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Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (3/18/2016: MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1 Added) - Page 228

post #3406 of 37427
Thread Starter 
Just FYI, the Asus soundcard rated at 80MW@600hms uses a similar amp section as the E9, so a dekstop amp isn't necessary for the DT990/600. I heard it might actually a little better than the E9.
post #3407 of 37427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riku540 View Post

If there is a way to get virtual surround through a proper line out then I don't know anyone that is aware of it. I don't know the specifics, but it is my understanding that DSP is tied into the process where amplification is performed (in this case, just a standard headphone jack is still considered an amp, though a weak one) and therefore impossible to get such a signal through a line out as proper line outs bypass all other processes in order to pass on the purest and cleanest possible signal. If you do find out otherwise please share.


 

As long as I'm not confusing terms here- the X-Fi cards can output CMSS-3D via the RCA jacks as well as the optical. I currently have the X-Fi's RCA jacks feeding my Lyr. Aren't the RCA's line-out?



Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post

Given the choice which one do you prefer? I would be interested to hear what someone experienced with both Dolby hp and cmss3d has to say about how they compare. 

 

I just played around with a few games and I did find that cmss3d sounded really good in Stalker clear sky, that was a nice step up. I still say that its a big step down in SS3 BFE.



 



Not sure yet. I just barely got the X-Fi card. I'll let you know when I have some more experience with it.

post #3408 of 37427
Thread Starter 
RCA can also be pre-amp outs...
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/21/12 at 9:54pm
post #3409 of 37427

Isn't the purpose of a preamp to bring a signal up to line out?


Edited by Rebel975 - 1/21/12 at 11:07pm
post #3410 of 37427

Creative's Recon3D looks like one to watch.  $130 MSRP, works with consoles as well as PCs, appears to only need USB on PC.  It comes with a 360 mic cord appears to support voice chat on PS3.  Might have less hiss.  I say that about all such things, but this time I actually kind of have a reason to say it this time.  

post #3411 of 37427
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

Isn't the purpose of a preamp to bring a signal up to line out?


From my understanding, a line out is a signal in its purest form. A pre-amp is a signal tied in directly with the amp portion of the device.

For example, the E9 has a line out and a pre-amp out. The Pre-amp out can be controlled by the volume knob on the E9. The line out can't.

Hence, this is why we can consider the Mixamp as a pre-amp to another amp when powering hard to drive cans.

Not sure how the RCA out works on those soundcards, as soundcards don't have a volume knob, lol. I would ASSUME, that IF on the hardware sound settings, the volume control functions with the RCA... then it isn't a true line out.

As for the Creative Recond 3D... hmm, if it works on consoles.. I may have to get it and see howit compares to Dolby Headphone.

Honestly, they just need to implement binaural audio, which would trump all these DSPs. Binaural sounds more realistic than DH and has vertical positioning.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/22/12 at 12:08am
post #3412 of 37427
Fwiw, I play skyrim on PC, sometimes in stereo (on speakers), sometimes in DH via MixAmp + DT 880. It does not sound like a basement. I *think* it sounds a bit thinner but I might be looking for a difference in SQ; in any case, the game is still very playable, the setup doesn't make audio distracting, and in a few instances it's helped me pinpoint enemies when skulking around caves.
post #3413 of 37427

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phos View Post

Creative's Recon3D looks like one to watch.  $130 MSRP, works with consoles as well as PCs, appears to only need USB on PC.  It comes with a 360 mic cord appears to support voice chat on PS3.  Might have less hiss.  I say that about all such things, but this time I actually kind of have a reason to say it this time.  


I've had my eye on that device for a while, but the price is a bit too high for my liking. I'm wondering how the Sound Core3D over USB compares to a genuine X-Fi EMU20k1/EMU20k2 APU in terms of PC gaming features, and how well whatever they're using now (they sure aren't calling it CMSS-3D Headphone; maybe it's THX TruStudio Pro Surround now?) compares to the existing solutions.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post
Honestly, they just need to implement binaural audio, which would trump all these DSPs. Binaural sounds more realistic than DH and has vertical positioning.


That would make me happy like you'd never believe, and in a sense, CMSS-3D Headphone already does this with PC games that use DirectSound3D and OpenAL. They just tell the sound card driver where the sounds are in 3D space, and they're processed binaurally.

 

Of course, that doesn't help console gamers one bit, and even new PC games use software audio engines that pre-mix for 7.1 at the most, with zero binaural mixing options because to people who don't know any better, headphones = stereo (one-dimensional left-right panning only)...and sadly, those people are responsible for FMOD and Microsoft's XAudio2 + X3DAudio APIs, used in most of the games I encounter these days.

 

If we could get FMOD and the XAudio APIs to support binaural audio mixing (and to a lesser extent, the Miles Sound System), we'd have pretty much the whole game industry supporting binaural audio by default, no need for hardware DSPs to approximate it, PC and console alike.

 

Maybe we should start lobbying them all?

post #3414 of 37427
Thread Starter 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkunPQMhN4

I posted this before. Though it says Dolby Headphone, it ISN'T. Its binaural. Meaning ANYONE can listen to this, just put on headphones and play.

The vid showcases how well rear and vertical sounds work, though the front sounds didn't sound right. They sounded over the head.

In any case, though this isn't dolby headphone, it does give you an idea as to how it sounds like. There's no way basic stereo can ever top the positioning a virtual space like DH, and binaural can provide.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/22/12 at 1:20am
post #3415 of 37427

Isn't the recon3D priced similarly to the mixamp?  Thought it was 130 as well. Everything you need is the box if that makes a difference. 

post #3416 of 37427
Thread Starter 
I see the listing on Amazon. Tempted, but it definitely looks PC oriented, while consoles are secondary.

I only care about one thing: how it compares to Dolby Headphone in terms of positional cues, mostly front/rear.

Edit: Great, now my broke arse is considering buying it to compare. I've read its better than DH in positioning. ARGH...must...have it.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/22/12 at 1:43am
post #3417 of 37427

Different people hear things differently, but to me CMSS-3D is better than Dolby Headphone and THX TruStudio.

 

THX TruStudio being the worst, it literally just sounds like that "bathroom" or "basement" EAX effect you see all the time, to me. Dolby Headphone is OK to me, but I don't like its positioning that much, it never felt very precise with the Essence STX. It's hard to explain, but the moment I tried a properly set up Creative Titanium HD with CMSS-3D the difference was noticeable straight away.

 

DH with the Essence STX to me felt like I was wearing headphones - it was definitely better than pure stereo audio, but discerning front sounds from rear sounds was difficult. Because of this, pretty much all sounds at 10:30, 1:30, 4:30 and 7:30 (I'm referring to positions on a clock, just in case anyone gets confused) were difficult to pin point as well.

 

Then I got a Titanium HD, and positional audio to me felt perfect. It didn't feel like I was listening to headphones when I was playing, it felt like all the sounds completely surrounded me, there were no "holes" where it was difficult to tell where anything was coming from.

 

So was the problem Dolby Headphone, is the Essence STX poor at imaging or am I just different than most other people in this thread? Who knows. Unfortunately, anyone who wants to know which method is better for gaming is just going to have to try it out for themselves.

 

Also, make sure you set up your games and Windows audio settings correctly when using CMSS-3D - you want to make sure Windows and the game you're playing are using 5.1 surround sound, then turn on CMSS-3D and it'll use all those channels for positional audio in your headphones.

 

With the Titanium HD I can actually listen to music with CMSS-3D on and it still sounds great. It doesn't make it sound any worse to my ears as the effect is fairly subtle with music; it just ends up being a different presentation of the music. Dolby Headphone I find OK with music too, definitely listenable but less subtle than CMSS-3D. For the most part, though, I prefer to stick to stereo for music, even with the Titanium HD. The only DSP that I felt made music (and games) sound terrible was THX TruStudio.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, NamelessPFG is correct when he says the latest games don't benefit CMSS-3D all that much. I can believe that games that use Direct3D or OpenAL are actually binaural with CMSS-3D, as that's what it sounds like, but newer games like BF3 have positional audio that pales in comparison. It's still better than stereo and I believe it's still better than DH on the STX, though.


Edited by Arnotts - 1/22/12 at 1:46am
post #3418 of 37427
Thread Starter 
I would LOVE to try CMSS 3D, but because I'm a console gamer, I don't have that luxury.

I have stated hundreds of times, my testing is purely based off CONSOLE gaming. I can't recommend something I have never tried, so CMSS 3D is notgoing to be something I talk about, at least until (if) they make it for consoles.

DH is picky with the headphones you use with it, as well as the GAME you're playing. For example, I could never get great positional cues with the DT880, but perfect cues with the K701. Some games have terrible implementation of DH that it would make me dismiss it completely if it weren't for other games. Hell, BF3 doesn't do much for me in terms of positional audio the way MW2 does. SQ is better on BF3, but virtual surround is better on MW2.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/22/12 at 1:52am
post #3419 of 37427


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I see the listing on Amazon. Tempted, but it definitely looks PC oriented, while consoles are secondary.
I only care about one thing: how it compares to Dolby Headphone in terms of positional cues, mostly front/rear.
Edit: Great, now my broke arse is considering buying it to compare. I've read its better than DH in positioning. ARGH...must...have it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I would LOVE to try CMSS 3D, but because I'm a console gamer, I don't have that luxury.
 

 

Now I'm confused :o. Which '3d audio' are you talking about on the first quote if not cmss 3d ? anyway i hope you get to test recon3D.. I have yet to do my final desicion on which equipment ill buy.
 

On a side note; Been playing+listening to music on my 20€ speakers for 6 years. Now I really need to make up for it with good set of cans : P .

 


Edited by Mavekovis - 1/22/12 at 3:44am
post #3420 of 37427

I've been gaming in stereo ever since I ditched my razer barracuda for AD700's almost 3 years ago.  I have never experienced a hard pan in any game in 3 years time.  People are either using horrible headphones, or inferior DAC/soundcards.  

 

I play PC games and my HRT Music Streamer II+ > FiiO e9 > Q701's will destroy any dolby headphone setup in terms of audio quality and positioning.  I've use DH and CMSS3d and all they do is destroy the quality of your sound.  Sure it's great to get a sense of footsteps behind you, but that won't help you when you can't hear them because the sound is so bad.  

 

If you're serious about audio quality on PC games you have to get your DAC out of the PC case.  It's too noisy in there with all the electricity moving around.  

 

Going from the AD700 to the Q701's has been another revelation for me.  I'm hearing sounds in games I've played for years that I never heard until now, and on top of that I can actually hear up and down much better now.  

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