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post #22846 of 30372
No, EAX and OpenAL are different. EAX is environmental effects like cave-like reverb. I used bad word choice to say "environmental reflection" before. I discovered all this after both techs were basically extinct/endangered, so I'm not a master of it, but FWIR EAX is just "You're in a cave? Sound echos like you were in a cave. You're in a carpet store? It sounds like that environment," while OpenAL was more complex about figuring out where the sound was coming from and what it would have to do to get to each ear.
post #22847 of 30372

Followed your giude and bought the AD700 + Turtle Beach DSS2 with Bassboost. The sound coming out of this combo is just bloody insane.

The DSS2 really help the AD700 to fill in a lot of weight to the sound.


Edited by nickie - 4/11/14 at 10:55am
post #22848 of 30372

EAX needs to be accessed through OpenAL or DirectSound3D, but EAX itself is NOT OpenAL or DirectSound3D, which are primarily APIs to facilitate the placement of sounds in 3D space.

 

OpenAL doesn't even need the proprietary EAX, really; it's been displaced by the newer EFX, which tends to be supported on non-Creative OpenAL renderers like Rapture3D.

 

All of that said, while both the old DS3D/OAL APIs and AMD's new TrueAudio API were generally designed with hardware DSPs in mind, the fundamental approach appears to be quite different.

 

DS3D and OAL appear to be about letting the game engine talk directly to the audio device driver in terms of where sounds are located in 3D space, and then the audio device driver determines what to do with those sounds from there, how they should be mixed and played.

 

TrueAudio appears to be more of a CPU alternative solution for sound mixing within the game engine ala FMOD Ex and Wwise, which could allow more consistency and flexibility on the developer's part. However, this means that developers do have to know what they're doing when it comes to mixing audio properly for headphones (something that AstoundSound and similar plugins are supposed to resolve), and if there's no CPU fallback with the same quality, even if it takes up a ton of CPU cycles, this could cause some undesirable vendor lock-in to truly max out a game.

 

All of that said, it's probably better that we take this discussion over to my guide thread, since Mad Lust Envy's always been more console-centric.

post #22849 of 30372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalmhardcore View Post
 

I seem to vaguely remember reading a discussion about how Creative used to have a particular kind of sound technology that was abandoned. I remember the guy was basically saying that he thought Creative isn't as good as they used to be. This sound tech apparently even simulated the Doppler effect.

It must have been open AL the guy was talking about. He seemed pretty annoyed that game audio had taken, what he considered to be, a huge step backwards.

post #22850 of 30372

Originally posted by Evshrug.. PS4 is my first Playstation! I couldn't stand the previous controller's ergonomics... in fact I still personally wish the underside of the PS4 controller was more fleshed out, perhaps Scuf Gaming will do that for me once they release their PS4 controller mod.   I don't like the analogue sticks that much(a tiny bit too long and a bit rubbery)..really i should say that I preferred the ones on the xbox 360 controller..i have crouched down by mistake a few times on battlefield 4..but that's what my gaming pc is for so I am not that bothered,.any other game that i have played they seem to be ok!


Edited by martin vegas - 4/11/14 at 12:02pm
post #22851 of 30372
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post


TrueAudio appears to be more of a CPU alternative solution...

All of that said, it's probably better that we take this discussion over to my guide thread, since Mad Lust Envy's always been more console-centric.
Probably better on your thread, except that now that you said it here, people are going to get the wrong impression.

TrueAudio, as we're talking about it as only available on AMD hardware in a few of their graphics cards and the PS4, requires dedicated Tensilica audio processors (hardware) to process the surround, so it IS "locked" to AMD hardware and it DOES NOT take away CPU resources, just like the Creative hardware processors on X-Fi PCI cards and SoundCore3D sound cards.

I'm not as well read up on DS3D and OpenAL vs FMOD Ex and Wwise, and I recommend anyone curious to go research more in-depth, but I suspect they all get the data about "where a sound originates in 3D space" before creating a stereo or surround mix since TrueAudio/AstoundSound documents distinctly show (by block diagram) that the processing is performed before separating into output channels.

(Dolby headphone is processed after a 5.1 channel Dolby Digital Live mix, as far as a console is concerned the audio processing is already "done" by the time it gets piped out through optical or HDMI)
post #22852 of 30372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Dude, if you game on PC, don't use the Mixamp. AT cheapest, get a Xonar U3. If you have an optical dac (cheapest being a Fiio D03k), you can completely bypass the Xonar's amp and dac, and just send the Dolby Headphone signal to your own amp/dac. I have one, and I send the signal to my Fiio E17 amp/dac (which has an optical input). Sounds great, and the U3 is hella cheap.

It's not worth spending more on a better pc device, since you only need it to send the signal to your own amp/dac. U3 is a perfect choice.

I really need to add it to my guide.

 

How does one do this?

post #22853 of 30372

Hi everyone,

 

After reading some posts and asking some of my own questions and getting very useful answers, I think I'm going to make my first foray into DH audio cheaply at first, with a DSS 1 amp and a Superlux HD668b, and then upgrade later to a K612,K712,Q701,X1, or… ???

 

Questions: 1. why is a Mixamp so much more expensive than a DSS 1? Is it superior audio, or is it the ability to handle voice audio well? I do not care about in game chat at all. Mixamp is like at least $105 used, DSS 1 is $30, DSS 2 is like $65.

 

2. MLE quoted a 1/8 rule for impedance. The Superlux HD668b is 56 ohms (while the identical Samson SR850 is 32 ohms, what's with that?) so does that mean the DSS 1 amp, whose impedance *I cannot find online* but is probably more than 10 ohms, would be unsuitable?

 

3. I want to start budget. So…. HD668b, SR850, or EVO 681?

post #22854 of 30372
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

How does one do this?

The Xonar software has options that you can set. You can tell the U3 to send out an untouched Dolby Digital signal, a PCM stereo signal, or a signal laced with Dolby headphone (basically enabling PCM and clicking on the Dolby headphone button (making sure you choose DH-2, NEVER DH-3.)

Since optical is all digital, there is no processing done with the U3's internal dac or amp, allowing you to decode the signal with your own amp/dac. Trust me, it's great. I wish console devices could do this. Helps that the U3 is sooooo cheap.
post #22855 of 30372
Some SRH1540s are being sold in the classifieds... for a good price, too... though that was their Black Friday price from a few places in November.

Edit: have you guys read the HP100 review on the front page? Y'all sleepin' on SoundMAGIC...
Edited by Change is Good - 4/11/14 at 3:24pm
post #22856 of 30372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Probably better on your thread, except that now that you said it here, people are going to get the wrong impression.

TrueAudio, as we're talking about it as only available on AMD hardware in a few of their graphics cards and the PS4, requires dedicated Tensilica audio processors (hardware) to process the surround, so it IS "locked" to AMD hardware and it DOES NOT take away CPU resources, just like the Creative hardware processors on X-Fi PCI cards and SoundCore3D sound cards.

I'm not as well read up on DS3D and OpenAL vs FMOD Ex and Wwise, and I recommend anyone curious to go research more in-depth, but I suspect they all get the data about "where a sound originates in 3D space" before creating a stereo or surround mix since TrueAudio/AstoundSound documents distinctly show (by block diagram) that the processing is performed before separating into output channels.

(Dolby headphone is processed after a 5.1 channel Dolby Digital Live mix, as far as a console is concerned the audio processing is already "done" by the time it gets piped out through optical or HDMI)
Let me clarify that statement on TrueAudio: when I said it was a "CPU-alternative approach", I meant it in much the same fashion as how DirectSound3D had a very crappy software renderer with hardware acceleration on sound card DSPs of the era. No sound card, no effects.

But that approach was a bit more dependent on the sound card's audio processing capabilities, especially with Aureal and Creative pitching A3D and EAX respectively. TrueAudio should allow more flexibility for the developer WHILE offloading the audio processing from the CPU.

I'd just want to see better software rendering fallbacks for AstoundSound and other TrueAudio-enabled middleware plugins, that's all. NVIDIA users probably wouldn't like being left out of TrueAudio-only features the same way AMD users don't like being left out of CUDA and PhysX-exclusive effects, and I'm expecting that with modern programming tools, they can effectively write once and just compile for each target platform.

By the way, your final paragraph in parentheses was perfect in conveying why we can't just get proper 3D audio in existing console games. It's already mixed and processed for speakers at that point, and no external surround processor is going to make more out of it than what's there.
Edited by NamelessPFG - 4/11/14 at 3:56pm
post #22857 of 30372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Change is Good View Post

Some SRH1540s are being sold in the classifieds... for a good price, too... though that was their Black Friday price from a few places in November.

 

Looks like these just got reviewed at innerfidelity, too...

 

post #22858 of 30372
Thread Starter 
That graph looks remarkably similar to the X1s... intredasting. Too bad the 1540 is so expensive. Looks like an ideal closed headphone otherwise.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 4/11/14 at 4:22pm
post #22859 of 30372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

That graph looks remarkably similar to the X1s... intredasting. Too bad the 1540 is so expensive. Looks like an ideal closed headphone otherwise.

 

I checked my receipt the other day, and I noticed I've had them for 6 months... :eek:

post #22860 of 30372
Thread Starter 
I wouldn't doubt it. Seriously, if I didn't already have 3 other closed headphones... the 1540 would've probably made it to my hands. That graph is basically the X1 with more sub bass. Not sure how the mid bass would affect my sensitive ears though. it is a pretty large bump, and the X1 was fatiguing to me in that aspect.

But dem Alcantaras... soooo comfortable.
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