So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!
 
I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).

namelesspfg said:

So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!

I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).

Click to expand...

I would say over half of Marantz's receivers support DH. If the funds are there some of the newer 3d ones support it too. Just look at the specs to make sure.

-Erik

Quote:

burritoboy9984 said:

 
You HAVE to wait until you receive the receiver to sell the mixamp to compare the 2.
 

Click to expand...

 
Quote:

mad lust envy said:

Hmm, we'll see.

Click to expand...

 
x2
 
Otherwise how will I know if the receiver is worth it and sounds any better than the mixamp + headphone amp setup!!

Quote:

mad lust envy said:

The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.

Click to expand...

 
Wait, I thought the point was to just go straight into the reciever HP jack with the headphones and skip the headphone amp....
 
Is double amping the recievers HP jack really going to benefit over just the receiver?
 

I dunno. The amp may have cleaner power, and less output impedance. Amp inputs tend to have a huge impedance, so an earlier device in the chain even with a high output impedance wouldnt affect the frequency curve going into the headphone amp. That means a headphone wouldnt be affected.

Quote:

mad lust envy said:

The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.

Click to expand...

 
Just set it to wherever you set it when your source is the DAC, as that should be close to line level.  For example, with my ODAC the M-stage volume is around 40-50%, 11-12 o'clock.  When I plug in the mixamp, I set the m-stage to aroun 40-50% and then turn up the mixamp until it's the same loudness.  So the mixamp is then outputting a similar strength signal as the ODAC, aka close to line level.
 
Correct?

So it's 2013 and there still aren't any devices that take DD 5.1 via optical or HDMI, encode it into DH stereo via a decent DAC, then output it via RCAs at line level, 3.5mm line out, or even via RCA preamp out?
 
It seems like that would be ideal if you already have an external headphone amp. 
 
Using a full receiver just to encode DH (via the receivers DAC) and get a little cleaner signal out of the HP jack to source to another headphone amp seems silly. 
 
There aren't any tiny receiver like devices that take HDMI (or just optical), encode DH via the DAC, and then output the signal by means of something other than a direct HP jack (RCA or 3.5mm line out)?
 
Using the reciever's HP jack directly to the headphone makes sense, but I don't know squat about how receivers HP jacks sound.  I just know people complain about the high output impedances on them...

Yeah. Thats why id use my external amp, so it can stabilize the frequency response, and feed it to the headphone with its lower output impedance.

LOL... I was off doing some DIY stuff and this happens.
 
I've connected my mstage to my avr247 before. I set the 247 to -5db to 0db and then adjust the rest on the mstage. When I'm playing purely out of hp jack on the receiver, I have it set from anywhere between -15db to -25db depending on which headphone and if I'm chatting with a mic directly hooked up to the controller. To my knowledge 0db is what sound producers master their audio at, I saw this on a youtube video somewhere.
 
tbh, I couldn't really tell if there was a difference adding the mstage into the mix. Then again, I wasn't really seriously trying to find any difference but more for schiits and giggles.

mad lust envy said:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7ojmAQS1s&feature=share[/VIDEO]

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D'aw, this is ridiculously cute. Dunno how I missed it earlier.

chicolom said:

...

Using the reciever's HP jack directly to the headphone makes sense, but I don't know squat about how receivers HP jacks sound.  I just know people complain about the high output impedances on them...

Click to expand...

I don't know what output impedance problems are supposed to sound like, but I've had squat problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) or my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.

I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not

Speaking of my thread, finally finished filling in my first mini-guide and topic on my thread, I can has comments/subscription? http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400

Need moar emphasis to text. [COLOR=FF00AA]MOAR![/COLOR]

Also, your method of finding the line-out volume sounds logical and could be veeeery helpful to people. Do you mind if I quote your post in a later article? You'd be credited, of course.

Quote:

soamusing777 said:

Virtual Surround Sound "Guide" - Need Help!​

 
Hey, do you really hear through walls with Dolby Headphone? Is it really unrealistic? I'm really hating the distortion/reverb (possibly echo too idk) with Silent Cinema.
 
Here's all I know of as far as other options in virtual surround sound (I did this once before, but I'm doing it again anyway). If anyone knows of any more, please let me know.
 
1. Dolby Headphone
2. Silent Cinema - Quite reverby and distorts the sound a bit much for me
3. Thx TruStudio - Can only use 5.1 DD and others have reported the mixamp being better
4. CMSS-3D - N/A - See 8.
5. Random Company's Surround Sound
6. Sony's Implementation - It's very popular, and if it was the best, everyone would use it.
7. MyEars - N/A - See 8. Plus I've heard it sounds crap.
8. Sound Card - Won't work. It's been tested by BurritoBoy.
9. Smyth Realizer - Just totally unrealistic and too expensive for me.
10. DSS - Mixamp is a better version of this.
11. DSS2 - No clue. It only simulates 4 speakers, and if I wanted chat, I'd have to get a Steelseries audio mixer which would introduce hiss on top of whatever the DSS2 is adding and lower overall SQ a little. I'd say other techs are better, plus, I just don't like TB, too mainstream.
 
Leaving
 
1. Dolby Headphone
2. Random Company's Surround Sound
 
I'd give up my current receiver to get a Harmon Kardon AVR with DH, unless anyone can guide me to some Random Company's Surround Sound that is any good?

Click to expand...

Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.
FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR.  Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.

deathdealer623 said:

Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.
FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR.  Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.

Click to expand...

That sounds very promising. Especially since the timing comes very close to the impending Steam Box (might be called the Piston?), a small-sized PC built expressly to run games from Valve's Steam store. If the Steam box has headphone surround and people take notice (and it's not too hard to enable in games), it would be a major competitive advantage among all the other stuff PCs do better versus the next-gen consoles. Especially since there is speculation that there won't be too much graphically to set any one console apart from another.

Just.
ONE.
Console.
Has.
To.
Do.
It!


This is very relevant to the current topic on my thread... Just saying.

Also, SoAmusing's post kinda rubs me the wrong way. Seems to misrepresent stuff, very black-and-white. I hope I don't regret saying so in the morning, but maybe... Relax, a little? You may wish you hadn't spent so much money and worry, some day. Remember, they're just first world problems

Quote:

impulse said:

Couldn't a cheap Xonar actually do DH for you JHalf and output it thru optical? Edit: or your Phoebus for that matter... Not too clear on what you have already after re-reading your post... M-stage + Phoebus + an old receiver?

Click to expand...

The Phoebus doesnt have DH, it has Dolby Home theater V4, and I don't like it very much.
 
Right now I am using Phoebus-> Optical out with the DHTV4 processing-> Old Pioneer receiver-> Headphone out.
 
 
M-Stage is on the way.
 
I was going to return the pheobus and get a DGX for the DH when my amp camp, but then wanted to invest in a better DAC. But it doesnt seem like there are any in my price range, that are optical in, and run off AC power.

^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?

I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).

*sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh

Quote:

evshrug said:

^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?

I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).

*sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh

Click to expand...

 
Yes I wrote about the Phoebus a while back.
 
For you or anyone else that cares, i will reiterate my thoughts so far:
 
My old Logitech G35 used Dolby Headphone, and i loved it. I was going to get the Xonar STX when my annies came because I could have picked it up at Microcenter, and just waited until my headphone amp and another DAC came, at which point I would return the STX and get a DGX (far cheaper), and a better DAC.
 
Microcenter didn't have the STX, but they had the Phoebus, so I decided to try it, because it had similar hardware components as the STX. It differs from the STX though by not having Dolby headphone, but HTV4. My best guess is that I dont like HTV4 because
 
HTV4: Takes stereo audio-> upmixes to some kind of surround-> then down mixes to stereo, where as
 
DH: takes 5.1 signal-> down mixes to stereo, and sounds much better IMO
 
 
 
My thoughts may be incorrect though, because reading the Marantz manual, it didn't say anything about what inputs it would take, just that when you plug in your headphones the reciever swtiches to DH.
 
This worries me because if I was correct in saying that DH takes a legit 5.1 signal and downmixes it to stereo, you would have to use an input source that can transmit a 5.1 pcm signal (i.e. HDMI). Optical cannot send a full 5.1 signal, but I am guessing since the manual didnt specify, this DH feature would be turned on even if you used optical input, throwing away my idea.
 
Then theres the whole DDL through optical that could work... oh boy too much to figure out.
 
 
Ill have to see MLE impressions with the Marantz and his Headphone amp before figuring out what to do.