THX in Mirror's Edge:

Edit: Update
Ok, not exactly what i was looking for but you guys may be able to find the THX test, here's the new Creative SBX in Tomb Raider:

Edit2: Still can't find what I was talking about, but I have to get ready to leave for work now. Here's one more sample, SBX again, the author makes a very good point about quality loss during transcoding into YouTube video (this one is supposed to be better, and now I'm curious what it would be like to turn the surround strength slider off):
Edited by Evshrug - 6/12/13 at 5:44am
post #14239 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

In other news...

Got myself Mirror's Edge and Battlefield 3 on my PC.

Gonna have to eat my words...

With the Recon 3Di... the surround cues were ABSOLUTELY AMAZING in their campaigns. SO MANY positional cues... from helicopters, to birds, etc.... I haven't heard this kind of immersion in their console versions...

EVS, I'm gonna have to eat my words here. THX Tru Studio is LEGIT.

I don't have the chance to compare with DH though, but at this point, I'm incredibly happy with my soundcard.

That would be DICE's incredible sound engine technology at work my friend, so pretty much any surround virtualization technology is going to work really well - I also have THX Tru Studio on my soundcard.  I know you're a huge fan of positional cues so this is probably making you drool haha!  If you truly want your mind=blown (if you ever start playing online with people you know that is) check this out: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Positional-Audio & http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Games This just solidifies the whole experience!

post #14240 of 27951
Thread Starter 
To be fair, Battlefield games have horrible positional cues, since DICE. At least I thought so until i tried the single player of BF3....which was surprisingly good at positional cues.

The games have great audio quality, bad positional cues. I prefer good positional cues even if quality isn't the best.

Oh, I really don't have the time to tweak settings just to get games to sound good. That's part of the reason I prefer console gaming. I can't stand overly complicated settings and tweaking. Screw that noise.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 6/12/13 at 8:15am
post #14241 of 27951

ok, saw a nice overview review of the different processing techniques, here post #8

 

I really liked the SBX summary:

 

"SBX Surround

It's been quite on the upward spiral lately, what THX Surround did wrong... Creative took it and modified whatever they needed to and the result is something I would call: the marriage between Dolby Headphones and CMSS-3D.
SBX does not have better positional accuracy than CMSS-3D, but it IS better than Dolby Headphones (even with a good open headphone combo). It doesn't present that "tin can" effect or have too much reverb.

Best of all, I feel that SBX Surround just works with any type of headphones. Be it open, semi-open or closed. SBX fits well within the range and although it doesn't get to be as accurate or as immersive with CMSS-3D and DH, I think SBX is the best all rounder for someone who just wants to game and watch movies.


I hope that helps. Remember, virtual surround sound DOES work. People who say it doesn't, well... too bad, it doesn't for them.
IMO, they work and they're fun to use."

post #14242 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

To be fair, Battlefield games have horrible positional cues, since DICE. At least I thought so until i tried the single player of BF3....which was surprisingly good at positional cues.

The games have great audio quality, bad positional cues. I prefer good positional cues even if quality isn't the best.

Oh, I really don't have the time to tweak settings just to get games to sound good. That's part of the reason I prefer console gaming. I can't stand overly complicated settings and tweaking. Screw that noise.

Maybe I just haven't heard really good positional cues yet then, but isn't DICE is responsible for development in all of them?  They used to go by Digital Illusions (CE).  Anyway, do you have a recommendation for a game that's a good example as far as positional sound quality goes?

post #14243 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

To be fair, Battlefield games have horrible positional cues, since DICE. At least I thought so until i tried the single player of BF3....which was surprisingly good at positional cues.

The games have great audio quality, bad positional cues. I prefer good positional cues even if quality isn't the best.

Oh, I really don't have the time to tweak settings just to get games to sound good. That's part of the reason I prefer console gaming. I can't stand overly complicated settings and tweaking. Screw that noise.

Wow. That's the first time I've read that. BF3, in particular, has some of the best positional audio I've heard. It's not CS perfection, but it's also 1000x more complex.

 

I'll be looking for you out in the field. beerchug.gif

post #14244 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post

And now that the Sony love is calming down has been around for a while, a ton of anti-Sony, pro Microsoft comments are flooding in. I'm so confused by that... I own 2 xbox 360s, yet I can't find a single reason the only reason I can think of to support xbox one over PS4 is that it has halo 5... And the xbox one has so many preorders already confused.gif

There's a lot of fanboys out there and the 14-19 year old boys can have a pretty loud voice on the interwebs. The same thing happens after every E3 and especially after ones involved console launches. I'd like to think I don't have brand loyalty anywhere and pick what I think is going to be best. With consoles, I look at IP exclusives, network robustness, ease of use, user base, and history. IP exclusives looks to be just a matter of tastes. Network robustness goes to Microsoft and I have had terrible experiences on PSN. Ease of use is Xbox again. It's just a more intuitive interface for me and a whole lot more snappier. The user base goes to XBL too as there are just more paying users (oh, fyi, PSN will now have to pay for multiplayer). My experience, the model helps weed out some immaturity. History also goes to Xbox considering how much they have built since within these last two console's lifespans and considering they did it when Sony was just killing it. Basically, I'm saying I ordered my Xbox One yesterday. They've earned my trust they will do what's right. I know I'll end up getting a PS4 a little down the line as well as soon as they show me something to be excited for.

 

Am I bothered about all of the policies and DRM? Of course, but I don't see them as something that will take away from my experience. I also know MS is listening and wouldn't be surprised if some of those policies changed. Anyway, let's check back a year from now at E3 2014 and see where things stand.


Edited by roguegeek - 6/12/13 at 10:58am
post #14245 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

They've earned my trust they will do what's right.

 

I personally think they threw everyone's trust out the door at E3. There's reasons why people game on consoles... simplicity and affordabability. That's the reason why there are so many 14-19 year old fanboys ranting at each other on the web. If that wasn't the case then everyone would just game on PC. I'm 30 years old and prefer simplicty, myself. You see Mad, for example, already having minor gripes with the complication of PC gaming.

 

In my opinion, I believe MS went all multimedia with the Xbox One on their customers and are trying to attract PC gamers.

 

I'm not bashing the Xbox. I'm A PS3 player and am quick to admit that games run alot smoother on the Xbox 360. All I'm saying is that Sony seems to have stuck with console tradition while MS completely flipped the script. The whole used game restriction and forcing people to log in every 24hrs to play a game is insane.


Edited by Change is Good - 6/12/13 at 11:10am
post #14246 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguegeek View Post

Wow. That's the first time I've read that. BF3, in particular, has some of the best positional audio I've heard. It's not CS perfection, but it's also 1000x more complex.

I'll be looking for you out in the field. beerchug.gif
Really? I've heard Mad and Nameless say something along the lines of "Sound effects are of high quality and fidelity, but positioning is poorly processed" pretty much every time BF3 was mentioned since it's release. You do talk about BF3 all the time, I'm surprised you missed those comments? Btw I do think its a good game, though I haven't buy it again for PC since I built a pc capable of playing it.

Generally, on the Xbox 360 I recommend from my games so far CoD4 (best COD audio, among other things it does better), Halo Reach & 4 (SWAT on Reach is particularly fun, especially on more dynamic maps unlike hot zone maps like Sword Base and it's yellow lift), Elder Scrolls (I have a good experience playing Oblivion but I haven't started Skyrim yet), DMC was pretty cool and sound helped you find "hidden" things, Metro 2033 was AMAZING and atmospheric, and I don't play any other BIOSHOCK INFINITE WAS AWESOME!!!!
post #14247 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


Really? I've heard Mad and Nameless say something along the lines of "Sound effects are of high quality and fidelity, but positioning is poorly processed" pretty much every time BF3 was mentioned since it's release. You do talk about BF3 all the time, I'm surprised you missed those comments? Btw I do think its a good game, though I haven't buy it again for PC since I built a pc capable of playing it.

Generally, on the Xbox 360 I recommend from my games so far CoD4 (best COD audio, among other things it does better), Halo Reach & 4 (SWAT on Reach is particularly fun, especially on more dynamic maps unlike hot zone maps like Sword Base and it's yellow lift), Elder Scrolls (I have a good experience playing Oblivion but I haven't started Skyrim yet), DMC was pretty cool and sound helped you find "hidden" things, Metro 2033 was AMAZING and atmospheric, and I don't play any other BIOSHOCK INFINITE WAS AWESOME!!!!

Just not my experience, I guess. Previous iterations, yes. The beta, yes. Those had problems. Not BF3. I've been a pretty competitive FPS gamer for quite a while and what Frostbite pulls off is just really impressive to me. You want horrible positional audio in a competitive FPS? Check out Planetside 2. I love that game, but its audio is so incredible inaccurate.

 

BTW, Planetside 2 as an exclusive to PS4... that's a reason to be excited about that system. Doesn't matter to me as I'd rather run it on a PC, but if you're trying to be excited about PS4, it's definitely a great reason to be.

post #14248 of 27951

Hey MLE,

 

You talked about how awesome the Recon 3DI is. Looking it up online led me nowhere. What is the full model name?

post #14249 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post
In my opinion, I believe MS went all multimedia with the Xbox One on their customers and are trying to attract PC gamers.

They didn't do a very good job. There's a resounding consensus on the PC forums I visit that if they were going to buy anything, it would be a PS4. 

 

I primarily PC game but I do get use out of my PS3/Wii/3DS for select RPGs and platformers. I know for a fact right now that I won't ever buy a XBone. I'm fairly positive that I will pick up a Wii-U and PS4 somewhere down the line after a couple of hardware redesigns/price drops. 

post #14250 of 27951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder Mike View Post

They didn't do a very good job. There's a resounding consensus on the PC forums I visit that if they were going to buy anything, it would be a PS4. 

 

Well, I did say try... I didn't necessarily mean they would succeed... tongue_smile.gif

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