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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 566

post #8476 of 37467
Thread Starter 
I'm sending the 32ohm back probably tomorrow, and either the 250/600ohm next week. I updated the first post with the differences, though I was a bit more detailed in the last few pages. You may wanna read up the last 5 pages or so, not sure where I started.

The 600ohm is definitely the most refined, but not as bassy (very slightly less bass). The 250ohm has the most bass, and least mids. The 32ohm sounds like the 600ohm, with less refinement, but very, VERY close to the other two, assuming you amp them with as much power as you'd amp the 250ohm. The 32ohm LOVED the E09K.

All three sounded fantastic off the E09K, and all three were within a hair of each other in sound and performance. If you analyze, yes there are slight differences, but to the vast majority, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Its that close, especially on how the 32ohm sounds like the 600ohm. The 250ohm is more refined than the 32ohm, but it has a stronger bass than both, which is noticeable, though very minor.

As far as the E09K, there is only one headphone jack. The volume knob is dead silent when adjusting volume, which wasn't the case on the E9. The E9's small headphone jack had a very high output impedance which sounded noticeably worse than the big jack. They did it to make IEMs have enough volume to play with, but it was detrimental to sound quality. Long story short, don't ever use the small jack on the E9.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/17/12 at 9:33pm
post #8477 of 37467
Thanks MLE,
I just finished reading the 6 pages of new posts since I last visited, and I actually feel kinda guilty asking you to reiterate your points on the DT990s after reading the fine job you did on pulling apart the hairs between the models. I caught myself when I read the bass/mid-high balance scoring numbers thinking "Hmm, sounds like the 600 Ohm is the one for me." I'm also confident that the tube amp will be happiest powering the higher-ohm headphones, though honestly I'd rather have somebody measure it's stats than just believe theoretical stats. But, I'm completely happy with my AKGs, living a dream that had started years ago!

The wait for my hand-made amp is making me froth at the mouth... I'm expecting a new frontier to open with my first specialized headphone amp, and I didn't start small either, but AAAAGH GET HERE! Lol, I KNOW you get me wink.gif


Oooooooooh yes! Sorry, took me a while to remember what I was going to say, lol:
Re: low Ohm amping.
Your findings about the 32 Ohm scaling, and Tyll's analysis, match up with everything I've read since I started posting on Head-Fi. Ignoring headphone sensitivity for a minute, low Ohm models do reach acceptable volumes before high Ohm models (because of lower voltage/gain requirements), but on the whole, the low ohm models need just as much current as the high-ohm ones to get that "Dynamic, lively, full presentation" sound that comes from proper amping. A few Head-Fi'ers actually say low-ohm models are MORE difficult to drive, because the amp ideally would supply lots of current without high voltage, and there are the output ohm-matching challenges.
Seems logical that, for a full-sized headphone too cumbersome to wear on a bus or even airplane, you might as well tailor your home/office reference setup to a powerful desktop amp, refined high-ohm headphone (easy to drive to full potential as long as you have enough voltage), targeted to be driven in the "sweet spot" of the amp's output.
Edited by Evshrug - 10/17/12 at 10:23pm
post #8478 of 37467
Thread Starter 
Its really negligible, the differences, but yeah, the 600ohm is the best, assuming your amp is capable. I kinda like the hint of warmth the 250ohm has over the other two though.
post #8479 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post
Nameless,
OMG your post is full of so many marketing names for features! I agree on blaming Creative for poor naming and over-marketing their products... to someone unversed in their phased-out outdated features, your first paragraph is borderline unreadable. And then in each new model, they think up new names for stuff! Who's gonna remember scout mode?
Also, I'm sorry to hear about your trouble finding a Recon3D buyer. Perhaps you'll have a better shot as it sinks into gamer's minds that the Mixamp is going to be unavailable new, for a good while. I pointed a few people to your head-fi username to PM you about buying it from you. Maybe Creative will invest in a firmware upgrade and make a marketing push to take advantage of Astro's absence? A funny thing I noticed: people seem to think that the Recon3D doesn't offer chat connectivity. Dunno how that got started, but I saw a few people in this thread post that misinformation.

 

Yeah, my mind's kind of numb to all the marketing buzzwords these days. OPL2/3 FM synthesis, "wavetable" MIDI, QSound, A3D, EAX, THX, it's all practically second-nature to me now, which only makes it jarring when you run into people who don't know what the heck you're talking about.

 

As for why genuine OPL3-equipped sound cards are sought after more? This thread might clue you in a bit. Long story short, later Creative cards switched to an emulated OPL3 implementation that sounds a bit off from the real deal (mostly due to harmonics in what are supposed to be pure sine waves), and this really irks the enthusiasts.

 

I don't know how the notion of the Recon3D USB not supporting chat mixing got started; it's one of the notable advantages it has over most non-Mixamp surround processors. Only thing is, I don't need chat mixing with my consoles, so it's a moot advantage over the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1. (Well, maybe I'll need it if I start getting back into Steel Battalion: Line of Contact...yes, people still play that with the help of Xlink Kai.)

post #8480 of 37467
Splitting hairs, maybe, but I do love a warm brunette...
post #8481 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Yeah, my mind's kind of numb to all the marketing buzzwords these days. OPL2/3 FM synthesis, "wavetable" MIDI, QSound, A3D, EAX, THX, it's all practically second-nature to me now, which only makes it jarring when you run into people who don't know what the heck you're talking about.

As for why genuine OPL3-equipped sound cards are sought after more? This thread might clue you in a bit. Long story short, later Creative cards switched to an emulated OPL3 implementation that sounds a bit off from the real deal (mostly due to harmonics in what are supposed to be pure sine waves), and this really irks the enthusiasts.

I don't know how the notion of the Recon3D USB not supporting chat mixing got started; it's one of the notable advantages it has over most non-Mixamp surround processors. Only thing is, I don't need chat mixing with my consoles, so it's a moot advantage over the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1. (Well, maybe I'll need it if I start getting back into Steel Battalion: Line of Contact...yes, people still play that with the help of Xlink Kai.)

So many options, so little time... Well, in my case, too much time really, but I'm trying to use it for bettering my career. Seems like same old Creative sound card story... 2 steps forward, 3 steps backwards, one step sideways, still a clumsy dancer.

Oh, you may as well point out how the Recon3D has a low noise floor too. Does the Tritton processor that comes with the AX720 use Dolby Headphone 2?
post #8482 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

Yeah, my mind's kind of numb to all the marketing buzzwords these days. OPL2/3 FM synthesis, "wavetable" MIDI, QSound, A3D, EAX, THX, it's all practically second-nature to me now, which only makes it jarring when you run into people who don't know what the heck you're talking about.

 

As for why genuine OPL3-equipped sound cards are sought after more? This thread might clue you in a bit. Long story short, later Creative cards switched to an emulated OPL3 implementation that sounds a bit off from the real deal (mostly due to harmonics in what are supposed to be pure sine waves), and this really irks the enthusiasts.

 

I don't know how the notion of the Recon3D USB not supporting chat mixing got started; it's one of the notable advantages it has over most non-Mixamp surround processors. Only thing is, I don't need chat mixing with my consoles, so it's a moot advantage over the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1. (Well, maybe I'll need it if I start getting back into Steel Battalion: Line of Contact...yes, people still play that with the help of Xlink Kai.)


You could keep the Recon3D usb as a backup, but maybe you get lucky on ebay. I know some times I would have to put stuff on ebay when they dont sell here.

post #8483 of 37467

Been playing around with the E7 all day.  It's a mixed bag.  

 

On one hand, I really don't feel like the bass boost adds much when paired with a Mixamp.  As a matter of fact, I can safely say that the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost (clipping aside) is actually stronger than the E7's level 3.  The E7 makes the bass a fair bit punchier but fails to make the overall sound fuller like the Mixamp's bass boost.  Explosions and gunfire on the E7's bass boost aren't giving me the boom I usually get from the Mixamp's.  It's pretty hilarious to turn the Mixamp's bass boost on while running level 3 on the E7 though, lol.

 

On the other hand, the E7's DAC is a ridiculous improvement over my laptop's sound card. Like, major.  There's a huge increase in the clarity of what I'm listening to...I can compare it from going to SD to HD.  Maybe not as dramatic of a leap but the same idea. Been running it on bass boost levels 2 and 3 with no noticed distortion or drowning out of other sounds.  idk, I like it.

 

I'm probably going to send the E7 back to Amazon and pick up an E17.  The E17's further levels of bass boost should do better for gaming (thoughts?) and I've heard it's an improved DAC over the E7 - something I really appreciate now.  Been an interesting experiment regardless.  


Edited by boomer12 - 10/18/12 at 1:23am
post #8484 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer12 View Post

I'm probably going to send the E7 back to Amazon and pick up an E17.  The E17's further levels of bass boost should do better for gaming (thoughts?) and I've heard it's an improved DAC over the E7 - something I really appreciate now.  Been an interesting experiment regardless.  

 

Yeah, as I was reading your post I was about to suggest the same thing. It's probably worth your while researching what frequencies the E7 vs E17 boost, though--I'm just guessing, but since the MixAmp's bass boost makes the sound "fuller", I would suspect it boosts a few of the "low mids" in addition to the lower frequencies, whereas the E7 boosts only the "low" freqs. 

 

Above distinctions between "low" and "low mid" are relative, though.

post #8485 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post

 

Yeah, as I was reading your post I was about to suggest the same thing. It's probably worth your while researching what frequencies the E7 vs E17 boost, though--I'm just guessing, but since the MixAmp's bass boost makes the sound "fuller", I would suspect it boosts a few of the "low mids" in addition to the lower frequencies, whereas the E7 boosts only the "low" freqs. 

 

Above distinctions between "low" and "low mid" are relative, though.

It's tricky to describe.  The E7 boosts specific things (the bass beats in Radical Highway's theme from Sonic Adventure 2 became punchier) but the M4A1 from Modern Warfare 3 (one of the bassier weapons in the game) sounded like a peashooter.  When I engage the Mixamp's bass boost, that gun sounds like a thumping death machine.  I'm hoping the E17 is at least somewhat of an improvement.  But at least one positive thing I can say about the E7 for gaming was that there was no audio clipping, even with bass boost on level 3.  That was my main problem with the Mixamp and if the E17 follows suit, I'll be happy.  Thanks for the input.

 

edit - the Mixamp 5.8's instruction manual describes the bass boost as raising low-end frequencies and simulating a subwoofer effect.


Edited by boomer12 - 10/18/12 at 1:43am
post #8486 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post

 

Yeah, as I was reading your post I was about to suggest the same thing. It's probably worth your while researching what frequencies the E7 vs E17 boost, though--I'm just guessing, but since the MixAmp's bass boost makes the sound "fuller", I would suspect it boosts a few of the "low mids" in addition to the lower frequencies, whereas the E7 boosts only the "low" freqs. 

 

Above distinctions between "low" and "low mid" are relative, though.

 

In my experience the mixamp's boost is one that leans towards affecting the low mids.  This may be a sloppier bass boost then some tighter ones that boost more specific lows with stronger punch/slam, but a broader boomier bass boost does sometimes give off a home-theatery bass effect.  Or at least it can make the overall sound fuller at the expense of a bit looser sounding low end.  The bass boost on the DSS is tighter and affects fewer frequencies with stronger slam, but doesn't fill out the sound much.

post #8487 of 37467
Thread Starter 
The E17's bass boost is a huge improvement over the E7's IMHO, but its a tight boosting, and not a broad range boost. Not sure what the Mixamp's boost is doing. I actually do like the effect it has, when it doesn't distort. Too bad it does, so I leave it off.
post #8488 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


Seems logical that, for a full-sized headphone too cumbersome to wear on a bus or even airplane, you might as well tailor your home/office reference setup to a powerful desktop amp, refined high-ohm headphone (easy to drive to full potential as long as you have enough voltage), targeted to be driven in the "sweet spot" of the amp's output.

Very very insightful now that's using your head. Great Logic!! You would think more would do the same but it seems to defy logic.


Edited by I95North - 10/18/12 at 4:51am
post #8489 of 37467
Thread Starter 
Sigh, I know what I'm going with, with one caveat.... I have to go back to a good amp/dac just so I can stop kidding myself.

I'm gonna keep the DT990/600, and going to buy either the Audio-GD Compass 2, or Audio-GD SA-31 and an ODAC.

I prefer the Compass 2 as it's basically the NFB-5 with a line in, and improved amp, DAC. The SA-31 is an end game amp for me (though so is the Compass 2 to a lesser extent), but it costs as much as the compass 2, doesn't have a DAC, and uses buttons instead of that lovely volume knob.

The SA-31 can power basically anything (has 9.33x the power of the E9K at 600ohms, while the Compass-2 has 2.6x the power of the E9K at 600ohm headphones), and both have a LOT more for lower ohms, as well has having a very low output impedance.

I may be selling the E17 soon, so pm me if interested. If I get the Compass 2, the E17 will be useless to me, and if I get the SA-31, I may want the ODAC.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/18/12 at 8:10am
post #8490 of 37467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Not sure what the Mixamp's boost is doing.

I actually do like the effect it has, when it doesn't distort. Too bad it does, so I leave it off.

 

Like I mentioned before, this can usually be fixed...

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