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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (5/31/2015: Beyer COP+ and Shure 1540 added) - Page 1541

post #23101 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post

I had issues with fatigue on the MA900 oddly on everything I plugged it into, some odd grain in the upper mids and lower treble that really wore me out and it became worse the more often I used the headphone, it's why I ultimately gave the headphone away. The only time the K612 was fatiguing to me was on the amps or tubes it didn't like. I have heard other people complain fatigue on the MA900 too. Quite interesting how different headphones effect different people.

That is true. It's why there is so much debate about what flagship headphones to get. Some will swear by a headphone and others will absolutely hate the same headphone on the same setup. Every reviewer has their biases, no matter how unbiased they try to be. The problem with getting into high-end audio is that it's so much about trail and error finding what you want, this is basically what we call the audiophile journey. Sometimes experiencing something new in audio may completely shatter your long-held beliefs about something and go against what you read about something or even previous experience with something.

It's funny as I don't find MA900 nearly as fatiguing as K612.
But I am sensitive to sibilance. Both perform very well to my ears. Different signatures. But K612 has more sibilance than MA900. Everything else is satisfactory and up, just that...
But as people say, nearly all neutral dynamic headphones have a bit of a harshness or sibilance in the treble though I'd much prefer the former to the latter.
Plus, I am sensitive to it so...
Edited by conquerator2 - 4/20/14 at 1:39am
post #23102 of 31305

Comparisons and preference is one thing, ending the review by stating to go for the latter, instead, is another.

It basically kills the whole point of you saying its a great headphone. Which, as a result, kills the whole point of me sending it in. Why bother sending in a headphone I know people will love as much as the MA900 and X1 (if not better) if you're just going to steer people away from it because YOU PREFER the latter.

I mean, did you do so in the MA900 and X1 reviews? As awesome as those headphones are, did you end their reviews in that same similar fashion. If I can recall, the K612 is more technically refined than those two. Yet, it doesn't get the same love... and won't because of how specific you are in telling people to go for the latter. You may as well put that at the end of every review from now on.

But you're right, damned if you do and damned if you don't. This is your thread... and the way you review really is changing I guess...

Remember... no beef. I'm just stating my opinion...

 

You know what? I apologize... I'm not going to criticize you for how you review things. You put too much work and dedication for anyone as myself to do so. This is just like any other review site, visitors must read at their own risk... :tongue:


Edited by Change is Good - 4/20/14 at 2:07am
post #23103 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post


It's funny as I don't find MA900 nearly as fatiguing as K612.
But I am sensitive to sibilance. Both perform very well to my ears. Different signatures. But K612 has more sibilance than MA900. Everything else is satisfactory and up, just that...
But as people say, nearly all neutral dynamic headphones have a bit of a harshness or sibilance in the treble though I'd much prefer the former to the latter.
Plus, I am sensitive to it so...


It is kind of weird. I have noticed that seems to be a drawback with neutral dynamic headphones, system matching is vital with anything neutral. I am sensitive to harsh sibilance. Some sibilance bothers me, other types of sibilance doesn't. It's kind of weird. When a headphone bothers me sonically it causes my ears to clog up and eventual ear pain some reason leading to temporary channel imbalances(where the center is behind my right or left ear, usually right) in my hearing which is incredibly annoying. The K612 is one of the only headphones I owned that doesn't do that to me.

post #23104 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post


It is kind of weird. I have noticed that seems to be a drawback with neutral dynamic headphones, system matching is vital with anything neutral. I am sensitive to harsh sibilance. Some sibilance bothers me, other types of sibilance doesn't. It's kind of weird. When a headphone bothers me sonically it causes my ears to clog up and eventual ear pain some reason leading to temporary channel imbalances(where the center is behind my right or left ear, usually right) in my hearing which is incredibly annoying. The K612 is one of the only headphones I owned that doesn't do that to me.

FWIW, my K612 pairs well with the Asgard 2 and its natural warmth.
post #23105 of 31305
Thread Starter 
I wrote the MA900 and X1 reviews before I added these new sections. Anyways, since I'm heavily biased towards the K712/Annie I'll go ahead and remove any mention of any other headphone in every review, and just stick to reviewing the headphone, and when people ask me what I would choose, I'll let them come up with their own conclusions.
post #23106 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post


FWIW, my K612 pairs well with the Asgard 2 and its natural warmth.


They do pair well with warmth and/or smoothness. I need to try them on the Asgard 2 sometime. My current tubes on my EF2A give the K612 a crystalline, clean, and smooth nature. My other tubes that I like with them, give them a more lush, warm, and musical sound. I do want to upgrade my amp sometime, no hurry though as I am quite satisfied with the K612 and my amp pairing for my main headphone. Will likely upgrade my dac first as my main dac has some slight harshness to it but I use it because of it's warmth and body.

post #23107 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I wrote the MA900 and X1 reviews before I added these new sections. Anyways, since I'm heavily biased towards the K712/Annie I'll go ahead and remove any mention of any other headphone in every review, and just stick to reviewing the headphone, and when people ask me what I would choose, I'll let them come up with their own conclusions.

Honestly, because of that heavy bias, I predicted this the moment Ev decided to send his K712 in at the same time. If the K612 would have arrived alone, like it was supposes to the first time I sent it, the review would have been much less biased... and more people would be inclined to get them.

Instead, everyone is just jumping on the K712 and overlooking the K612. The whole point of me sending it in was so it would stop being overlooked like it is. Didn't work, I guess lol
Edited by Change is Good - 4/20/14 at 2:40am
post #23108 of 31305

Hi. Need a closed headphone with decent - good isolation and works well with dolby headphone. Would you guys say the alpha dog meets these requirements? What else would be recommended. 

 

Max budget is the price of the alpha dogs. 

post #23109 of 31305
alpha Dogs is the best you can get for that price...
post #23110 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post


I love the MA900 for music on the go. I mean it's smooth, it's musical. Not great for reference listening but great for casual one.
The K612 is more technically advanced and better suited for gaming imo but if your gear does not tame the treble sibilance well it's a very fatiguing headphone.
MA900 and K612 are two very different headphones and both have their place here. They get equal footing from me and obviously get different usage.

 

I found MA900 is the more fatiguing comparing with 612pro. even on the E17, I don't find it sibilance at all. 612pro treble is more smooth and detailed comparing with MA900, to me, 612pro completely outclassed MA900 now in all aspects. considering the current price tag, I think 612pro clearly deserve more attention. 

post #23111 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEarsMan View Post
 

Hi. Need a closed headphone with decent - good isolation and works well with dolby headphone. Would you guys say the alpha dog meets these requirements? What else would be recommended. 

 

Max budget is the price of the alpha dogs. 

 

A second vote here for the Alpha Dogs. Some people love the S-Logic aspect of Ultrasone headphones, you can get a Pro 900 in that price range as well. And MLE has a review of them on the first page. It's a pretty fun can, but the S-Logic is polarizing; either you love it or hate it. The Alphas are incredible closed cans and you'll be happy with them as long as you're ok with a wait to get them. They're definitely worth the wait, that's for sure.

post #23112 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelCloris View Post

A second vote here for the Alpha Dogs. Some people love the S-Logic aspect of Ultrasone headphones, you can get a Pro 900 in that price range as well. And MLE has a review of them on the first page. It's a pretty fun can, but the S-Logic is polarizing; either you love it or hate it. The Alphas are incredible closed cans and you'll be happy with them as long as you're ok with a wait to get them. They're definitely worth the wait, that's for sure.

God no please not the 900... It's a good gaming headphone but it's 'polarizing' treble still give me nightmares.
post #23113 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

People always want comparisons. Now if i make comparisons and have a bias towards one, it will come off as the other one not being worth listening to.
MLE,
I wouldn't worry too much about it... I mean, we get your opinion which is pretty consistent, and several thread regulars (where's Chico been lately?) who share other tastes on balance. I think it's pretty easy to agree that a headphone is overall GOOD or unrefined, beyond that though everyone has a personal taste that will make "favourites."

Everyone,
It's like kman1211 said, everyone is going to have their own audiophile journey. I have people come to my electronics store and often ask what headphones to buy, and I always point out a few mid-Fi options in the $100-$200 range that will set a baseline for GOOD (and relatively refined) sound that won't break the bank. I tell them that this is a good price range to play in, to learn what their preferences are. And then get an amp and stuff to fill out their system. Don't splash big right away, because it's easy to misjudge what you prefer on your first upgrade away from earbuds (cuz you need almost everything improved).

Mad,
your tonal preference is mostly for a gentle V-shaped frequency curve, and you like a little extra (but finely done) bass to kick it up a notch (not too much to give you a headache), but sometimes you'll be surprised by a unique character and really like it (hd650, MA900). That's a pretty good sign of knowing-yourself with a dash of open-mindedness IMO, though I know your ultimate holy grail would be Denon D7000 sound with velour Earpad comfort, that can easily be worn while laying in bed smily_headphones1.gif I say that you are easy enough to figure out your preferences, you also state pros and cons, and that most adults will be able to take what they need from your review. The few people who can't analyze for themselves and look for someone else's idea of "the best," well... they're gonna need to make mistakes anyway to learn. Meanwhile, a wise man once told me that you can't help including subjective opinion in reviews, and honestly I think it's more interesting to read when you hear/see one aspect you really like or dislike. It gets the conversation and debate going, keeps the thread lively.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post

It is kind of weird. I have noticed that seems to be a drawback with neutral dynamic headphones, system matching is vital with anything neutral. I am sensitive to harsh sibilance. Some sibilance bothers me, other types of sibilance doesn't. It's kind of weird. When a headphone bothers me sonically it causes my ears to clog up and eventual ear pain some reason leading to temporary channel imbalances(where the center is behind my right or left ear, usually right) in my hearing which is incredibly annoying. The K612 is one of the only headphones I owned that doesn't do that to me.
I have a friend like that at work. He's really big into playing CS:GO, but I had to take great care in picking a headphone to suggest to him because most of the (gamer) headsets he'd tried so far had the exact same sibilance effect on him, and his ears would clog up with extra earwax (a sign of the body trying to protect from hearing damage). CS:GO is like his fav game, but it's VERY treble harsh (& surprisingly not great with sound positioning IMO), so I recommended darker headphones (IMO the MA900 as well as the usual Sennheisers are "polite"). It'll be interesting to hear the K612 soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post

Honestly, because of that heavy bias, I predicted this the moment Ev decided to send his K712 in at the same time. If the K612 would have arrived alone, like it was supposes to the first time I sent it, the review would have been much less biased... and more people would be inclined to get them.

Instead, everyone is just jumping on the K712 and overlooking the K612. The whole point of me sending it in was so it would stop being overlooked like it is. Didn't work, I guess lol

You know, I hear baby powder is good to help prevent getting a wedgie wink.gif
Jk, love ya dude. Also, I think you originally pitched the idea to me of sending both (like back in October or something?) and when the cat was outta the bag, Mad and others were much more excited to hear the K612, while the K712 had a much more lukewarm "well you can send it if you really want..."

But anyway, there's nothing to fret about. We've seen like three people go "OOOH, New hotness, THIS is the affordable 'best' headphone," but tons of people lurk this thread and make up their own budget/mind. See my paragraph above about how I recommend headphones to others... The K612 is one of several very good options, pretty upscale, and I haven't heard it yet to know if I'd prefer it BUT it is a generally very strong headphone on paper since it is balanced and neutral, maybe not the loudest off of an iPod but should be very clean and well-dampened while also encouraging users to explore the other benefits of amping... maybe they occasionally want a bit more volume and then OH WAIT I HEAR BONUS BENEFITS! And the learning lightbulb comes on.

So yeah, I'd say the K612 fills the void in the $150-199 price spot created when the MA900 was discontinued and the price hiked up, and a satisfying second or even first headphone upgrade. I'm still stoked to hear it! But don't take it personally if others prefer something else o_O
post #23114 of 31305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

I have a friend like that at work. He's really big into playing CS:GO, but I had to take great care in picking a headphone to suggest to him because most of the (gamer) headsets he'd tried so far had the exact same sibilance effect on him, and his ears would clog up with extra earwax (a sign of the body trying to protect from hearing damage). CS:GO is like his fav game, but it's VERY treble harsh (& surprisingly not great with sound positioning IMO), so I recommended darker headphones (IMO the MA900 as well as the usual Sennheisers are "polite"). It'll be interesting to hear the K612 soon.
 

 

I had some issues with the MA900 in the long run sadly. Senns are generally fine in terms of not causing me problems, I don't like many Senns though. The HD 6xx family are some of the only Senns I like. I have a previous generation of the the HD 600/650 coming in here soon, the HD 545, curious how similar it sounds. The K612 isn't what I consider a polite headphone as it's quite revealing, it's just non-fatiguing to me. I can usually tell within a few days to a week or two if a headphone is going to cause me problems in the long run. I do sometimes want a fun and bright sound though, that's what my MB Quart QP 220 is for.

post #23115 of 31305

As much as it sucks for my wallet, I have to agree that taking the "audiophile journey" is the only way to really tell what you're going to like in the end.  It's all very subjective and it turns out that my personal tastes don't line up with a lot of people's (THX > DH, Q701 > X1, etc).

 

The great thing is that once you understand your own personal tastes, it's a lot easier to interpret other people's subjective reviews.  I don't know that I'm there 100% yet, as I've only tried 3 headphones in this thread.  But already I'm starting to get an idea of what turns me on (clear, detailed, bright presentation) and I realize it's not actually the same as what MLE likes. 

 

 

His top 10 lists do me no good.  I have to go through and read the reviews in detail to understand what he's describing to decide for myself.

 

I realize now that he's been saying that for ages; it's right there at the top of the reviews.  The problem is that I didn't UNDERSTAND it until I took started the journey myself. 

 

All that said, though, I think a lot of people (myself included) overanalyze this decision.  If you're looking to get into your first audiophile headphone for gaming, just pick a budget and then pick something with a good review.  I kinda like what Nameless did in his guide.  There's a tl;dr right at the top.  I'd add something like that to this guide like:

 

"If you're here to find the best gaming headphone and just want to cut to the chase, here's a quick summary.  Astro's are overpriced.  If your budget is $150-200, get a K612.  If your budget is $200-300, get an X1.  If your budget is $300-400, get a Q701 (do the bass mod) and a Schiit Vali.  If you'd rather read all the details and make your own decision, read on..."

 

(You know, obviously you can pick your own recommendations, but you get the idea.)

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