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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 542

post #8116 of 38800

I want to try my new TBSE Koss with an amp to see how they sound. The only amp I have at this point is a Rotel receiver (RSX-1055) which doesn't have a headphone jack. If I did an audio out to my PX5 DH box will that allow the amp to work its magic or will the decoder kill any power the amp sends its way? I do have a 1/8" to L/R RCA Y cable that I could go straight from my receiver to headphone but it kind of makes me nervous it my blow the headphones..

post #8117 of 38800
The only (and easily acquired) way at the moment to get from DTS -> DH is through a receiver. My harman kardon avr-247 does this with no problems. There are at least 4 other devices that will do this too; JVC/Victor SU-DH1, Pioneer SE-DIR800C, Pioneer SE-DIR800C II, and one other Pioneer model that was a japanese market only (older model than the current DRS3000C model doesn't have a headphone output). Philips had a decoder box that did DH too that stayed in the UK and I don't recall if it supported DTS.
post #8118 of 38800
Thread Starter 
Calpis, what's the DH receiver you have? I wanna see what the next one up with an HDMI input is. I might need one for the Wii-U, seeing as I don't think it will have an optical out. I hope to god it's on the cable like the on the old 360s.
post #8119 of 38800

Mad Lust Envy, check your PM inbox. I found just the thing for you.


The AVR 247 was succeeded by the AVR 254 and AVR 354, which also have Dolby Headphone. It just seems to be the quad-digit Harmon Kardon AVRs that ditched DH for whatever reason.

post #8120 of 38800
I have the 247 and it only has 2 hdmi inputs. If I were you, I'd get at least the 254 since that has 3 hdmi inputs and will also do lossless audio if you ever decided to do a speaker setup. I really want to upgrade to the 254 because I kinda do need the extra hdmi input now and don't want to bother with the hdmi switcher that I have now.
post #8121 of 38800
Thread Starter 
Holy cow, the Wii-U may not even use Dolby or DTS, and convert things to multi-channel PCM. However, nothing is concrete.

This is horrible news to us Dolby Headphone/THX Tru Studio/DSS2 gamers. I hope Nintendo hurries up and brings out the final specs for the system.
post #8122 of 38800

Which Wii-U games were you hoping to play in virtual surround?

post #8123 of 38800
Originally Posted by JerseyTiger View Post

My leaning right now is Q701, Recon3D, Fiio 11 or 10.  I'm a complete noob who has done about 8 hours of reading over the last 2 days to reach this point.  Please offer suggestions that would fit my intent of using the system or reassure me that what I have picked is awesome.  Thank you for any advice.   

Hello JerseyTiger,
I caught up entirely on this thread, but I'm quoting your first post so I remember where you came from and any your major concerns.
FiiO E10 is nice but I don't think it can plug into PS3 (it only uses USB for audio input), and neither FiiO is a surround sound processor like the Recon3D. I'm a personal fan of the Recon3D, sounds great to me, and works with Xbox, PS3, Windows, and Mac. Your needs may vary, your TASTES may vary, but priced between DSS and Mixamp while more versatile that either DOES make it a strong value.
I bought the Q701 two months ago, been using the AD700 before that. I'm of the same taste as you that the beyers don't do it for me... they look like window vents, the red ones pictured recently look particularly cheap and garish, despite red being my fav color. They do look comfy though. The AKG, however, definitely looks like audio gear, and the stormtrooper white with green accents looks real cool in person too! But enough about looks... IMO, I think the AKG has a very natural, believable sound balance. This, for me, is very good. Too much bass or too much treble is too much of a good thing, for me, but others like a sound more exciting than realistic. Nothing wrong with that, either. Just keep in mind, and check the freq graphs on Headroom.com if you don't believe me, the Q701 doesn't really have any freq below 0dB reference, at least not very much.
I have powered my Q701 directly off my iPod 5th gen, Recon3D, and FiiO E5. I can reach acceptable volume levels with all, and in a pinch use the Q701 directly plugged into my sources. Thing is, the treble can sound a bit harsh off the iPod or Recon3D alone (worst offender is the gun on the attack chopper on CoD4, but I may be biased cuz I hate getting killed by those lol). You could start without an extra amp and do fine until you save up for a good one, that's what I'm doing.
This weekend, though, I dusted off the AD700, and honestly felt like it had pretty good synergy with the Recon3D. I turned up the Recon3D's bass boost, and didn't feel like I was missing out at all while playing Metro 2033 for the second time, the treble + all the other ranges were controlled and sweet sounding, and I think the soundstage/positioning was improved over the unamped Q701 too. I really feel like a headphone with the 62 Ohms (of the Q701) and up impedance have a destiny with higher-powered amps, but... but... the 32 Ohm AD700 sounded really good. As is. No double-amping. This troubles my budgeting sense, heh. The 32 Ohm Beyerdynamic may be easy to power too (MLE thinks more amping would help those too), but you're essentially paying more for more bass, less soundstage and a bit worse positioning.

Maybe I just have an exceptional pair of AD700 lol... XD

Also ArdentWing,
You were the one considering DT770 vs AD700, right? And you said something to the effect of "I know I'm not going to enjoy the AD700," without even hearing them. LOL. Well, you probably won't enjoy them if you require a lot of presence and weight to bass, but you make it sound like you expect it would be torture! Far from it, IMO, and it's worth considering how much easier it is to drive the AD700 and add bass boost.
Played some more Metro 2033 before returning it to my friend this weekend, and FWIW I could tell that it was having an easier time being amped via Recon3D alone, than my Q701s. I would also like to point out a specific gaming moment while playing: the first appearance of an "anomaly" was absolutely powerful and impressive! My jaw dropped. I do have a bit of bass boost enabled on my Recon3D, and honestly with this combo I know that the price difference of the Q701 isn't justified. Btw, the Recon3D does have all the needed connectors for chat.
Consider this easy amped and cost duo, and upgrade later if you are absolutely blown away by something you've tested yourself after this: AD700 and some processor (DSS v1 or similar), and a pair of Koss KSC75 for walkabout/warm sound. Really, I'd guess you'll have a hard time justifying paying more money after hearing how good these are.
post #8124 of 38800
Just a thought, though I haven't tried them myself: the AKG K240 studios. Before we had "beats" et al claiming to be used in mixing, these (and Sony MDR-V6) actually WERE used for studio mastering. Are still, I think. They're still 55ohms, but are supposed to have a higher sensitivity for better portable device playback. They're about the same price as AD700, a bit more if you want the MKII version which I believe is different by color and more accessories (including velour earpads). You might think of them as Q701-lite headphones, put the saved money towards a great amp... Just an idea.
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2611&graphID[]=2931&graphID[]=2661&graphID[]=2141 graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2611&graphID[]=2931&graphID[]=2661&graphID[]=2141

Edit: I forget which version of DT990 are graphed by headroom (@headphone.com), except that its not the 600 Ohm version. Kinda annoying that it's the same model number between all the different Ohm ratings, isn't it?

Also of interest, DT770 comparison.

Freq graphs don't tell the whole story (like detail retrieval and refinement, control), but it does raise a few interesting points. The DT770 has less midbass than the DT990 and Q701, you'd think the DT770 would have less mid-bass bleeding over the details, so that shows you that implementation may have a bigger impact than the freq graph shows. It may be giving a hint as to how the DT770 has such good directional imaging accuracy with DH, though. The relative evenness of the AD700 before the sub-bass region may explain why IT is so good with directional cues, it doesn't really have any sounds boosted until you get to some pretty high highs. Note that "perfect human hearing" starts to not perceive bass lower than 20hz, and a small boost at about 40hz ought to bring bass in-line with the rest of the sound sig. I set my Recon3D's bass boost to the 80hz "crossover" setting and bumped it up from there, seems to have worked very well. Alternately, the AD700 is so open I could just hook up a real subwoofer, hahaha.
Edited by Evshrug - 10/8/12 at 12:54am
post #8125 of 38800
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post

Which Wii-U games were you hoping to play in virtual surround?

ALL of them?


That'd be 250ohm and 600ohm. That's more of a driver by driver difference, and not 250 vs 600ohm difference, as no two headphones are exactly the same.

In any case, here's more legit graphs. Headroom is notorious for some messed up graphs (like the D7000).

The Waterfall plots show the extremely clean treble response (though it starts at 200hz, and not 20hz, so it's not the whole frequency range for the CSD plots). The large amount of treble information is actually not something the majority of us would be bothered with as almost no sources go past the 10-12khz range, so all that treble afterwards is inaudible. As stated, the treble is clean and a reduction (like off an E17) would make the DT990 and extremely high quality, balanced if bassy headphone.
post #8126 of 38800
^^^ lol!
To be fair, it's a legit question from people who game on the current gen Wii. The system is clogged by shovelware games, to the point where most people buy the system just for the 1st party games, or for somebody else. Many, including myself, wonder if the new system will also be plagued by super soft-core games, rushed through development so they have a chance to be bought by children or impulse-buyers. I hope that is NOT the case (long live Mario, Zelda, and Metroid!), but if the system is just an oversized 3DS...
Anyway, here's sincerely hoping they make games that merit surround sound.

Re: DT990
Well yes, I'm glad the tolerances are tight, though for someone like you who also loves sub-bass, wouldn't a graph only starting at 200mhz be kinda useless to you? The DT770 is within a similar "headphone/driver variance" tolerance with the AD700 for quite a bit of the freq above 200mhz, and we know they don't sound that close. Whereas, yep, I sure do know that the headroom graphs show a lot higher freqs than I can hear anymore, I'd guess that it would be somewhere around that treble peak in just about every headphone.
Edited by Evshrug - 10/8/12 at 6:20am
post #8127 of 38800
Thread Starter 
Well, the Wii-U is going to cater to all people, instead of to mainly casuals and children. Their launch window lineup looks stronger than any system released prior so far, with lots of games that would typically be on the 360 or PS3. In any case, at least for the foreseeable future, it should have the same games as the 360/PS3 but on a higher level, and probably the entry level for when the PS4/720 come out. I'm just glad they finally went HD, and went with an actual controller as the main controlling device (albeit with a screen). The fact that the Wii was SD (which looked horrible on HD sets) and was mainly all waggle controls, was why the Wii was mainly a casual and non-hardcore gamer console, and didn't interest me much if at all. I had it and almost NEVER touched it. The Wii-U should have some good 3rd party support this time around.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/8/12 at 6:42am
post #8128 of 38800
I am a Battlefield 3 player and i need some suggestions. I want to find a headphone that suit me . Around $100.
I am looking for a comfy(for long time playing), good directionality(so that i can locate my enemies) and have good sound quality. Mic is not necessary.
I am plugging the headphone directly into the motherboard(ASUS P8H11-M), since I don't have a external sound card. 
I found that some headphones may suit me. 


 ATH AD700 

 Steelseries Siberia v2

 Sennheiser HD555


Hope you guys can give me some suggestions


Thanks guys

post #8129 of 38800
Thread Starter 
Not sure if your onboard soundcard does any virtual surround, so I suggest something cheap ($40) like maybe an external soundcard like the


Xonar U3, which has Dolby headphone. If you aren't willing to buy something with virtual surround, most headphones in standard stereo will have very similar directionality from one another, since it all sounds so two dimensional to me. Most left and right directionality. From one ear to the other.

I personally recommend getting something like the Xonar U3 as the TOP priority. Hell, I'd take that and a KSC75 ($15) first, then save up for the Sennheiser if you can't afford the Xonar U3 and a headphone right now..

The Sennheiser 555 (if you can find them for cheap) would be my suggestion. Then do the foam removal mod which is very easy. That should be all you need. The 558 is going for $101 (Like New) off Dahmart, which is even better than the 555, and can have a foam removal mod too.


If not, the AD700, though I personally feel they aren't the least bit comfy, and hate the bass. The pads are soft, and the headphone won't even feel like they are on your head, but that's a problem for me. It has no feeling of being secure and slides all over the place. I hated the fit.

The 555/558 and AD700 do not need any amping, so you're good to go there.

Sadly, Battlefield 3 has good sound quality, but not very good directional cues, so I don't think even a $20000 pair of headphones will help you directional wise.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 10/8/12 at 7:46am
post #8130 of 38800
Sounds good MLE. Launch titles usually aren't a system's best, but a strong start is always a good sign! I really do hope Nintendo continues where Sega fell.

For whatever platform, a fun flight sim game or, even better, space flight sim, would be a fantastic platform for 3D surround sound. I personally think it could see the kind of console renaissance as we saw with FPS games that dominate the scene now, with a great game executed well.
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