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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (5/31/2015: Beyer COP+ and Shure 1540 added) - Page 1636

post #24526 of 31572
Will the e9 work I seen MLE say the e9 does nothing for the q701 ? I'm not sure what to get everyone says different things
post #24527 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by imac2much View Post

*snip*
...or the E17 so I can use that with my iPhone as well).  
Just pointing out again, the E17 does work as an amp for the iPhone, but you can't directly connect the iPhone to use the E17's DAC without extra accessories (a camera kit adapter, and a USB hub, there's a how-to thread on Head-Fi but it's not a function officially supported by Apple or FiiO).

Hope I didn't info overload on you. If you do end up getting a SoundMagic, tell is your impressions! It can be a fun community here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreyka View Post


E9 has an output impedance more than 10x higher than the Magni or O2.
True, but that's only because the E09k or older E9 have (just) 10 ohms output impedance. I don't know about new models, but all the iPod classics, for example, have a 10 ohm output impedance too. The E9 is powerful enough, kind of a warm-ish amp and a bit less transparent than other options, whether it enhances what is great about the Q701 (or evens out weaknesses) is up to personal taste and what you're looking for. I would recommend a tube amp like the Schiit Vali, but that's because I like the sense of soundstage and texture/impact I hear in tubes (that aren't too warm).

AKG headphones, like G3org3's, have a linear impedance response, so output impedance has a negligible effect.

Sennheisers (like the one NwAvGuy tested and then assumed all other headphones were like) aren't linear, and the bass gets boosted (sometimes to the point where it bloats) and so does high treble, kinda like a rough EQ setting. Some people like that kind of sound (that's what Bose's "better sound through research" lead them to aim their house sound to be like, warm and a bit boomy), but in any case it's not the death knell that NwAvGuy makes it out to be and the myth that grew up around that assumption. Most people who say "you need 8x impedance dampening" can't even say WHAT HAPPENS and why... but don't take my word for it, try doing some research into it smily_headphones1.gif
post #24528 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


Just pointing out again, the E17 does work as an amp for the iPhone, but you can't directly connect the iPhone to use the E17's DAC without extra accessories (a camera kit adapter, and a USB hub, there's a how-to thread on Head-Fi but it's not a function officially supported by Apple or FiiO).

Hope I didn't info overload on you. If you do end up getting a SoundMagic, tell is your impressions! It can be a fun community here.
True, but that's only because the E09k or older E9 have (just) 10 ohms output impedance. I don't know about new models, but all the iPod classics, for example, have a 10 ohm output impedance too. The E9 is powerful enough, kind of a warm-ish amp and a bit less transparent than other options, whether it enhances what is great about the Q701 (or evens out weaknesses) is up to personal taste and what you're looking for. I would recommend a tube amp like the Schiit Vali, but that's because I like the sense of soundstage and texture/impact I hear in tubes (that aren't too warm).

AKG headphones, like G3org3's, have a linear impedance response, so output impedance has a negligible effect.

Sennheisers (like the one NwAvGuy tested and then assumed all other headphones were like) aren't linear, and the bass gets boosted (sometimes to the point where it bloats) and so does high treble, kinda like a rough EQ setting. Some people like that kind of sound (that's what Bose's "better sound through research" lead them to aim their house sound to be like, warm and a bit boomy), but in any case it's not the death knell that NwAvGuy makes it out to be and the myth that grew up around that assumption. Most people who say "you need 8x impedance dampening" can't even say WHAT HAPPENS and why... but don't take my word for it, try doing some research into it smily_headphones1.gif


That helps explains why AKGs and Senns tend to react so differently to amplification, seems there is a big misconception about amplification among many people. I noticed AKGs and other headphones I have tried just don't seem to care much about output impedance. I've read that with the K601/K612 for example that the best output impedance is actually 120 ohms for them.

 

I prefer tubes for the same reasons, there is a roundness and texture to the sound, as well as better impact(on the good tubes/amps), and just a better sense of soundstage(more 3D) and imaging. They just sound more organic and real to me. Can't wait to when I get the Project Ember in a couple months.


Edited by kman1211 - 7/11/14 at 5:13pm
post #24529 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post


That helps explains why AKGs and Senns tend to react so differently to amplification, seems there is a big misconception about amplification among many people. I noticed AKGs and other headphones I have tried just don't seem to care much about output impedance. I've read that with the K601/K612 for example that the best output impedance is actually 120 ohms for them.
**The best way to know is to try it yourself wink.gif
120 ohms was kind of a historical thing, I have research notes about it that I can't fully recall off the top of my head. Many old receivers had 120 ohm output impedance (or more), still sound fine. The science can help cut through snake oil and myths, but you don't want to get TOO obsessed because it'll get in the way of enjoying the music or the awesome crack of the Battle Rifle in the Halo 2 Anniversary videos.

Headroom and Inner Fidelity make a lot of measurements and graphs for individual headphones, the best way to check to see if a headphone will react to output impedance is to check the impedance response graphs. The flatter the graph, the less measurable effect on different frequencies. I was surprised how many headphone brands/models are also pretty linear! Usually flaws are due to other reasons, if we don't know what low ohm dampening does then it's easy to scapegoat it and miss out on fine products that HAPPEN to have some output impedance.


I prefer tubes for the same reasons, there is a roundness and texture to the sound, as well as better impact(on the good tubes/amps), and just a better sense of soundstage(more 3D) and imaging. They just sound more organic and real to me. Can't wait to when I get the Project Ember in a couple months.
OOOH, if I didn't have my current amp I'd be all over that Amber! As it is, my next upgrade would be a Woo Audio fireflies or something, but at present I don't have an upgrade bug smily_headphones1.gif

DT880's should arrive tomorrow... Probably will be more of a sidegrade to broaden my perspective and collection.
post #24530 of 31572
For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125

http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100
post #24531 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post
 
**The best way to know is to try it yourself wink.gif
120 ohms was kind of a historical thing, I have research notes about it that I can't fully recall off the top of my head. Many old receivers had 120 ohm output impedance (or more), still sound fine. The science can help cut through snake oil and myths, but you don't want to get TOO obsessed because it'll get in the way of enjoying the music or the awesome crack of the Battle Rifle in the Halo 2 Anniversary videos.

Headroom and Inner Fidelity make a lot of measurements and graphs for individual headphones, the best way to check to see if a headphone will react to output impedance is to check the impedance response graphs. The flatter the graph, the less measurable effect on different frequencies. I was surprised how many headphone brands/models are also pretty linear! Usually flaws are due to other reasons, if we don't know what low ohm dampening does then it's easy to scapegoat it and miss out on fine products that HAPPEN to have some output impedance.

OOOH, if I didn't have my current amp I'd be all over that Amber! As it is, my next upgrade would be a Woo Audio fireflies or something, but at present I don't have an upgrade bug smily_headphones1.gif

DT880's should arrive tomorrow... Probably will be more of a sidegrade to broaden my perspective and collection.

That is true, it's why it's best to hold off on coming to conclusions before listening to something. Preferably multiple examples and a lot of time and experience. I came to my conclusions on tubes vs SS for example after listening to numerous amps both tube, hybrid, and SS from low-end to top of the line. I personally stopped caring much about specs and focused on how it sounded and if I could hear any differences or not. True it does get in the way of enjoyment. I think focusing too much on specs on a heavily subjective hobby can cause problems, especially if they get too emotionally involved with the specifications

 

True, I do like looking at graphs to get a general idea, I need to look at the impedance response graphs more. I found distortion and frequency graphs to be unreliable at times for me. That is true.

 

Yeah, I am thinking about the Valhalla 2 as well, but I need to wait on impressions on the amp, but considering how much difference tubes can make it can be hard. The Project Ember will likely be the amp I'll get. I realized on my EF2A the first tubes I bought for the amp, the RTC were the best tubes I have, the stocks are meh, and the other two are good but too headphone dependent and lack the impact, power, body, and tonal balance the RTCs have. Regarding the WA7, I would personally go for the WA6 over it as I find it sounds better, the WA2 or WA6SE are even better.

 

I enjoyed the DT 880 when it was amped right, although I'm not near as familiar with it as the DT 990.

post #24532 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post

For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125

http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100

^sometimes low-priced items (especially if you're used to higher costs) can blow you away with their value.


Kman1211,
One of the reasons I like tube amps is how much the tube is the heart of how good the amp sounds, and you can change or upgrade the sound with the right tube. All this talk is making me wanna put my Sylvania tube back in and play some CoD4, for nostalgia (and wrecking!) sake.

PS, do you have a PS4, and beta code for Destiny?
Edited by Evshrug - 7/11/14 at 6:55pm
post #24533 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post

For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125

http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100

Oh that's a steal!

post #24534 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


^sometimes low-priced items (especially if you're used to higher costs) can blow you away with their value.


Kman1211,
One of the reasons I like tube amps is how much the tube is the heart of how good the amp sounds, and you can change or upgrade the sound with the right tube. All this talk is making me wanna put my Sylvania tube back in and play some CoD4, for nostalgia (and wrecking!) sake.

PS, do you have a PS4, and beta code for Destiny?


That is true, the tube is largely much of what makes the amp sound so good, especially if the amp itself is well done, it's quite fun to tube roll, although I like to limit myself to maybe 2-4 sets of tubes per amp as it can get out of hand. This difference can be a bit more noticeable with all-tube amps.

 

No sadly, I'm a PC gamer and don't own any current or last gen consoles.

post #24535 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post

For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125

http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100

Yep, I PMed him yesterday :)

Hopefully I will be able to buy these headphones from him!

post #24536 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by imac2much View Post

Yep, I PMed him yesterday smily_headphones1.gif
Hopefully I will be able to buy these headphones from him!

Good luck! Make sure you come back with impressions if you do get them. I can foresee you becoming a regular around here, like Stillhart... though your wallet may regret it tongue.gif
post #24537 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3org3 View Post

Will the e9 work I seen MLE say the e9 does nothing for the q701 ? I'm not sure what to get everyone says different things

 

Quote:
 Cons:

- 10 ohm output impedance. Most headphones with less than 80ohm may have an altered sound signature due to not enough damping. Some exceptions are Planars and the Q701/K701 which aren't affected. However, you may want to look at another external amp if you plan on using low ohm headphones

 

 

I believe MLE was saying that the sound signature of low impedance headphones could be altered (perhaps negatively) due to inadequate dampening, but the K701/Q701s were not affected by this issue. Not that the E9 didn't drive them adequately. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

post #24538 of 31572

Hey guys, I'd like to get some feedback.  I finally closed the deal with the HP100 seller today, so hopefully I will get these headphones next week!

 

So I did some research on my Xonar U3 and the Sound Blaster Omni.  Assuming these are the external equivalents of the Xonar DG and Sound Blaster Z, they seem to both use the same CS4398 DAC.  Thus in terms of DAC, they are exactly the same.  As others have noted, the Xonar U3/DG has a horrible (or nearly nonexistent) amp with 100 ohm impedance, while Z's is 22 ohm impedance and is "rated" for headphones with up to 600 ohms.

 

So here's my question: To me, maybe my ears are still new to good headphones, but Dolby Headphone and THX/SB surround seems like a wash.  I already have a U3 so I can either use this as just a DAC or just replace it with an Omni.

 

With a budget of ~$100 (give or take), should I just get the Omni to use as DAC + Amp, or is there a separate Amp I can use in conjunction with my U3 DAC that would sound better than the Omni?  I'd prefer a desktop amp as I will not use this with my iphone, but I'd prefer something compact as it needs to fit in my luggage overseas (and my suitcases are jam packed as it is).

 

Thanks so much!

post #24539 of 31572
So I decided to go for the schiit vali amp for my q701s does the vali come with the cable to connect to the mixamp or do I need to buy that separate ? And if so what's the cable called ?
post #24540 of 31572
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3org3 View Post

So I decided to go for the schiit vali amp for my q701s does the vali come with the cable to connect to the mixamp or do I need to buy that separate ? And if so what's the cable called ?

You need 3.5mm minijack male to rca male cable like this one:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2

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