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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Update: 10/15/2014: Beyerdynamic T51i Added) - Page 836

post #12526 of 27878

Which one is better in terms of audio quality, Sennheiser PC 360 or RS 220? And which input source is better, optic or analog?

 

Thx.

post #12527 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

Picked up a multi-headphone stand at Bed Bath and Beyond that someone had mistakenly mis-labeled as "mug holder."

 

 

grrrr dang it man don't rub that in lol. I need to buy one of those well I need a place to put mit first, lolI jerry rigged a can stand <3 and it works nice but only one spot left for new cans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zharay View Post

Hey guys and thanks Envy, your guide is a huge help for me as I get into the world of head-fi.

 

I'm in need of some sway here as I'm basically torn between the 3 choices below. My budget is looking at around $550 max (less is best!)

  1. Q701 - $290 new ($240 used)
  2. A40 2013 Ed - $250 new
  3. DT990 600ohm - $340 new ($240 used!)

 

At first I was all for the Q701, but then I came into thinking that the A40's mixamp would be the best price ratio when coupled with its set of cans... and THEN I find the DT990s at a pretty competitive price used. So now I'm stuck on these choices.

 

Oh and it gets a litter more interesting, as I also would like to get a good amp for one of these as well. Since I'm primarily a PC gamer, I don't think I need to worry too much about virtual surround boxes (be nice to have later on as I do play on my PS3 plenty). My motherboard itself comes with an X-Fi chipset with optical audio output, but I'm still unsure as to how a DAC would fit in all that. Would I need it? Would it be redundant? I also have an old X-Fi Xtremegamer Fatality Ed., but I'm not at all sure as to how well it fairs now (plus I gotta fish it out of the closet and pray my SLI setup won't be messing with its placement).

 

As for the AMP, I was looking at Schiit's Magni and FiiO's E09K, but it seems they would be better off with their DAC counter parts for that clear sound channel which confuses me further in my choice (and also increases the price overall by another $100 at least).

 

So my questions are as follows: Given those 3 choices, what best way should I go about getting them properly setup for my PC? Should I go with just the AMP or go for a AMP+DAC combo? Or should I just get an Astro Mixamp + one of the choices above?

 

Someone help me out of this bind! I'm dying to hear some audio bliss and clarity in my games without bothering my next door neighbors! basshead.gif

i'd go for a dac amp combo if this is your first set up, in addition if ur  pc gamer there is another thread that will sooon be recommneded to you, but for pure quality again I'd go dac combo for your pc, it's what I have an I enjoy it, although I'm not a competitve gamer [or not one that needs to hear where ppl r coming from] 

 

In addition I really dig the dt 990, if you get the Pro 250 ohm version they should b nice n extra cheap <3

 

And lastly, nice Fooly Cooly avatar :3, we all make that face when we make our first post here xD

post #12528 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruuku View Post

Dang.... If you had the 720s you could have reused the AX Decoder box. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to use the Pro DB with your own headphones because the signal it outputs is 7 channels. 

 

Dang! Are you sure?

 

I`m sure this sounds super stupid but what do you mean its signal output is 7 channels? The box itself has the standard ports on the front for connecting the AX-Pro headset and three alternative jacks at the back of the box for 5.1 analogue output...

post #12529 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

Picked up a multi-headphone stand at Bed Bath and Beyond that someone had mistakenly mis-labeled as "mug holder."

 

 

 

And this is the type of thinking that will ensure the human race lives on long after the zombie apocalypse.

post #12530 of 27878

Thanks for all those helpful replies guys, I'm starting to get somewhere now!

 

So after reading through some more stuff on top of your replies here is where I stand. I'm definitely going to be getting me a new sound card, it is just coming down to whether I want a X-Fi Titanium HD (better for games and an amp up to 330 ohm) or a Xonar STX (better amp at up to 600 ohm). I can figure that part out as I go along, but for now I'm leaning toward Titanium HD.

 

As for the headphones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post

Those prices for the Q and DT 990 are pretty high btw, where are you located?

 

I actually didn't know that those prices were considered high. I'm in the US and I've been looking at amazon primarily for base prices. Looking through those I'm seeing the Q701 for around $180 and the DT990 PRO 250 ohm for $160 (premium is $250) on ebay. Looking at almost $100 in savings right there, which makes it easier for me to get me an external amp (sweet biggrin.gif). 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruuku View Post

A year ago I'd have totally recommend ditching the A40s.... but from what I've read (not experienced) the 2013 editions seemed to have upped its game significantly, however, I’d still have to give the DT990s or Q701 (or if you can swing it, the 702 65th)  the higher recommendation. Between the Q701 and the 990, with your decision based only on gaming, your desire's for single player immersion quality vs competitive performance will most likely be a determining factor.

 

 

Right, so for me immersion is best. Competitive gaming is an after thought, but I do love me some BF3 and I'm pretty damn good at it. Let's take Tomb Raider as an example as it is what I'm playing right now. The game has some of the best sound design I've heard in an adventure game for a while, so I want to be completely in that kind of environment. It is also very base heavy and getting that nice low frequency hum whenever you use your instincts is fun with my speakers so I want to have that carry over to my next set of cans. And then there is music. I love to listen to melodic metal like Amon Amarth and Insomnium which features a nice set high and lows with some awesome guitar rifts.

 

So I guess I'm heading more towards the DT990s? Unless there is anything else to look towards (those K702 65th would be so awesome to have if I could get it for under its normal price of $500, but I doubt I will).

 

As for the external amp, I'm going to go with the Schiit Magni. Later on in the year I'll worry about my PS3 and get it a Mixamp or similar.

 

Any other suggestions or things I should look out for? I'm still very open for suggestions as long as its reasonable.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

 

And lastly, nice Fooly Cooly avatar :3, we all make that face when we make our first post here xD

 

Hehe thanks. Its literally the face I usually make for just about any situation really :P


Edited by Zharay - 3/23/13 at 1:57pm
post #12531 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zharay View Post

Right, so for me immersion is best. Competitive gaming is an after thought, but I do love me some BF3 and I'm pretty damn good at it. Let's take Tomb Raider as an example as it is what I'm playing right now. The game has some of the best sound design I've heard in an adventure game for a while, so I want to be completely in that kind of environment. It is also very base heavy and getting that nice low frequency hum whenever you use your instincts is fun with my speakers so I want to have that carry over to my next set of cans. And then there is music. I love to listen to melodic metal like Amon Amarth and Insomnium which features a nice set high and lows with some awesome guitar rifts.

 

So I guess I'm heading more towards the DT990s? Unless there is anything else to look towards (those K702 65th would be so awesome to have if I could get it for under its normal price of $500, but I doubt I will).

 

As for the external amp, I'm going to go with the Schiit Magni. Later on in the year I'll worry about my PS3 and get it a Mixamp or similar.

 

Any other suggestions or things I should look out for? I'm still very open for suggestions as long as its reasonable.

 

 

 

Hehe thanks. Its literally the face I usually make for just about any situation really :P

yup, your on the right track my friend! Pretty soon you'l have 4 cans and 3 amps sitting on ur desk like a good portion of us do <3 [which reminds me it's time to switch back into the Hybrid tube! 

 

but I love teh dt 990 [although I like it STRICLY for edm as I think it has to much bass] still though it is very balanced! I just have a thing about non linear bass in non edm music <3 

post #12532 of 27878
Thread Starter 
Chico, what Grados are those? The CAL is always classy. Can't hate the shiny piano black, ever.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 3/23/13 at 2:56pm
post #12533 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post

Which one is better in terms of audio quality, Sennheiser PC 360 or RS 220? And which input source is better, optic or analog?

 

Thx.

 

Of the headphones, the PC 360 hands down. The RS 220 is more focused towards convenience than sound quality. I purchased them for my father to use on his TV. They sound nice, but not ace nice as the the sound quality you get with the 360s. As for the source feed, it honestly depends on your preference and the setup you have. Some people love analog over digital, some feel the other way. In some setups you can't use one or the other. So that's a weighted question.

post #12534 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zharay View Post

Thanks for all those helpful replies guys, I'm starting to get somewhere now!

So after reading through some more stuff on top of your replies here is where I stand. I'm definitely going to be getting me a new sound card, it is just coming down to whether I want a X-Fi Titanium HD (better for games and an amp up to 330 ohm) or a Xonar STX (better amp at up to 600 ohm). I can figure that part out as I go along, but for now I'm leaning toward Titanium HD.

As for the headphones...


I actually didn't know that those prices were considered high. I'm in the US and I've been looking at amazon primarily for base prices. Looking through those I'm seeing the Q701 for around $180 and the DT990 PRO 250 ohm for $160 (premium is $250) on ebay. Looking at almost $100 in savings right there, which makes it easier for me to get me an external amp (sweet biggrin.gif
). 

The Titanium HD doesn't have a dedicated amp like the STX or even cheaper ASUS Xonar cards do, that spec about 300 ohm headphones is kind of misleading (it really wouldn't drive most high impedance headphones very well, or the Q701 for that matter). It's not really any better with games either unless you're playing older games that still used EAX (like 5+ years old), which is now deprecated (but still supported by the Ti HD, the STX claims some level of EAX emulation but it's buggy and worthless).

That being said, if you're getting an external amp then you should just opt for the Titanium HD because it should be cheaper and it's DAC and surround emulation are pretty much on par with the STX... Your choice should really be Ti HD + Magni vs STX by itself IMO, specially for the kind of headphone you're looking at. Depending on current deals you'd probably spend about the same either way, but as I said earlier, if you plan to get a Mixamp later then getting the cheaper Ti HD plus an amp that you can actually use with the Mixamp (like the Magni) might be wiser...

One practical thing the STX does have going for it tho is that you can switch between speakers and headphones in software (which controls a mechanical relay, just like inputs are switched on a receiver)... The Ti HD just mutes the speaker outputs the second you plug in headphones and doesn't let you switch from the OS, newer Creative Z cards do.

Prices for those older model headphones on Amazon fluctuate like crazy btw. You should check out www.camelcamelcamel.com to look at pricing history for any item on Amazon or even set up price alerts... It's not uncommon for $350 Beyers and AKG to drop $100 randomly (or particularly during Thanksgiving, one of the few things out there that still sees big holiday discounts). The Premium Beyers are usually a little more expensive but I think I've seen the DT 990 Pro drop under $200 pretty often at Amazon.

I'm usually more comfortable buying things like headphones from Amazon or other authorized retailers (or even Amazon merchants) since it's much easier to deal with them for returns/exchanges. Razordogaudio has decent prices on Beyers and AKGs at the moment once you use one of the $50-100 instant discounts they have on the site.
Edited by Impulse - 3/23/13 at 5:59pm
post #12535 of 27878

question what exactly is gain, my new matrix sounds pertty terrible when I have the gain above  0 [when using my w1000x]

 

where as the dt 880 sounds great at 20db gain

 

in addition the w1000x is 48 ohms or something the 350 around 250 ohms

post #12536 of 27878
The way I understand it, gain's a measurement that represents the ratio of incoming to outgoing signal strength (not the same thing as volume). Thus, more sensitive or easier to drive headphones work better with lower gain and vice versa. So yeah, you're using it properly.
post #12537 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post

Prices for those older model headphones on Amazon fluctuate like crazy btw. You should check out www.camelcamelcamel.com to look at pricing history for any item on Amazon or even set up price alerts... It's not uncommon for $350 Beyers and AKG to drop $100 randomly (or particularly during Thanksgiving, one of the few things out there that still sees big holiday discounts). The Premium Beyers are usually a little more expensive but I think I've seen the DT 990 Pro drop under $200 pretty often at Amazon.

I'm usually more comfortable buying things like headphones from Amazon or other authorized retailers (or even Amazon merchants) since it's much easier to deal with them for returns/exchanges. Razordogaudio has decent prices on Beyers and AKGs at the moment once you use one of the $50-100 instant discounts they have on the site.

Thanks for linking me those sites, especially the camelx3 one, going to be using this from now on when I look into prices. I'd go for Razordogaudio, but they are currently out of business until April 1st and I'd rather have my gear in hand by then.

 

On the flip side I've hunkered down and bought my stuff. Ended up with the X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni, and the DT990 250 ohm Premiums. The reason I went with the Premium over the Pro was due to two things: I really didn't like the idea of having that extra clamp despite the extra bass and smaller soundstage. The Premiums seem to be a much better fit for my larger head and I don't want to feel that pressure on my ears for long term use. The other reason is that I managed to find a decent price on them. Someone posted up a $250 set that was hardly used at all so I snatched it up. I did find $160 PROs that I could of gotten, but I won't be buying me another set for a while.

 

So in all I think I've spent $470 or so, bring it just under my $500 limit I had placed on myself. Can't wait to get my gear next week! beyersmile.png

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

yup, your on the right track my friend! Pretty soon you'l have 4 cans and 3 amps sitting on ur desk like a good portion of us do <3 [which reminds me it's time to switch back into the Hybrid tube! 

Haha yea this is where it starts. Now that I got a great job, I'm probably going to end up with a full multi-headphone stand mislabeled as a "mug holder" beerchug.gif

post #12538 of 27878
Sweet man, let us know how you like your new setup. Premium version also looks much sleeker IMO... tongue.gif The grey forks and more modem grill design just look better. Anyway, the clamp's something you could alter by stretching them, but the Pro's coiled cable is harder to live with or replace.

Not everyone ends up with a mug holder btw... Some of us just have multiple stands. biggrin.gif In all seriousness tho, I've got two and I don't see myself owning more than two full size headphones at any given time... But then again, I have several pairs of IEMs, a couple of clip ons, and two on-ear portables.
Edited by Impulse - 3/23/13 at 8:06pm
post #12539 of 27878
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanek248 View Post

Evshrug

Thank you very much for the detailed response! It helps a lot.

Everything certainly seems a lot clearer and my interest is certainly peaked!

Thanks for the description of Open versus closed. Pretty simple and obvious really.

Im going to look into all the mixamp equivalents you mentioned. What about the tritton amp is it any good? Since I have one... 

Funny, I did my degree and worked in Japan as an EE for a few years. I then returned to Ireland having lost all love for working in the field. Now my wife and I own a Montessori School and a music school in our local shopping Centre. (Mall?). Complete change of pace but I havent looked back once. So I know what you mean about funny directions.
Tritton's processing unit is (afaik) only available in an AX720 headphone bundle, and it's nothing special really. It uses Dolby Headphone, just like the Turtle Beach DSS and Mixamp, but besides the processing, the amp has noise performance below the others. Your Trittons (made by Mad Catz) has the processing built-in in such a way that other headphones can't take advantage of it. By the way, did you read my "article?" One other thing I pointed out was that the headphones like your AX Pros have multiple drivers in the headset to perform surround... Maybe you're used to that by now, but usually each driver isn't as good as a regular one in a stereo headphone, and I talk about why/how 2 headphone speakers can produce surround from any direction... Not just directions corresponding to a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker surround setup, although console games are limited to filtering directional cues through 5.1/7.1 channels. Creative's soundcards for PC (and a few software options) have processing designed from the ground up for headphones and games that can mathematically calculate a sound coming from any direction or elevation. That's the main draw of Creative sound cards, not the EAX that Impulse mentioned (which creates environment sounds, like reverb that sounds like it's coming from inside a cave or grand opera hall). To this day, games are being made that take advantage of the full, 3D sphere of surround, but they're only found on PC, and it's not guaranteed to be included in every AAA game anymore either. But, like PhysX or Tesselation, it's cool when it is there.
post #12540 of 27878
I didn't say EAX was a reason to go with a Creative card, just for the record, said the opposite actually... And CMSS-3D (Creative) may be more advanced than Dolby Headphone (what most everyone else uses), technically speaking, but ultimate it's a subjective thing. Some people prefer one or the other, some are indifferent...

Personally I didn't miss much going to DH (old X-Fi to STX) but I never A/B'd them either and I don't even use it for every game, so YMMV. Ultimately both are based on an HRTF (averaged model) so results are gonna vary from one individual to the next. I think most people would be happy with either tbh.
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