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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 407

post #6091 of 37338
Thread Starter 
Anything with Dolby Digital will have Pro Logic II even if it's not advertised (Pro Logic II is just the fall back for when Dolby Digital isn't possible due to 2 channel only outputs). It's hidden in the DD track. And yes, Pro Logic II is the process of turning Pro Logic embedded stereo signal into multi channel surround sound. It's not just ANY stereo signal.

Dolby Headphone is it's own technology that will take in either DD or PLII. PLII isn't built into DH, just as DD isn't...

I used to use Pro Logic II on my old Pioneer surround sound system. Worked like a charm and gave a convincing surround sound cues to my speakers.

If you happen to have a Nintendo Wii and a surround sound, you'll see just how well Pro Logic II works.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 7/1/12 at 10:52pm
post #6092 of 37338
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

I thought the original pro logic had to do with speakers and not headphones....
 

From what I understand, DH is 5.1 mixed back down into stereo with HRTFs to simulate hearing a 5.1/7.1 system.  Pro Logic is either 2 channel signal processed to simulate dolby headphone (sound like it's a 5.1 system), or it actually upconverts the 2 channels into 5.1 channels to be used with a device that's looking for multi-channel audio to decode. 

Dolby trys to use "funny' words to describe "Dolby Headphone" on their website, per their website "Dolby Headphone" uses 2 channels, that Dolby Pro logic can use to "simulate" 7.1 for headphones.

Anyone who make a device with more (newer) Dolby Headphone stuff then this feature I'm sure can still call it "Dolby Headphone".

There are several revisions of Dolby Pro Logic that do more then that i've listed so far.

The Astro Pro Mix-amp can use a newer revision (2009) of the Dolby Pro logic and can easy use the term "Dolby Headphone", heck, why not..

But something else, like a new A/V receiver and say it has "Dolby Headphone", but it could be using an older Dolby Pro logic from the year 2000.

 

As far as I can tell, only "Dolby Virtual Headphone" can start with a true 6-channel audio signal (like on a Movie DVD or 8-channel audio signal (Like Blu-ray disk) and convert it to Dolby Virtual Headphone (2-channel) 7.1 surround sound.

 

So Dolby Pro logic for Speakers can expand from 2-channel or 5.1 channel audio to up to 7.1 for speakers.

And  Dolby Pro logic for Headphones can "simulate" from 2-channels a (faked) 7.1 surround audio feed to headphones.

post #6093 of 37338
Thread Starter 
Sigh, I'm done trying to explain it to you. Making my head hurt.

To ANYONE ELSE: If you have a device with Dolby Headphone and feed it Dolby Digital, you'll send a true surround signal that's converted to 2 channel and sent to your headphones. If you have a device with Dolby headhone and feed it a Pro Logic II signal, you'll send a processed stereo signal that was upmixed to surround then downmixed again for headphone use.

It's that simple.

Think of PLII as the opposite of Dolby Headphone. Instead of packing a surround sound signal to two channels, it is taking a processed 2 channel signal and making it virtual surround for multiple channels. Each channel will then have their own audio cues, like real surround, though not as good.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 7/1/12 at 11:02pm
post #6094 of 37338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Anything with Dolby Digital will have Pro Logic II even if it's not advertised (Pro Logic II is just the fall back for when Dolby Digital isn't possible due to 2 channel only outputs). It's hidden in the DD track. And yes, Pro Logic II is the process of turning Pro Logic embedded stereo signal into multi channel surround sound. It's not just ANY stereo signal.
Dolby Headphone is it's own technology that will take in either DD or PLII. PLII isn't built into DH, just as DD isn't...
I used to use Pro Logic II on my old Pioneer surround sound system. Worked like a charm and gave a convincing surround sound cues to my speakers.
If you happen to have a Nintendo Wii and a surround sound, you'll see just how well Pro Logic II works.

"PLII isnt built into DH"

Did you read up on Dolby's website, Dolby's definition of "Dolby Headphone" only includes Dolby Pro logic and only it's use when used for headphones, not Dolby Digital.

Dolby lets anyone use the term Dolby Headphone to hid those Dolby products that are more limted then others (like receivers).

post #6095 of 37338
Thread Starter 
Jesus man...
Quote:
Dolby Headphone Technical Features

Compatible with native 5.1-channel content

Transforms two-channel (stereo) content into surround sound when combined with Dolby Pro Logic® II

Delivers 7.1-channel surround experience from content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic IIz

What part are you NOT understanding?

The first point = DOLBY DIGITAL. That is a Dolby site. Native 5.1 in their terms IS Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, etc. It will not do DTS because it's not a Dolby encoding. They should clarify this, since native 5.1 comes in more flavors than just Dolby.

The second point = Pro Logic II, because if you are sending a stereo signal (pre-processed with Pro Logic II), it will go that route. It's right there. WHEN COMBINED with Pro Logic II. Again, they should've clarified for easier understanding. Perhaps they should've said "from content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic II", just as they did in the next point. Good examples of stereo content processed with Pro Logic II are Nintendo Wii games and some PS2 games.

The third point is the newer Pro Logic...if you have a source that is outputting Pro Logic IIz.

Not enough facepalms in the world...

Dolby Headphone is a DECODER. Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II are what's ENCODED in the content (i.e. DVD, games, Blu-rays) we're listening to... unless you wanna debate that these devices are both encoding and decoding which is just...stupid. Common sense really.




What I wanna know is about non-Dolby Headphone virtual surround processors like the DSS2 and Sony's own form of virtual surround, and if they work with all forms of multi-channel audio, or if they are locked to a few. I'd personally pay a logical amount of money for a non-PC related device that decodes DTS, Dolby, barebones multi-channel audio, as long as it's good or better than Dolby Headphone.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 7/2/12 at 12:00am
post #6096 of 37338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Jesus man...
Quote:
Dolby Headphone Technical Features
Compatible with native 5.1-channel content
Transforms two-channel (stereo) content into surround sound when combined with Dolby Pro Logic® II
Delivers 7.1-channel surround experience from content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic IIz
What part are you NOT understanding?
The first point = DOLBY DIGITAL. That is a Dolby site. Native 5.1 in their terms IS Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, etc. It will not do DTS because it's not a Dolby encoding. They should clarify this, since native 5.1 comes in more flavors than just Dolby.
The second point = Pro Logic II, because if you are sending a stereo signal (Processed with pro Logic II), it will go that route. It's right there. WHEN COMBINED with Pro Logic II. Again, they should've clarified for easier understanding. Perhaps they should've said "from content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic II", just as they did in the next point.
The third point is the newer Pro Logic...if you have a source that is outputting Pro Logic IIz.
Not enough facepalms in the world...
Dolby Headphone is a DECODER. Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II are what's ENCODED in what we're listening to... OMGWTFLOL
edit: To add, IF a Dolby Headphone device only decoded Pro Logic II, then both the Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II settings on the source would sound exactly the same. I and quite a few others can assure you, they do NOT.

Dolby Headphone (Dolby Pro logic) can work off 2-channels of a 5.1 channel, that's can be called "compatible".

Compatible with native 5.1 channel content, which could really say will still play simple 2-channel stereo of any native 5.1 channel content.

"Compatible with Dolby Digital 5.1" is what it would say if what you said is true. using the "native" does not say, will not work with DTS, you would think Dolby would be more clear.

Dolby Digital (AC-3) 5.1 surround defined by Dolby uses all 5.1 channels, and clearly state it, "Dolby Headphone" dances around with word games.

You really think the people that take care of the web pages are going to not clearly define a feature, that they do well on their other web pages?

Modem audio can store (DVD, Blu-ray, hard drive) and pass along 6-channel and 8-channel audio easily (HDMI, Optical) why would a 6 or 8 channel audio need to be pre-process down (compressed) to Dolby Pro Logic 2-channel? Would not Dolby Digial Live be better? you going to lose a lot of audio quality compressing using Pro logic. I think the people at Dolby would have figured that out.

I really can not figure out why anyone would compress 6 or 8 moden audio channels audio down to Dolby Pro logic 2-channel?

DVDs have been out for 15 years and can hold 6 channels of Dolby Digital audio, why would anything need to compress audio with Dolby Logic 2-channel audio?

You said that Dolby Pro Logic can process Dolby Digital (Native 5.1), so what use is there for compressed Dolby Pro logic 2-channel for the passed 15 years?


Edited by PurpleAngel - 7/2/12 at 1:30am
post #6097 of 37338
Thread Starter 
336

I give up.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 7/2/12 at 12:55am
post #6098 of 37338

DH can process both stereo and Dolby Digital 5/7.1. But using DH for a stereo source is lame and should never be done. DH can be used to process any sound going into it but is only truly utilized when getting a Dolby Digital surround signal.

 

I personally have my xbox360 hooked up to a Harman Kardon avr-254 receiver via hdmi and I do get to use DH at its fullest. I also have my pc connected to it via optical and can turn on DH while listening to flac with foobar but who in their right mind would do that. As long as it's stated in the manual or has the DH logo on the receiver itself then there should be no doubt that you're getting a real DH experience when fed the right source..

post #6099 of 37338

*sighs* Didn't think it would get that long and protracted.

 

Mad Lust Envy is right on the money. Dolby Pro Logic (II) is a means of encoding/matrixing extra surround channels into two analog channels. It's not as ideal as Dolby Digital due to crosstalk (which happens to any signal that can't be kept discrete from another, especially analog ones), but there are decoders that can extract them from PLII-processed sources.

 

Emphasis on that last bit: Pro Logic II is NOT plain stereo. It'll sound like stereo if you don't have a decoder that supports it, but the cues are there in the signal. I know due to testing some of my GCN/Wii games (which generally use PLII as a rule) with my SU-DH1.

post #6100 of 37338

Hi!

I'm looking for advice on which headphones (headsets) to choose. I'm going to buy ASUS Xonar DG, and I'm torn between CAL! + clip on mic (Zalman probably) and Siberia V2.
Since Siberia V2 has as many lovers as haters, and only reviews I've found are 'gaming portal's" or "pc hardware's" ones (which haters impute that they're are paid for), I don't know what to believe.
Mad Lust Envy wrote that V2 version is known to be 'pretty good', so maybe this headset is good enough to compete with CAL. (I had V1 ver for about two years, they were super comfy, but I broke them while snowboarding ;( ). I also liked one side wire (vs. CAL both sides).

 

I haven't tried CAL! on my head yet.
I can get Siberia V2 or CAL! with Zalman for about 70$.

 

 

(I read whole guide, it's great. Unfortunately, most of the headphones are out of my budget, or are unavailable in my country.)


Please, I'll be grateful for any suggestion.

 

---

cbb


Edited by canbebetter - 7/2/12 at 7:45am
post #6101 of 37338
Thread Starter 
CALs are super comfy. The Siberia V2 should also be a dream to wear, though not sure they'll stack up to the CAL in sound quality.
post #6102 of 37338

In case my question got trampled by that conversation I'll ask again, does anyone know how the AKG K550s perform for gaming?

post #6103 of 37338
So, I'm about to take the jump and purchase a pair of Q701s, and I'm very excited. Look at the freq. graphs comparing it to my current headphones... It's like it takes the best of everything I have and puts them into one, while the finesse at each Freq is assuredly more refined.
[=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=2661&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=2591&graphID%5B%5D=1823][/]
It takes the modestly warm PX 100 bass, the balanced mids of the Etymotic ER6i, and the extended highs of the Audio Technica AD700! This will be my most consistent and balanced headphone ever, along with other goodies!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crzycuyler View Post

In case my question got trampled by that conversation I'll ask again, does anyone know how the AKG K550s perform for gaming?
Can't say in your case for sure, but I didn't want you to feel ignored wink.gif
The few impressions I've read on the AKG K550 have been very positive, you should search for their impressions for sound quality. Especially since this thread is mostly about headphones tested and compared by the OP, and he hasn't heard those.

So here's a little exercise Going off what MLE said as a general rule of thumb. First, consider the closed-headphone fact. In very rare cases do closed headphones have any appreciable soundstage, one notable exception to that is MLE's Denon D7000, which seems to be a bit of a house specialty.
Second, look at this freq graph: [=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=3571&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=283][/]
Based on that, these are probably more "fun" headphones than competitive, with pretty strong sub-bass which complicates the slightly recessed mids. The treble spike may help you hear a grenade pin, but the overall signature would make sound whoring for footsteps and bullet ZIP! sounds buried beneath the bass. Take all that with a grain of salt however... Imaging and direction may be good or bad (probably good from AKG @ this price point), and the +5 bass boost is far from aggressive or "Bass MONSTERRRR!" You could do worse, but there are some great KNOWN headphones around the $300 price level that might be a more reliably competitive buy.

YMMV, good luck!
post #6104 of 37338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

So, I'm about to take the jump and purchase a pair of Q701s, and I'm very excited. Look at the freq. graphs comparing it to my current headphones... It's like it takes the best of everything I have and puts them into one, while the finesse at each Freq is assuredly more refined.
[=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=2661&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=2591&graphID%5B%5D=1823][/]
It takes the modestly warm PX 100 bass, the balanced mids of the Etymotic ER6i, and the extended highs of the Audio Technica AD700! This will be my most consistent and balanced headphone ever, along with other goodies!
Can't say in your case for sure, but I didn't want you to feel ignored wink.gif
The few impressions I've read on the AKG K550 have been very positive, you should search for their impressions for sound quality. Especially since this thread is mostly about headphones tested and compared by the OP, and he hasn't heard those.
So here's a little exercise Going off what MLE said as a general rule of thumb. First, consider the closed-headphone fact. In very rare cases do closed headphones have any appreciable soundstage, one notable exception to that is MLE's Denon D7000, which seems to be a bit of a house specialty.
Second, look at this freq graph: [=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=3571&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=283][/]
Based on that, these are probably more "fun" headphones than competitive, with pretty strong sub-bass which complicates the slightly recessed mids. The treble spike may help you hear a grenade pin, but the overall signature would make sound whoring for footsteps and bullet ZIP! sounds buried beneath the bass. Take all that with a grain of salt however... Imaging and direction may be good or bad (probably good from AKG @ this price point), and the +5 bass boost is far from aggressive or "Bass MONSTERRRR!" You could do worse, but there are some great KNOWN headphones around the $300 price level that might be a more reliably competitive buy.
YMMV, good luck!

 

I do not play any competitive first person shooters. I play games like Skyrim, Fallout 3, StarCraft, Diablo... I want to be more fully immersed. Is that the "fun" factor? The D7000 sounds impressive. Isn't a headphone that gives good directional feel also an immersive set? It would allow you to be more fully immersed. Am I wrong?  

post #6105 of 37338
Quote:
Originally Posted by crzycuyler View Post

I do not play any competitive first person shooters. I play games like Skyrim, Fallout 3, StarCraft, Diablo... I want to be more fully immersed. Is that the "fun" factor? The D7000 sounds impressive. Isn't a headphone that gives good directional feel also an immersive set? It would allow you to be more fully immersed. Am I wrong?  
You really ought to read the first post, it is up to date and explains a lot. I was saying "Fun" vs. "Competitive." Many things can make gaming immersive, sound and directional soun is part of a greater whole. So you're partly right. Some of it is personal preference, like in my case I think it's cool when you hear a sound that you aren't sure came from the headphone or something in your room. To others immersion = exciting sound, where things are boosted and the visual/audio special effects are impossible to ignore.

Skyrim and Fallout are about as "Immersive" as games get presently, though I would say Starcraft and Diablo are definitely competitive games (even if you're just competing with the game). What kind of headphones do you have now? Have you experienced Dolby Headphone to simulate surround sound, and does that interest you? Are you looking to buy new headphones? What is your price budget? You may be able to get more immersive sound by buying something other than a new headphone, and all the info on the first page of this thread (starting with the Astro Mixamp, though I use my receiver for Dolby Headphone) is the best place to start narrowing things down.

The Denon D7000 usually retails for about $1000 US, for your information. I have just bought the pinnacle of my headphone collection, the AKG Q701. I see it as quite possibly the peak quality headphone I'll get while my ears are good, any further audio dalliances will probably be amps and floorstanding speakers down the line.
Edited by Evshrug - 7/2/12 at 3:39pm
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